Older cubers discussions

SenorJuan said:
JohnnyR:"I use CFOP, full OLL and PLL. Which alg set should I be moving onto now ?"
I'm sure others will have ideas about LL alg alternatives.
I would say there's potential to reduce your times from your current 20s by improving what you currently do.
The 'F2L' stage offers lots of intellectual challenge if you want that - using empty slots, reducing cube rotations, filling slots from multiple angles.
Then there's your cross. If it's pretty good, then Extended-Cross might be worth considering. (my cross isn't that hot, so I've never even tried XCross, hence I can't really offer any specific tips).
What I wouldn't recommend trying is any kind of colour-neutral technique.
Click to expand...

I feel that my cross is reasonable and has been improving of late. I haven't spent a lot of time with XCross. On the occasions that I spot a pair during inspection I usually end up messing my solve up completely trying to think of a way of preserving that while doing my cross. The Xcrosses that I have had have been a complete fluke.

As for F2L... I noticed that I use the same moves to pair pieces all the time and some of them involved cube rotations but it's difficult to get out of habits when you have a timer running, which for me is most of the time. I know the answer is to turn off the timer and do slow solves, however after a short while I want to see how I'm doing against the clock again.

Of late I've been concentrating of look ahead quite actively and when I get it right I get times in the low teens, having just had a 12.99 10 minutes ago. I've found that look ahead has been the cause of the biggest jump in time improvement .. .when it works :)

edit: My 12.99s solve reconstructed ... (which looking at it again could have been done many ways which I tried afterwards and none gave me a PLL skip :-) )

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=F2_D_...R_U_R-_U-_f-_U-_F_//_oll_(pll_skip) U_//_auf

mafergut said:
Congratulations @MarcelP !!! I can't even imagine the level of nerves I would have if I ever go to my 1st competition.
@JohnnyReggae if you are thinking about ZZ, maybe COLL would be a nice next step in alg learning (it would be handy for ZZ OH and 2H and for big cubes also) but I agree that there are lots of things that can be improved in F2L, cross, etc.
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I've seen COLL mentioned a few times as an alg progression after OLL/PLL. Seeing that it could be used for ZZ I think I may look in that direction more actively.

phreaker said:
asmallkitten's videos on ZZ are quite good, IMHO.

Once you get past learning EOLine, ZZ is fun. Of course that's a HUGE hurdle. I'm still really learning it after months of practice.
Click to expand...

I've just downloaded his video tutorials off YouTube so that I can spend time offline going through them. Busy with part 2 atm.

At the moment I get the EOLine, but the EO that goes with that is going to need some more work.
 
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Congrats on joining the organizers club @MarcelP, about handling nerves, I think @Selkie nails it, focus on doing Cross and first pair slow and after that let the solve flow. You have to deliberately do it, if not, the nerves will take over and control your solve.

@mafergut, if you ever come to a competition (You'll have a chance again in Madrid Province in late october) just register to a couple of "I don't care" events, that will help lots with your nerves if any of them are prior to 3x3. In my first comp it was 2x2
 
Tried some timed Hoya solves on my lunch break. Started nicely then a single PB turned out to be a DNF followed by a nasty 3 min solve so the average went out the window but progress is being made. PLL recognition needs work.

I had 5 mins left of my lunch so did 6 quick 3x3 solves and broke my AO5 twice. 4x4 really helps lookahead.
 
JohnnyReggae said:
I've just downloaded his video tutorials off YouTube so that I can spend time offline going through them. Busy with part 2 atm.

At the moment I get the EOLine, but the EO that goes with that is going to need some more work.
Click to expand...

EO is far more important than the line. More than once I've inserted the line backwards and it is M2 U2 M2 to fix. ;).
 
mark49152 said:
Things are improving as my hands get used to being more accurate, and feeling and responding to those little catches before they become locks. I now have my rolling ao12 under 6 minutes. It's a nice cube and I prefer it to the AoShi.
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The spring swap is definitely worth doing. I was a good 20 seconds slower before doing it. Can turn as rough as you want after that. Just yknow... be careful during the swap itself... this double Yuxin explosion added almost an hour to the process.

CUCiwlk.jpg
 
Chree said:
The spring swap is definitely worth doing. I was a good 20 seconds slower before doing it. Can turn as rough as you want after that. Just yknow... be careful during the swap itself... this double Yuxin explosion added almost an hour to the process.

CUCiwlk.jpg
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... That terrifies me :/ How does your 5x5 feel now? I really like my Yuxin 5x5 exactly as it is, I'd hate to mess it up to make my already good 6x6 a little better.
 
earth2dan said:
... That terrifies me :/ How does your 5x5 feel now? I really like my Yuxin 5x5 exactly as it is, I'd hate to mess it up to make my already good 6x6 a little better.
Click to expand...

The 5x5 is definitely slower with the 6x6 springs in it. And it doesn't necessarily feel more stable, either, since it was plenty stable before. Luckily, the Yuxin 5x5 wasn't my main, otherwise this swap would've been hard on my heart. So if it IS your main... maybe consider getting new 6x6 hardware somewhere else. You might be able to use 4x4 hardware, actually. I've seen some people say that using Yuxin 4x4 springs also works. Those might even be the same springs as they used in the 5x5 anyway.

I will say, however, the 6x6 is more than just "a little" better afterwards. Out of the box, the outer layers were really loose, prone to jamming, and popped like crazy. Meanwhile, the inner layers were annoyingly slow... a tell-tale sign of springs that are too strong. After the swap, the tensions feel a lot more even on all layers. I've lost a teeny bit of inner slice cutting, but that's not that big of a deal on big cubes anyway. But jamming on the outer layers is gone, and I haven't popped yet. This will almost definitely replace the Aoshi as my main. I haven't even lubed it yet. I'm still in the "break in' phase.
 
I may be wrong, but I'll give my opinion anyway, which is based on reason rather than experience.

I don't see how spring swaps can make a significant difference on a cube where the springs move through such a tiny range of motion. Sure I can pull the corners out a little on my 6x6, but when pulling the edges or layers evenly there is virtually no movement. The puzzle has to be almost tightened to the limit just to stay together.

On the other hand, because it has to be so tight just to stay together, tiny adjustments to the screws, even of 1/8 turn, make a big difference.

I would suggest that after a spring swap it's not the springs that make the difference, but the different adjustment after the screws were put back in.

As I said, I might be wrong because I haven't tried it myself, and I don't intend to either :).
 
@Chree My Yuxin 5x5 is sort of my co-main. It is my office 5x5 and sees a lot of action here. I can't see myself swapping it's springs out, I like it too much. After tightening up my 6x6 I've had minimal issues with lockups, though it is pretty tight. I may consider changing the springs if I can find them somewhere else, but I doubt I'll go down that road until I hit my next 6x6 plateau. For now, I'm quite enjoying the rapid rate of improvement :)

@mark49152 Spring changes can definitely make a big difference in how a puzzle feels and performs. It's all about the resistance offered by the strength of the spring. A loose spring, that has been tightened down almost all the way is still a loose spring. By tightening it you've limited it's range of motion, but it still doesn't offer a lot of resistance within that range of motion. A tight spring can offer a wide range of motion, but require much more effort to compress it to it's limit. Both have their benefits in different scenarios. In this case, a looser spring allows you to tighten it and limit the range of motion to mitigate the lockups, while still requiring minimal effort to compress the spring over that limited range of motion. This allows the inner layers to move more freely. With tight springs, if you tighten it down to mitigate the lockups, you make the puzzle more difficult to turn, especially the middle layers because it is offering a much higher resistance to cover that limited range of motion.

I've never found spring swaps to be worth it for me with 3x3, but they can make a big difference in big cubes.
 
earth2dan said:
I've never found spring swaps to be worth it for me with 3x3, but they can make a big difference in big cubes.
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Interesting, that's counter-intuitive, to me. I would have expected it the other way around. Anyhow, I think the major problem with my cube is not the springs but the lack of skill in the user :).
 
mark49152 said:
Anyhow, I think the major problem with my cube is not the springs but the lack of skill in the user :).
Click to expand...
Oh yes, I'm working on this myself :). I was having a lot of trouble with lockups and popping center pieces at first. I think the combination of tightening the screws and focusing more on accurate turning has made a big difference for me. For me, the Yuxin 6x6 is great as is. Even if the spring swap could make it better, I'm going to focus on improving the performance of it's user before I worry too much about improving the performance of the puzzle ;)

Also, I find now that I put a lot less time into modding/lubing my puzzles than I used to. I used to file down edges, swap out parts and experiment with all sorts of different lubes. I spent a whole weekend once fully modding an old shengshou 5x5. It turned out great, and felt much better after the mod, but didn't make much difference to my times. I know now that, at my current skill level, I stand to gain a lot more by just practicing and learning.
 
Wow @earth2dan , that was probably one of the best explanations of the benefits of springs I've ever heard.

And yes, @mark49152, springs swaps can make a huge difference, though I have to agree... it doesn't SEEM like it should be that much of a difference. The change is felt much more around the pieces closest to the core, ie. the middle layers. With less force pushing the pieces together, the whole cube speeds up. You can also look at it this way: since there is already so little clearance in those pieces anyway, it doesn't take much change in spring length to create a substantial difference in pressure, and thus: feel. Plus, there are always 2 springs per axis, so any one swap creates that difference x2.

A shengshou 6x6 was practically unusable without a spring swap. And a SS Mini 7x7 went from "pretty good" to "absolutely incredible" after a spring swap. This Yuxin 6x6 job was the 3rd spring swap I've ever done. Though probably the least dramatic change, it still took me from "wanting to throw it in the trash" to "wanting to main with it".
 
Chree said:
A shengshou 6x6 was practically unusable without a spring swap. And a SS Mini 7x7 went from "pretty good" to "absolutely incredible" after a spring swap. This Yuxin 6x6 job was the 3rd spring swap I've ever done. Though probably the least dramatic change, it still took me from "wanting to throw it in the trash" to "wanting to main with it".
Click to expand...
What springs did you put in your SS 6x6 and mini 7x7? My SS 6x6 has been a paperweight since the day it arrived. I really like the size and feel of the mini 7x7, but I do struggle with the inner layers.
 
I installed a set of Dayan 3x3 springs for each. Apparently, Dayan springs also help the Moyu Aoshi, but my Aoshi was just good enough that I didn't think it was necessary.

The SS 6x6 will still pop afterwards, though. It's just not enough to salvage it altogether. But I was at least able to compete with it once, back in the day, rather than use an original V-Cube :-P
 
Chree said:
I installed a set of Dayan 3x3 springs for each. Apparently, Dayan springs also help the Moyu Aoshi, but my Aoshi was just good enough that I didn't think it was necessary.

The SS 6x6 will still pop afterwards, though. It's just not enough to salvage it altogether. But I was at least able to compete with it once, back in the day, rather than use an original V-Cube :p
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Cool. I doubt I'll ever touch the SS 6x6 again, It's been outclassed. Though I'd like to make my mini 7x7 better. The new AoFu GT is really nice, but I still prefer the slightly smaller profile of the SS mini. I've got a few Dayan hardware sets in my cube drawer... maybe...
 
mark49152 said:
Changing the subject from springs, I just smashed my 6x6 single PB: 5.09. Best by 17 seconds but what I'm most pleased about is how close it is to the UK cut of 5 mins. Gives me hope I will get a mean one day.
Click to expand...

Sounds probable. I got a pretty good 6x6 single today too: my second sub-8:00, but at 7:40.79 missed my pb by 1.20 seconds. :-( Funny thing is it even had both outer wing parity and PLL parity. I'd like to say I'll catch up someday, but realistically the odds are not in my favor.
 
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