Older cubers discussions

[Logiqx]

I'll have a watch of your video later. I also did some recording today...

Best single=15.83 (solve 5)... PLL skip
Ao5=17.58 (solves 1 to 5)... new PB.
Ao12=18.89 (solves 1 to 12)... nearly a PB

Spoiler

Scrambles and times:
1. 17.34 F R' L' F L' B2 U' R D' L2 D2 F B2 R2 B R2 B' R2 F2 U2
2. 17.14 F D L2 D2 R2 B2 D' B2 R2 U B2 D2 L U' L' B' L' F2 U L R2
3. 18.29 L2 D U R2 B2 U2 F2 D B2 U2 L' F U R2 F' D2 U' B U' L2
4. 18.28 D U2 F2 D2 R2 F2 R2 U' B2 D' B2 F L' R2 F' U B2 D' F'
5. 15.83 L2 F R2 F' D2 B2 F D2 B2 L2 R' D' B2 L D F U' R2 B U' F2
6. 19.99 F2 D F2 D' R2 U L2 B2 D F2 L2 B' D2 L U' F' U2 L R2 U
7. 20.63 U2 L2 B2 L2 D R2 U R2 B2 U F2 R' F D2 R U' R' F' L2 B U2
8. 17.45 R2 F2 L2 B2 R2 D' L2 U F2 D U' B' L' B2 L2 F2 L2 R' B' D F'
9. 20.99 L2 R2 U F2 U' R2 D2 F2 U R2 B2 R' D2 B' F L2 F' U' R B' R2
10. 29.82 D' F' U2 B' R2 U2 B2 L2 F D2 F L2 R' F2 U' L2 R' B R2 B' R
11. 18.97 D R2 F2 L2 B2 U2 F2 U F2 R2 B' L F R' F2 U' B F L U2
12. 19.83 F R2 B2 L2 U' F2 D F2 D F2 L2 U B' R' U B D F2 L2 D F2

 

[MarcelP]

Kkj

I'll have a watch of your video later. I also did some recording today...

Best single=15.83 (solve 5)... PLL skip
Ao5=17.58 (solves 1 to 5)... new PB.
Ao12=18.89 (solves 1 to 12)... nearly a PB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGxQKzTkglM

Spoiler

Scrambles and times:
1. 17.34 F R' L' F L' B2 U' R D' L2 D2 F B2 R2 B R2 B' R2 F2 U2
2. 17.14 F D L2 D2 R2 B2 D' B2 R2 U B2 D2 L U' L' B' L' F2 U L R2
3. 18.29 L2 D U R2 B2 U2 F2 D B2 U2 L' F U R2 F' D2 U' B U' L2
4. 18.28 D U2 F2 D2 R2 F2 R2 U' B2 D' B2 F L' R2 F' U B2 D' F'
5. 15.83 L2 F R2 F' D2 B2 F D2 B2 L2 R' D' B2 L D F U' R2 B U' F2
6. 19.99 F2 D F2 D' R2 U L2 B2 D F2 L2 B' D2 L U' F' U2 L R2 U
7. 20.63 U2 L2 B2 L2 D R2 U R2 B2 U F2 R' F D2 R U' R' F' L2 B U2
8. 17.45 R2 F2 L2 B2 R2 D' L2 U F2 D U' B' L' B2 L2 F2 L2 R' B' D F'
9. 20.99 L2 R2 U F2 U' R2 D2 F2 U R2 B2 R' D2 B' F L2 F' U' R B' R2
10. 29.82 D' F' U2 B' R2 U2 B2 L2 F D2 F L2 R' F2 U' L2 R' B R2 B' R
11. 18.97 D R2 F2 L2 B2 U2 F2 U F2 R2 B' L F R' F2 U' B F L U2
12. 19.83 F R2 B2 L2 U' F2 D F2 D F2 L2 U B' R' U B D F2 L2 D F2

Mike! That was really cool. And you did not even screw up after the 15. I do not think I have recorded an Ao12 sub 19. That will be my new goal in life Awesome! Thanks for sharing.

Edit: what cube?

 

[Logiqx]

Kkj
Mike! That was really cool. Edit: what cube?

Thanks. It is my HuaLong with Lubix in the core... possibly a little too much but it's still fast enough for me.

 

[mark49152]

I like your turning style, Mike. You start some of those crosses so laid back it's like you don't care about your time

For the first few solves I thought you were a white cross solver, then you solved other colours later - are you fully CN?

 

[MarcelP]

Thanks. It is my HuaLong with Lubix in the core... possibly a little too much but it's still fast enough for me.

You can't go wrong with HuaLong

I like your turning style, Mike. You start some of those crosses so laid back it's like you don't care about your time

Yeah, I like it too. In fact I have watched the video twice allready to see if I can learn eanything. Your cross is indeed slow turning, but always finished within a good time. F2L is very smooth as in no pauses because of slow turning. Your OLL recognition is super fast and so is excecution. I know you are a man of statictiscs and a man of documenting. so.. do you have all your OLL's in one document? Not all my OLLs'are fast..

 

[Logiqx]

I like your turning style, Mike. You start some of those crosses so laid back it's like you don't care about your time

For the first few solves I thought you were a white cross solver, then you solved other colours later - are you fully CN?

Thanks Mark. I have a bias towards white / yellow but I am also able to solve with the other 4 cross colours. I have a quick glance at the cube to see if any centres have 2 or more connected cross edges then start evaluating other crosses. This recording happens to have a lot of white and yellow crosses but I usually find I get better averages if I consider colours other than white / yellow when a single edge is already connected. Once in a while, I get a super easy non-WY cross but for the most part dual colour neutrality would be fine IMHO.

The crosses look super slow to me and should probably be speeded up whilst still providing look ahead. I may use this video to assess my splits because I have never looked at them accurately.

Yeah, I like it too. In fact I have watched the video twice allready to see if I can learn eanything. Your cross is indeed slow turning, but always finished within a good time. F2L is very smooth as in no pauses because of slow turning. Your OLL recognition is super fast and so is excecution. I know you are a man of statictiscs and a man of documenting. so.. do you have all your OLL's in one document? Not all my OLLs'are fast..

Cool. Nice to know the video is being enjoyed by you guys!

I'll dig out my OLL cheat sheet tonight and send you a link. I don't have my computer with me right now.

 

[MarcelP]

I have a quick glance at the cube to see if any centres have 2 or more connected cross edges then start evaluating other crosses. This recording happens to have a lot of white and yellow crosses but I usually find I get better averages if I consider colours other than white / yellow when a single edge is already connected. Once in a while, I get a super easy non-WY cross but for the most part dual colour neutrality would be fine IMHO.

That's exactly how I do it. I seem to find a good yellow cross more often than a white one. If I see an easy other color than I choose that. My fast singles are often none white/yellow. I do not know why. I feel like because of slower turning during these blue/green/orange or red crosses making my F2L smoother or something like that. I bet you are surfing today. Yesterday it was 30 degress Celcius in Holland. So UK must be about the same..

 

[Logiqx]

It was similarly warm here in the UK yesterday. That's why I kept wiping my hands on my trousers in the video.

I was home a little later than expected today but I've done breakdowns from the video. I have calculated an Ao12 for each step; cross, F2L, OLL, PLL.

Ideal: 12.0% - 50.0% - 16.5% - 21.5%
Mine: 13.3% - 57.1% - 13.1% - 16.5%

The "ideal" values are from the "systematic progress" thread.

Looks like I need to improve my F2L.

 

[Logiqx]

This thread has gone quiet again!

Past few days, I've been getting back up to speed on the 2x2 (untimed) as I haven't touched it since January and today I did a bit of OH solving on video.

The Ao50 was 37.54 (PB) but I didn't have enough time to carry on to an Ao100. Here's a handful of decent solves from the session - 32.40 mean of 3.

Even on these "good" solves, I'm often tracking pieces for OLLs / PLLs which aren't in muscle memory. My OH algs still need a lot of work but my TPS is getting faster, I think.

 

[MarcelP]

Yeah quiet I have been busy with everything but not cubing. LOL Very cool OH solves! You make it seem so easy... My times are 3 times slower

 

[Logiqx]

Changing subject, I've been doing PLL recognition practice this week and found it good fun. See what you think. What I do is this: generate and apply a PLL scramble but do not allow myself to see more than two sides. Inspect those two sides then close eyes and solve (untimed). Cube should be fully solved afterwards, no further AUF required. Some of them are ridiculously easy of course, but for some it's quite a challenge to recognise the case, and recognise how to AUF to line it up for the alg, and then figure out how the alg will leave it and what AUF will be needed at the end.

I've just spent a bit of time looking at which pieces do not move during PLL and thus helpful when predicting the AUF. It's nothing ground breaking but I noticed that you can use OLL shapes to remember which pieces will stay in position. The only cases where this doesn't apply are the edge 3-cycles (U's and G's) but they're easy anyway; corners stay in position for U's and the block stays in position for G's.

Maybe this simple concept is useful for visualising the pieces which won't move and thus predict the AUF? I've added them to my PLL cheat sheet to illustrate.

 

[mark49152]

I've just spent a bit of time looking at which pieces do not move during PLL and thus helpful when predicting the AUF. It's nothing ground breaking but I noticed that you can use OLL shapes to remember which pieces will stay in position.

You still need to know whether your alg does a net turn of the U face though. For example, we know the V perm leaves the 2x2 block intact, but different algs start with it in different positions and leave it in different positions afterwards.

The method I use is based on sticker recognition. So I will look at two sides and recognise that it's an Ra perm. I also know from that which way to AUF to line up for my Ra perm alg. I also know that whichever sticker is then on the FUR position is the colour that will be in front when my alg completes. So I only care about that one sticker and don't even think about how the pieces move. The final U, U' or U2 has almost become muscle memory already.

 

[Logiqx]

I just got my first sub-20 Ao100. Finally!

I'll see what is on video... hopefully the PB single (13.21) and PB Ao12 (18.21).

Spoiler

Generated By csTimer on 2015-6-12
solves/total: 120/120

single
best: 13.21
worst: 27.94

mean of 3
current: 19.61 (σ = 3.69)
best: 16.79 (σ = 3.36)

avg of 5
current: 18.80 (σ = 2.20)
best: 17.70 (σ = 0.82)

avg of 12
current: 19.66 (σ = 2.22)
best: 18.21 (σ = 1.08)

avg of 50
current: 19.58 (σ = 1.90)
best: 19.13 (σ = 1.56)

avg of 100
current: 19.62 (σ = 1.94)
best: 19.55 (σ = 1.89)

Average: 19.74 (σ = 1.85)
Mean: 19.86

 

[Logiqx]

You still need to know whether your alg does a net turn of the U face though. For example, we know the V perm leaves the 2x2 block intact, but different algs start with it in different positions and leave it in different positions afterwards.

The method I use is based on sticker recognition. So I will look at two sides and recognise that it's an Ra perm. I also know from that which way to AUF to line up for my Ra perm alg. I also know that whichever sticker is then on the FUR position is the colour that will be in front when my alg completes. So I only care about that one sticker and don't even think about how the pieces move. The final U, U' or U2 has almost become muscle memory already.

That's basically what I do currently but I think it could be useful to know other stickers as well. For example, set up a T-perm then do U2 so that you can't see the eventual front sticker(s). Prior to the setup move in your solve you can make a mental note of the FU / FRU stickers relative to the front colour. You can then close your eyes and do setup (U2), T-Perm itself and know there is no need for a final AUF. You know where those stickers will be after the T-Perm and have a long time to figure out the AUF. It doesn't matter which two sides you use for PLL recognition because all sides have non-moving pieces, except for G-Perms.

I think your method requires the setup move before you can start thinking about the final AUF. That may be considered another mini-look?

Edit: This method should also work regardless of your algs. You just need to consider how your alg ends; e.g. my Js and Rs end with U'.

 

[Logiqx]

Mike! That was really cool. And you did not even screw up after the 15. I do not think I have recorded an Ao12 sub 19. That will be my new goal in life Awesome! Thanks for sharing.

You better get practicing dude, I'm on the rampage!

18.21 on camera although it contains a dodgy AUF and adding a +2 makes it 18.39.

For comic reaction to PB single:

 

[MarcelP]

For comic reaction to PB single:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Vq6zF9Ls0

LOL!! Freaking awesome!! If you noticed the PLL skip any sooner... You are doing really great now. Your progress is not going to stop any time soon

Today I had one of my best sessions in a very long time
I was doing low 18 average up to solve 30 and I slacked off from there..

Spoiler: Ao50

Generated By csTimer on 2015-6-12
solves/total: 50/50

single
best: 15.40
worst: 22.82

mean of 3
current: 17.56 (σ = 2.07)
best: 16.44 (σ = 1.01)

avg of 5
current: 18.83 (σ = 2.03)
best: 16.82 (σ = 0.52)

avg of 12
current: 19.45 (σ = 1.21)
best: 17.72 (σ = 1.71)

avg of 50
current: 18.89 (σ = 1.57)
best: 18.89 (σ = 1.57)

Average: 18.89 (σ = 1.57)
Mean: 18.91

Time List:
1. 16.55 R L2 U F' U' F2 B2 R' F B' L2 B2 R2 U2 R U2 R' D2 B2 R U2
2. 17.42 U2 L2 U L2 F2 R2 U' F2 U' R2 U L' B' U' F2 D' B' R' F' R F2
3. 15.40 L2 D2 U' B2 F2 L2 U R2 F2 R2 U' F' L D' F2 D L' B' L2 U'
4. 16.50 L B2 L2 F2 U2 R B2 U2 L2 R' F2 B U' L' U' B' R D' R' D' B
5. 19.01 B2 U' F2 R2 F2 D2 F2 R2 D' L2 F2 R' U2 B R' U F' L2 R2 D F'
6. 19.91 R' L' U2 B2 R' F' U L' B' R2 U' L2 U R2 U2 L2 U' F2 U2
7. 16.19 R F U2 R' D F2 B D2 L' U L2 D F2 B2 D F2 U2 R2 L2 U'
8. 21.14 R F' R' U2 R L F2 D B' L2 D2 F2 L2 B' D2 R2 L2 F2 D
9. 16.39 R U' F2 D' B2 U' B2 U2 R2 B2 F2 R2 F L D2 B2 F2 L B D' R2
10. 16.69 F2 R2 U2 L U2 R F2 D2 U2 L F R D L' D2 B2 L D2 L'
11. 22.10 R' D R F2 B' D B2 D B U2 L2 F B2 L2 D2 R2 F U2 F D
12. 17.36 B2 R2 D F2 D2 B2 U B2 U2 B2 U2 L' D B' F' D B D U B' L
13. 18.66 D' L2 B L2 F2 L2 D2 F' U2 B' L2 R2 D L D F' L' U B2 L R2
14. 17.13 D2 B U2 F R2 U2 R2 D2 F D2 R2 D L' R U' F U' L U B' R
15. 19.12 D' B2 D L2 F2 L2 R2 U' F2 D2 U' B' R D L2 U F L' B2 U' F
16. 19.19 D2 U2 F U2 L2 D2 B2 L2 F2 L2 F U R' D' F' R2 D U L' F' R2
17. 18.23 D' L2 F2 D' F2 D' R2 D' B2 F2 L2 F U' F L' D R' F2 D B2 L'
18. 19.89 U B' R2 B2 L2 D2 L2 D2 F2 U2 F' R2 D' F L2 D2 L B R' F'
19. 17.43 L B2 L2 B L2 D2 U2 F R2 B2 U2 B2 D B' U' R D' F2 U' L' B2
20. 19.16 L2 R2 U' B2 U' R2 F2 R2 D2 B2 U2 F D' L2 B' R' D2 L B2 U R'
21. 21.09 F2 R2 U' R2 B2 U2 F2 U2 L2 U L' F2 L2 R' F' D2 U2 F2 D R2
22. 16.16 R' L2 U F2 U B2 D U B2 F2 L2 R D2 B' R D2 R F U' R'
23. 17.36 R2 B2 R2 F2 D B2 R2 U2 R2 U F2 L' B L D' U' R B D' R U
24. 20.71 L' B2 L' U2 L2 F2 R' D2 U2 B2 D2 B' U L' U' L2 F2 U R U
25. 17.60 B U2 L' U F2 D2 R F' L' B2 U2 R2 D2 B' L2 B2 U2 R2 D2
26. 17.74 B2 L' U2 B2 R2 U2 F2 R' F2 R2 F2 U' R B D' B U2 R' D U' R2
27. 21.86 L D2 F2 U2 B2 L2 F2 R2 D L2 U2 F2 B' L U2 F L' U B2 D2 F
28. 20.08 B2 R U' F U2 B' L B' D2 R B2 R' D2 R2 L' B2 D2 R F2 U
29. 18.80 U' B' U2 R2 U2 F2 U2 R2 B' D2 U2 L B' L' F2 D2 U B' L D
30. 19.07 B2 U2 B2 R2 U2 R2 F' R2 B' U2 B' D L B2 U R' F U L2 F2 D'
31. 20.88 U D2 L F2 U2 L' R' F2 D2 B2 D R2 D' B L' R U L' D'
32. 19.76 R2 B' L' D' F L2 F' R2 L' B2 L2 F D2 B D2 L2 B' R2 B' L2
33. 19.86 R2 D' L2 D R2 F2 D' F2 D L2 U L' B D' B R U' R' F' D2
34. 22.82 U' L2 U' R2 B2 D' R2 U L2 U2 F2 R' B2 F' L' R U' B R' B L'
35. 21.59 L' U2 B2 L R2 F2 R B2 U2 B2 F2 U B2 L F R' U' B' F2 U'
36. 18.94 F2 R2 D2 U2 L U2 R B2 L' R F' R' U F L2 B D' L' U' R'
37. 18.86 U L2 D2 B L' F' R' U F L2 B' R2 L2 F U2 R2 B2 R2 B
38. 16.35 F B2 L2 D L2 D' F2 L2 B2 U2 F2 D2 B' R F2 L' B2 F U R' F2
39. 20.05 U' B2 F2 U L2 U2 L2 U F2 U' F2 R' F' D B' F' D L' F2 D U
40. 20.34 U F' B' R' B R2 L2 F' U' L2 B2 D' L2 F2 B2 U2 R2 D' R2 F'
41. 19.62 B D2 F2 D' R2 U' R2 F2 U B2 U' F L' F2 L2 R' D2 L' B
42. 18.50 R2 U2 F' B2 D2 F' R D' L' F2 R2 D2 L2 F R2 F2 D2 B2 U2 D2
43. 20.59 F2 R' L2 F' U B2 D' F' D L F2 B2 L B2 U2 F2 R' U2 R' F2
44. 18.96 U' L2 D2 F D2 F L2 B' F2 D L U2 L2 U' R2 D2 B2
45. 19.93 R D2 R2 B F2 U2 B2 F U2 R2 U2 R2 U' L D B' U2 R' D' F' L
46. 20.05 L' D R2 U L2 U' B2 L2 R2 D' U2 B L R2 D B2 U2 L' R D'
47. 21.80 D' L2 F2 U' F2 U' B2 U L2 R2 U L' D' B' F D B' F' D2 L' F
48. 16.26 R D' F2 R2 D B2 U2 L2 U F2 D F' D' U B' U2 L D L F
49. 19.95 U2 B2 D' L2 D' U' B2 D L2 B' U R2 B' F2 L D' R' F' D2
50. 16.48 R' D2 U2 B' L2 R2 B' L2 F' U2 F' U2 L' F' R D U2 R F2 D2 U

 

[Logiqx]

Today I had one of my best sessions in a very long time
I was doing low 18 average up to solve 30 and I slacked off from there..

Great to see you returning to form.

 

[mark49152]

I think your method requires the setup move before you can start thinking about the final AUF. That may be considered another mini-look?

It doesn't require the setup move, it just requires that you can identify which sticker to look at to predict front colour, regardless of which two sides you see. You're correct that this means learning more than one sticker though. I started learning stickers for opposite sides, but in most cases I forgot them because doing a mini-look after the setup move doesn't really cause a pause anyway. You're not thinking what to do next, which is what usually causes pauses; you already know what alg you are going to execute and are just spotting a colour fly past.

 

[MarcelP]

Great to see you returning to form.

No, this was clearly a fluke I did 30 solves this morning with a 20.04 average.. Not bad, but want to do sub 19 averages all the time now.. LOL This good average from yesterday was because I tried to adopt your style. Plan cross fully, and then instead of tracking a corner (from inspection) I solve cross slow and look ahead for first pair. Then do complete F2L like you do.. Match pair fairly quick, but before slotting slow down and look for next pair. This is completely different from what I do. But it seemed to work yesterday. What I normally do is when I spot a pair, I completely solve it without looking at the pair but instead searching for next pair. This method is ofcourse the best when your name is Feliks or Mats. I think my problem is that I make too many mistakes (like one every 4 pairings) which causes me loosing time to fix that and mess up looking for the next pair.

 

[Logiqx]

No, this was clearly a fluke I did 30 solves this morning with a 20.04 average.. Not bad, but want to do sub 19 averages all the time now.. LOL This good average from yesterday was because I tried to adopt your style. Plan cross fully, and then instead of tracking a corner (from inspection) I solve cross slow and look ahead for first pair. Then do complete F2L like you do.. Match pair fairly quick, but before slotting slow down and look for next pair. This is completely different from what I do. But it seemed to work yesterday. What I normally do is when I spot a pair, I completely solve it without looking at the pair but instead searching for next pair. This method is ofcourse the best when your name is Feliks or Mats. I think my problem is that I make too many mistakes (like one every 4 pairings) which causes me loosing time to fix that and mess up looking for the next pair.

Interesting to hear you got a decent average by adopting my style. Bear in mind you only see my good solves on video and I have my fair share of poor solves as well.

I'm looking at my breakdown for yesterday...

12+: 1
14+: 0
16+: 27
18+: 46
20+: 28
22+: 8
24+: 8
26+: 2

If you watched the last Ao12 video there is some involuntary language after one of my sub-20's... ooops. I guess it's an indication of what times feel good / bad to me nowadays!

I've just completed an OH Ao100 (second one ever) but they are super tiring for my hand. Hopefully it will have developed a bit of strength / endurance though!