[Help Thread] Square-1 Discussion

I dunno if it's already posted somewhere, but:
Opp parity on top AND on bottom
Adj on bottom
O perms(?) on bottom, or how else do you solve them?

I avg around 27-29, my cubeshape being around 6-9 seconds (depending on the case). is that slow?
 
These maybe?
op/- : /3,3/1,0/-2,-2/2,0/2,2/0,-2/-1,-1/0,3/-3,-3/0,2/-2,-2/-1,0 or /3,3/-1,0/2,-4/4,-2/0,-2/-4,2/1,-5/0,-3/-3,-3/0,-3
-/op : /-3,-3/0,-1/2,2/0,-2/-2,-2/2,0/1,1/-3,0/3,3/-2,0/2,2/0,1 or /-3,-3/0,1/4,-2/2,-4/2,0/-2,4/5,-1/0,-3/-3,-3/0,-3

Moar here.

And yes I think 6-9s for cubeshape is slow, try to get it down to 3-6s to begin with, assuming you're not doing beginners "shape".
 
So I'm thinking about learning Square-1 one step at a time, for example learn all the algs to one-look cube shape, then one-look CO, then one-look EO, etc, more to see how it would work than to try to get fast that way. The idea I have is that however far I am through this process I will be able to one-look each step, but not be able to solve the cube beyond that point, then when I finish I will immediately know the entire advanced method for Square-1 without having to move beyond a beginner's method.
Maybe this will all come to nought, but does anyone else have any thoughts on it?

Edit: Upon further inspection, one-look EP is pretty involved...
 
Last edited:
joshsailscga said:
So I'm thinking about learning Square-1 one step at a time, for example learn all the algs to one-look cube shape, then one-look CO, then one-look EO, etc, more to see how it would work than to try to get fast that way. The idea I have is that however far I am through this process I will be able to one-look each step, but not be able to solve the cube beyond that point, then when I finish I will immediately know the entire advanced method for Square-1 without having to move beyond a beginner's method.
Maybe this will all come to nought, but does anyone else have any thoughts on it?

Edit: Upon further inspection, one-look EP is pretty involved...
Click to expand...


I have solved the square-1 for years, and I do not think that is the best idea. I would instead suggest learning how to solve it with the beginners method. Once you are comfortable with that method, then I think it would be beneficial to learn more advanced techniques / algorithms. My main reason for doing it this way, is due to the fact that learning all of the algs for one step is often painful and time consuming. I've learned puzzles that way, and it's not enjoyable at all.

Once you've learned to solve the puzzle with the begginers method, I would then suggest learning all the cases for edge orientation, and corner permutation. These set of algs are not too difficult, and can really improve your times once you learn them. There is also a step called CO (corner orienration), however its very intuitive and should not require algorithms at all.

Afterwards, I would suggest learning advanced cubeshape, and some EP algs ( you don't need all of the ep algs, just the nice ones). When it comes to advanced cubeshape, I would recommend watching David Woner's
(YouTube channel =vault312 ) video on the topic. The best analogy I have for advanced cubeshape, is comparing it to intuitive f2l. You don't need to memorize algs, just understand the basic idea and use the kite scallop method. For edge permutation just learn the easy/ nice cases. You do not need to learn every EP case to be fast at square-1.
 
I just get lots of pops :( I know this is a large problem, just working on turning, etc., but it is kind of disheartening. I really like the puzzle but I just don't seem to be improving. Also, I really put off learning cubeshape besides the one where you put all the 30 degree edges together (I call it Spaceship/Millenium Falcon). I should probably do that
 
So, with the QiYi out now it seems like a lot of people are interested in getting good at sq1 (myself included). There seems to be a handful of dead links in the OP, which is a shame because I'm interested in learning some AO for a few cases I seem to notice frequently. Are there any other sources on AO that exist or do I just have to message someone fast? :p
 
ottozing said:
So, with the QiYi out now it seems like a lot of people are interested in getting good at sq1 (myself included). There seems to be a handful of dead links in the OP, which is a shame because I'm interested in learning some AO for a few cases I seem to notice frequently. Are there any other sources on AO that exist or do I just have to message someone fast? :p
Click to expand...

Fixed the AO page ;)

EDIT: oh, and I rehosted the 'Square-1 "PLL" Recognition' link here

Also, I figured out something the other day to do some orientation cases 1-look. I'm too lazy to explain anything but maybe someone can figure it out: http://pastebin.com/W9DGgHG0
Trust me it's pretty cool stuff.
 
I don't really know what to do next. My average is around 22-23 seconds, with a PB of 12.3x and an average (of five) of 16.3x. My splits are around 5,2,4,3,8. I use a cubetwist, but I am going to get a QiYi soon. I feel like I need to improve my cubeshape, EO and EP by learning more algs for each.

For Cubeshape, I know scallop kite and can one-look most cubeshapes. Most of them take (on average) about 6 slices, so I think this can definitely be improved on.

For EO, I know all but 2 of them, the 3 on top and bottom and the one that looks like opp-adj. This step takes longer than it should due to the fact that I do not know these algs.

For EP I know U, Z, H, adj parity, opp+O, adj adj, opp opp.
For most EPs, I do a few adj adj algs and then do parity if I have it (or do another alg).

Which do you think that I should do first and which do you think will be more beneficial?
 
Hssandwich said:
I don't really know what to do next. My average is around 22-23 seconds, with a PB of 12.3x and an average (of five) of 16.3x. My splits are around 5,2,4,3,8. I use a cubetwist, but I am going to get a QiYi soon. I feel like I need to improve my cubeshape, EO and EP by learning more algs for each.

For Cubeshape, I know scallop kite and can one-look most cubeshapes. Most of them take (on average) about 6 slices, so I think this can definitely be improved on.

For EO, I know all but 2 of them, the 3 on top and bottom and the one that looks like opp-adj. This step takes longer than it should due to the fact that I do not know these algs.

For EP I know U, Z, H, adj parity, opp+O, adj adj, opp opp.
For most EPs, I do a few adj adj algs and then do parity if I have it (or do another alg).

Which do you think that I should do first and which do you think will be more beneficial?
Click to expand...
Defiantly learn the last 2 EO algs, maybe look into U perms on both layers?
 
Hssandwich said:
I don't really know what to do next. My average is around 22-23 seconds, with a PB of 12.3x and an average (of five) of 16.3x. My splits are around 5,2,4,3,8. I use a cubetwist, but I am going to get a QiYi soon. I feel like I need to improve my cubeshape, EO and EP by learning more algs for each.

For Cubeshape, I know scallop kite and can one-look most cubeshapes. Most of them take (on average) about 6 slices, so I think this can definitely be improved on.

For EO, I know all but 2 of them, the 3 on top and bottom and the one that looks like opp-adj. This step takes longer than it should due to the fact that I do not know these algs.

For EP I know U, Z, H, adj parity, opp+O, adj adj, opp opp.
For most EPs, I do a few adj adj algs and then do parity if I have it (or do another alg).

Which do you think that I should do first and which do you think will be more beneficial?
Click to expand...

An average of 6 moves for cube-shape seems a bit high. the most you will ever need is 7. I'd suggest learning the optimal algs for cases that you don't like. The last EO case you need to learn is really easy, and should not be hard to do.

Algs that I use:

(0,-1) (3,0) / (3,0) / (1,1) / (-3,0) / (-3,0) /

and

(1,0) / (3,0) / (3,0) / (-1,-1) / (-3,0) / ( -3,0)

These seem to be the best algs for that case. Feel free to pick whatever feels more comfortable.

For EP, just learn efficient ways to do cases. It's more of an experimental thing. You could learn all the EP cases that don't involve parity (learning EP cases with parity is helpful but I have not found it necessary to learn all of them), but most of those should be intuitive.

Otherwise just practice and you should get better with time. the 20 second barrier feels equivalent to the barrier of sub 15 on 3x3. It takes time to pass it, but you can do it.
 
Hssandwich said:
I don't really know what to do next. My average is around 22-23 seconds, with a PB of 12.3x and an average (of five) of 16.3x. My splits are around 5,2,4,3,8. I use a cubetwist, but I am going to get a QiYi soon. I feel like I need to improve my cubeshape, EO and EP by learning more algs for each.

For Cubeshape, I know scallop kite and can one-look most cubeshapes. Most of them take (on average) about 6 slices, so I think this can definitely be improved on.

For EO, I know all but 2 of them, the 3 on top and bottom and the one that looks like opp-adj. This step takes longer than it should due to the fact that I do not know these algs.

For EP I know U, Z, H, adj parity, opp+O, adj adj, opp opp.
For most EPs, I do a few adj adj algs and then do parity if I have it (or do another alg).

Which do you think that I should do first and which do you think will be more beneficial?
Click to expand...

Berd said:
Defiantly learn the last 2 EO algs, maybe look into U perms on both layers?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think learning those last EO cases will help out (mostly as a mental thing - now you can move into EO _knowing_ you can solve it quickly and efficiently 100% of the time). Plus, 3/3 is actually pretty fast :) You don't need to learn them defiantly, 'tho - learning them humbly is probably just as effective ;)

I think a big place to work is definitely cubeshape, as you said - remember that the _worst_ case (God's algorithm style) is 7, and there's only one of them (kite/square). Try to get that average down to 5 - either you can get it into scallop-kite in 1/2 twists, or you know optimal. I highly recommend learning all 11 <= 3 move CS cases, and ideally the 16 4-movers, as well.

For EP, I would probably recommend also learning adj/opp (and opp/adj), the U/U cases (like Berd says - particularly, the two cases where they're both clockwise/counter-clockwise), W/adj, and the 4 U/adj cases. If you're not using CP + parity, then I would definitely recommend learning the U/adj cases - you'll save yourself quite a bit of time by generally only needing to do one adj/adj (or opp/opp) before doing your parity alg, meaning that the vast majority of cases are 2-look.

Source: sub-15 without using a QiYi (qq where's my qiyi T__T)
 
not_kevin said:
Yeah, I think learning those last EO cases will help out (mostly as a mental thing - now you can move into EO _knowing_ you can solve it quickly and efficiently 100% of the time). Plus, 3/3 is actually pretty fast :) You don't need to learn them defiantly, 'tho - learning them humbly is probably just as effective ;)

I think a big place to work is definitely cubeshape, as you said - remember that the _worst_ case (God's algorithm style) is 7, and there's only one of them (kite/square). Try to get that average down to 5 - either you can get it into scallop-kite in 1/2 twists, or you know optimal. I highly recommend learning all 11 <= 3 move CS cases, and ideally the 16 4-movers, as well.

For EP, I would probably recommend also learning adj/opp (and opp/adj), the U/U cases (like Berd says - particularly, the two cases where they're both clockwise/counter-clockwise), W/adj, and the 4 U/adj cases. If you're not using CP + parity, then I would definitely recommend learning the U/adj cases - you'll save yourself quite a bit of time by generally only needing to do one adj/adj (or opp/opp) before doing your parity alg, meaning that the vast majority of cases are 2-look.

Source: sub-15 without using a QiYi (qq where's my qiyi T__T)
Click to expand...

Great, thanks. I'll start ASAP. I want sub 20 average at my next comp :)
 
not_kevin said:
Yeah, I think learning those last EO cases will help out (mostly as a mental thing - now you can move into EO _knowing_ you can solve it quickly and efficiently 100% of the time). Plus, 3/3 is actually pretty fast :) You don't need to learn them defiantly, 'tho - learning them humbly is probably just as effective ;)

I think a big place to work is definitely cubeshape, as you said - remember that the _worst_ case (God's algorithm style) is 7, and there's only one of them (kite/square). Try to get that average down to 5 - either you can get it into scallop-kite in 1/2 twists, or you know optimal. I highly recommend learning all 11 <= 3 move CS cases, and ideally the 16 4-movers, as well.

For EP, I would probably recommend also learning adj/opp (and opp/adj), the U/U cases (like Berd says - particularly, the two cases where they're both clockwise/counter-clockwise), W/adj, and the 4 U/adj cases. If you're not using CP + parity, then I would definitely recommend learning the U/adj cases - you'll save yourself quite a bit of time by generally only needing to do one adj/adj (or opp/opp) before doing your parity alg, meaning that the vast majority of cases are 2-look.

Source: sub-15 without using a QiYi (qq where's my qiyi T__T)
Click to expand...

I would also add O perms and pure adj to that EP list. O perms are very intuitive, and adj is very similar.
 
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