AUF before PLL?

[TheSilverBeluga]

Some of my PLL algorithms (A-perms in particular) are quite awkward to execute, then do a U, U', or U2 AUF move to finish the solve. It might be that I have bad algorithms, but I was wondering: Would it be a good idea to do your AUF moves before your PLL, using d moves instead of U moves? With practice, would this have any effect on your times, good or bad?

 

[TheSilverBeluga]

Shoot, wrong forum. Could I have a mod move this to the Cubing Help and Questions section please? Thanks!

 

[Chree]

Here are a few of my thoughts on this:

1) Sure, why not? If you practice it and get good at it... ain't a problem. But...

2) ... I feel like it's more common to just pre-AUF, do the alg, and post-AUF after. I think this is true for 2 reasons: A) d's are simply more "awkward" than U's, since they usually compromise your grip on the cube. And B) sometimes the "standard" alg for a given PLL is just so good that adding 1 move to the beginning and end won't slow you down as much as you think it will.

3) ... as you get faster and are trying to cut down on those extra moves, you can learn new algs for PLLs from different angles. Sometimes the alg is only slightly different, like Chris Olson's T Perm + U2, which he brought back for an "Alg of the Week" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V7SjNu33vw. But in other cases there’s an entirely different alg to handle the U2 position, like with Gc: [R2' u' R U' R U R' u R2 y R U' R'] vs [R2' F2 R U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F R2]. Take a look through algdb.net and see if there are any cool algs for handling PLLs from different AUF's. You may find something you like.

And regarding A perms specifically, try checking out Chris’s execution video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSqpzf22iWQ. Could help out that awkwardness you spoke of.

 

[JTWong71]

I did have that thought before, but after some thinking, if you have non-AUF case that is just mirrored, then you might try to do U2 + d2, which turns into y2, which you would normally want to try to avoid as 180 rotations will usually take more time that U2, then U2.

 

[Berd]

There are some cases where you can change the algorithm slightly to save auf. Cyo has a video on a T perm trick like that.

 

[alisterprofitt]

I AUF the A perm with a d' afterwards when necessary, much more comfortable than a U' to me. That's the only PLL I do that for though.

 

[jaredye]

I would think another way of pre-AUF might make more sense. I assume you do x' at the beginning of your A perms. What I do is that as I do the x' I also insert a y or y' here if needed. I feel doing yx' is just as fast as doing x'. The problem is if I have to AUF with U2, then I have to do y2x', which is quite stupid. In this case I often just do the A perm and then add a F2 in the end.

For the E perm this method works better since you never need to do y2x' because E perm is symmetric.

 

[YouCubing]

I do that all the time, idk why though

 

[jaredye]

I happen to have another question and I want to hear other people's thoughts.

If the last layer is correctly aligned, but the side that faces you is not your preferred side to do the alg. Do you do for example U (alg) U' or y (alg)? I tend to think y is faster but by observing other people I find they tend to avoid y moves.

 

[TorbinRoux]

I think if you just practice the possible auf cases for each angle of the plls, you should get used to it and cut down your times.

 

[stoic]

I happen to have another question and I want to hear other people's thoughts.

If the last layer is correctly aligned, but the side that faces you is not your preferred side to do the alg. Do you do for example U (alg) U' or y (alg)? I tend to think y is faster but by observing other people I find they tend to avoid y moves.

I would generally try to avoid y in this case, but it also depends on the position of my hands at the time.

 

[shadowslice e]

You could also learn the PLLs from a U2 angle to avoid any U2s or U3s

 

[dskids]

I happen to have another question and I want to hear other people's thoughts.

If the last layer is correctly aligned, but the side that faces you is not your preferred side to do the alg. Do you do for example U (alg) U' or y (alg)? I tend to think y is faster but by observing other people I find they tend to avoid y moves.

I avoid pre-alg AUF's for two main reasons:

- First is the one you highlighted here: it will involve a y rotation or a d turn. In my experience, even an awkward U/U2 turn after the alg is faster.

- You add another pre-permutation recognition step. Instead of just recognizing PLL case and U layer position for alg, you have to recognize PLL case, cube orientation to avoid AUF, and U layer position for alg.

 

[Isaac Lai]

In general, you should AUF before PLL if it is not an angle that you know an alg for. Of course, in this respect, learning algs from multiple angles helps a lot. The only exception is the E perm. Since the alg is done with LL on F, I always align the edges, then rotate. Also, I sometimes do this for Z perm (only if it is from a U2 angle).

 

[jaredye]

In general, you should AUF before PLL if it is not an angle that you know an alg for. Of course, in this respect, learning algs from multiple angles helps a lot. The only exception is the E perm. Since the alg is done with LL on F, I always align the edges, then rotate. Also, I sometimes do this for Z perm (only if it is from a U2 angle).

What about A perm? I assume most people also do x' in the first move of A perm.

 

[Chree]

It's tough to give a general answer to a lot of these questions, because the decision might entirely depend on the specific case. For instance, with this case: U' [T Perm] U. Even though U' is probably the nicest Pre-AUF, I always found U to be awkward as a Post-AUF. So I generally just to y' [T Perm]. I've actually been meaning to ask how other people handle that case, in particular.

What about A perm? I assume most people also do x' in the first move of A perm.

Depending on the alg you're using, you can cancel that x or x'. Like instead of doing x (R' U R') D2, do Lw' U R' D2. Or instead of x' R2 D2, do [Lw R] D2.