4BLD and 5BLD mean of 3

[Roman]

It's not an extra event. It's properly recognising achievements in the events we already have, and giving those people who aren't necessarily fast (but are accurate) something to aim for in competition.

See, that's why. One who can do fast singles can slow down just a little bit and easily do a fast Mo3, but should he? Basically the reason why I voted against 3BLD Mo3 is that person have to CHOOSE whether to rush the next attempt and possibly get a good single solve, or do a safe solve. This is such a difficult choice.

Sighed events and bigBLD have one difference - a fast BLD solve is not always a successful one. I appeal to everyone to keep this in mind before suggesting formats of those event types to be the same.

 

[AlexMaass]

anyway, yeah BigBLD means shouldn't be officially, it'll make it super hard for people to be officially ranked in all event singles and averages.

There is a ranking page for this, which I think is reasonable. https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/misc/missing_averages/

 

[Damien Porter]

anyway, yeah BigBLD means shouldn't be officially, it'll make it super hard for people to be officially ranked in all event singles and averages.

There is a ranking page for this, which I think is reasonable. https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/misc/missing_averages/

This reason has come up multiple times but no body has given any reason that gives merit to it. We could always class these (as well as 3bld means) as "non competitive means" and then people can say they are officially ranked in every competitive singles and averages event.

 

[Sajwo]

Basically the reason why I voted against 3BLD Mo3 is that person have to CHOOSE whether to rush the next attempt and possibly get a good single solve, or do a safe solve.

I guess you have never heard before about Maskow

 

[Roman]

I guess you have never heard before about Maskow

Are you claiming then that he is both fast and accurate all the time? Sometimes he is, but most of the time he's not, which proves my point.
But of couse the argument that you have quoted is more applicable to blgBLD. For instance, the current 4BLD WR is so fast that it requires one-go memo without rehearsing. I don't know about other people, but for me - I absolutely can not guarantee that such a rush solve would be a successful one.

 

[Ollie]

Are you claiming then that he is both fast and accurate all the time? Sometimes he is, but most of the time he's not, which proves my point.
But of couse the argument that you have quoted is more applicable to blgBLD. For instance, the current 4BLD WR is so fast that it requires one-go memo without rehearsing. I don't know about other people, but for me - I absolutely can not guarantee that such a rush solve would be a successful one.

Just because it's a difficult thing to achieve, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be recognised. If anything, they deserve as much recognition or more, because it's a hard accomplishment. Marcell Endrey overcame some pretty serious nerve issues at WC2013 to win all events and get the fastest 5BLD Mo3 at the time.

And this kind of stress exists in every event. All of the best competitors in every event have had to deal with some of pressure where the first solves have been great and a lot rests on the outcome of the last solves. It's what makes them great.

I'm not exactly the best example of someone who controls their nerves in comps, but if I had a chance to break a Mo3 PB, then I would learn to. Right now, there is no incentive for me to be accurate three times.

anyway, yeah BigBLD means shouldn't be officially, it'll make it super hard for people to be officially ranked in all event singles and averages.

There is a ranking page for this, which I think is reasonable. https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/misc/missing_averages/

We're aware of the Missing Averages page. I'm saying it's not reasonable. There are some amazing achievements on that page, arguably some that were much harder to achieve than some 3BLD means, and the fact that they are not officially recognised is a bit insulting.

 

[mark49152]

I am sorry, I wrote the wrong thing. I mean when multiple attempts are held in the same competition that are all part of the same round.

That's why I asked if you were suggesting three-hour MBLD rounds. Or are you suggesting that means should only be possible for smaller attempts such that you can fit all three attempts into one hour?

 

[Ollie]

https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/List_of_Unofficial_World_Records#Unofficial_events

There's some pretty impressive stuff here, should those events also be added?

You've missed the whole point. The key word there is unofficial. I am not arguing for a new event, nor am I arguing that they should be added because they are impressive.

I am arguing for recognition of an average that already exists within an official event (hence the missing averages page). My view is that all of the same arguments that helped to get 3BLD means recognised as being official (which used to be a part of that missing averages page) also apply to 4BLD and 5BLD as well. And that not recognising these is unfair on those who take part in 4BLD and 5BLD and have gone the extra mile to be accurate.

 

[MatsBergsten]

In fact, I still think there are good cases for getting rid of 5BLD.

But why are you arguing for getting rid of 5BLD? Or rather, what are your arguments?

 

[Ollie]

But why are you arguing for getting rid of 5BLD? Or rather, what are your arguments?

A lot of my arguments are similar to Daniel's from this thread.

But it does not mean that big BLD Mo3s cannot be recognised officially. For example, old style MBLD is still recognised as an official world record, even though it is not an official event anymore.

 

[1973486]

You've missed the whole point. The key word there is unofficial. I am not arguing for a new event, nor am I arguing that they should be added because they are impressive.

Depends on how "event" is used. In this sense, it is a new event.

And that not recognising these is unfair on those who take part in 4BLD and 5BLD and have gone the extra mile to be accurate.

This still seems to me like adding it because it's impressive.

 

[Damien Porter]

That's why I asked if you were suggesting three-hour MBLD rounds. Or are you suggesting that means should only be possible for smaller attempts such that you can fit all three attempts into one hour?

No not at all, some competitions (not many bit some) allow competitors to have multiple attempts at Mbld. For these competitions and only these completions will an official mean be recorded, though in no way effect the results of the competition.

PS
You do raise an interesting thought about weather a competitor should be able to have multiple attempts at Mbld, if they can do them all within the hour. Whilst I do see some definite downsides to this, I think it is at least worth pursuing as an option.

 

[Ollie]

Depends on how "event" is used. In this sense, it is a new event.

I'm obviously not using the word event in that sense. In that sense, 2x2x2 single is an event. To say that it is a 'new event' is silly because competition resources, competitor tactics and and round formats do not change with the addition of a recognised mean.

Changing the definition of 'event' doesn't mean anything.

This still seems to me like adding it because it's impressive.

My main point was the "unfair on those who take part in 4BLD and 5BLD" part, since those who compete in these events get less official recognition than those who compete in 3BLD, purely because of their event choice.

 

[Sajwo]

If 4BLD and 5BLD mean of 3 will not be recognised then I demand removing 3BLD mean of 3 as well.

 

[Ollie]

Right now it's unfair on 3% of people who have done 5BLD. I feel like you're only thinking about the way it would affect fast big BLD solvers.

I'm thinking about the 36 people it affects who miss out on a good world ranking, or an NR, or a CR, or a WR, because of some technicality which shouldn't exist.

Edit: compared to the 15 people in the 'all official averages' club that would be affected

Edit 2: no idea that it had changed that much, it's actually 46 in total, and 45 affected. My mistake!