4x4x4 Methods, ease & info...

[CrackTaxi]

Hello everybody,

Firstly I thought I'd mention I used the search and read the FAQs and I still have questions.

I can only solve 3x3 using beginners method (Rob's World's tutorial), and I average about 43 using that method, I do want to get faster in the future and I will hopefully learn full Fridrich method. Before I learned that I learned 2x2, not sure what method I think it might be Ortega...

I bought a 4x4 (Shengshou v5) a few weeks ago and I haven't tried learning a method yet.

What methods do I have to choose from? I've only heard of Yau - I've heard its the fastest, is this true?

The difference between 3x3 beginners and Fridrich is like night and day, one has 3 algs and one has too many for me.

With 4x4 I want to learn to solve relitively decent and not too slow, but not learn 100+ algs. Is Yau loads of algs?

It might be worth me saying I do want to learn higher too, 5x5, 6x6, 7x7 etc...


Sorry if this gets asks loads, I know people get annoyed at some questions like this but I did look and I couldn't find what I was looking for.

Thank you in advance

 

[Hypocrism]

Hello everybody,

Firstly I thought I'd mention I used the search and read the FAQs and I still have questions.

I can only solve 3x3 using beginners method (Rob's World's tutorial), and I average about 43 using that method, I do want to get faster in the future and I will hopefully learn full Fridrich method. Before I learned that I learned 2x2, not sure what method I think it might be Ortega...

I bought a 4x4 (Shengshou v5) a few weeks ago and I haven't tried learning a method yet.

What methods do I have to choose from? I've only heard of Yau - I've heard its the fastest, is this true?

The difference between 3x3 beginners and Fridrich is like night and day, one has 3 algs and one has too many for me.

With 4x4 I want to learn to solve relitively decent and not too slow, but not learn 100+ algs. Is Yau loads of algs?

It might be worth me saying I do want to learn higher too, 5x5, 6x6, 7x7 etc...


Sorry if this gets asks loads, I know people get annoyed at some questions like this but I did look and I couldn't find what I was looking for.

Thank you in advance

Learn simple reduction for now, and really get to understand the concepts. You can move onto Yau when you're reasonable at 4x4, maybe around 1 minute 30.

The benefit of this is that it helps you to understand the fundamentals of what is going on with the solve - this will help you to get fast later on. It is also entirely applicable to bigger cubes. All you need to solve any nxnxn cube is to know how to reduce a 4x4, and how to swap two centre pieces with a commutator (which is simple and you'll learn about it when you start big cubes).

Also you asked about alg number - reduction requires 2 algs on top of your normal solving method. Yau requires the same 2 algs (it's really just a variation on the order of steps in reduction).

 

[qqwref]

Yau is basically no algs. I mean sure, you need the OLL and PLL parity algs, but you need those for pretty much anything on 4x4x4. The rest is building pieces and pairing edges, and that's intuitive.

Also, Yau is pretty much two steps, and the second one is finishing the 3x3x3 with the cross already completed. So you do need to be decent at 3x3x3 to get good 4x4x4 times. The same is true of Reduction: the second part is solving a 3x3x3 (this time with nothing solved though) so you also need to be good at 3x3x3 for that. I don't actually know of any super fast 4x4x4 methods that don't involve some 3x3x3 solving, although methods without a 3x3x3 step (KBCM, OBLBL, K4 etc.) have been done in under a minute.

 

[CrackTaxi]

Learn simple reduction for now, and really get to understand the concepts. You can move onto Yau when you're reasonable at 4x4, maybe around 1 minute 30.

The benefit of this is that it helps you to understand the fundamentals of what is going on with the solve - this will help you to get fast later on. It is also entirely applicable to bigger cubes. All you need to solve any nxnxn cube is to know how to reduce a 4x4, and how to swap two centre pieces with a commutator (which is simple and you'll learn about it when you start big cubes).

Also you asked about alg number - reduction requires 2 algs on top of your normal solving method. Yau requires the same 2 algs (it's really just a variation on the order of steps in reduction).

Thank you for your reply. I'll learn reduction as it's useful as you said I never even knew 1:30 was possible using simpler methods, so I might not even feel the need to move on to Yau in the end.

 

[CrackTaxi]

You don't need 80 algs for CFOP necessarily. You can learn two look OLL and PLL.

I meant full CFOP, there are a lot, well, a lot for me

 

[CrackTaxi]

Yau is basically no algs. I mean sure, you need the OLL and PLL parity algs, but you need those for pretty much anything on 4x4x4. The rest is building pieces and pairing edges, and that's intuitive.

Also, Yau is pretty much two steps, and the second one is finishing the 3x3x3 with the cross already completed. So you do need to be decent at 3x3x3 to get good 4x4x4 times. The same is true of Reduction: the second part is solving a 3x3x3 (this time with nothing solved though) so you also need to be good at 3x3x3 for that. I don't actually know of any super fast 4x4x4 methods that don't involve some 3x3x3 solving, although methods without a 3x3x3 step (KBCM, OBLBL, K4 etc.) have been done in under a minute.

I'm shocked at how little algs are in Yau, I was always under the impression it was gonna be some very advanced method with a daunting number of algs that's LOADS more difficult than the 3x3x3 full Fridrich method... Glad to hear it's not

Thank you for your replies

 

[lerenard]

I meant full CFOP, there are a lot, well, a lot for me

With cfop, the difference between knowing 80 algs and only 30 is about 2 seconds difference for very fast solvers. To get to 30 you need 7 corner orienting algs that are very easy and 21 PLL's which are really just 13 algorithms that you have to learn to do a little differently each time, and you only need 5 for 2 look PLL. You don't need to start learning any of that until you are comfortably under a minute, but when you do you shouldn't find it too difficult.

@hypocrism: what do you mean by "center swapping commutator?"

 

[cashis]

@hypocrism: what do you mean by "center swapping commutator?"

Commutators to switch the center pieces on big cubes?
works on 4x4 too, but isn't really necessary.

 

[CrackTaxi]

Great, thanks for your replies guys

So what tutorial is the best for the reduction method then? I've seen a few people on here say (regarding 3x3x3s) stay away from Dan Brown's tutorial because it's the worse way and it's inefficient. Is that the same with his 4x4x4 tutorial? Should I stick to Rob's World?

I think a friend of mine learned the beginners method using Dan Brown's video, and he does the cross at the top and F2l all slow and sideways, and he's stuck with close to 1:30 times, whereas with the Rob's World tutorial, he taught the cross and F2L at the bottom and I get 45 with that beginners method as I said, so maybe Rob's tutorial for the 4x4 will be superior too?

 

[lerenard]

Commutators to switch the center pieces on big cubes?
works on 4x4 too, but isn't really necessary.

I've never solved anything bigger than a 5x5, but I here they use commutators like that for 6x6 and up, I guess that's what he was referring to. No idea why you would recommend it to a beginner learning 4x4 though.

@OP, just watch a couple different tutorials and see which one you like. Or if you're feeling adventurous just follow these steps and see if you can get it:

Step 1: solve centers. Make sure the correct centers are opposite, and that three adjacent centers are in the right order (try to put a corner in between them, if it matches one but the other two are switched you need to swap those two centers)
Step 2: pair up edges. Match up two edge pieces, move them out of the way, and then restore the centers. If you have two left, try this: d R U R' F R' F' R d'
Step 3: solve it like a 3x3
Step 4: if you come across a situation you can't solve like a 3x3, look up OLL and PLL parity algs.
You're a beginner, so you probably will have trouble just following these basic steps, but if you try it first any tutorial you will watch will make more sense because you've already tried to do it on your own.

 

[Seanliu]

I have a question to ask myself:

I am using Reduction from the leaflet that my Moyu Aosu came with, and am getting 3 min times with it. So, how is Yau different and where do I learn it?

 

[stoic]

There's an overview on the wiki here. It's just really a variation on standard reduction with a slightly different order of steps.

 

[Hypocrism]

With cfop, the difference between knowing 80 algs and only 30 is about 2 seconds difference for very fast solvers. To get to 30 you need 7 corner orienting algs that are very easy and 21 PLL's which are really just 13 algorithms that you have to learn to do a little differently each time, and you only need 5 for 2 look PLL. You don't need to start learning any of that until you are comfortably under a minute, but when you do you shouldn't find it too difficult.

@hypocrism: what do you mean by "center swapping commutator?"

On bigger cubes, you can't quite solve all of the centers with simple reduction (at least, not easily and intuitively or efficiently). You can do 5x5 without this centre switching commutator, but on 6x6 and 7x7 you'll often need to use a single commutator to swap the last two centre pieces.

The commutator for swapping two centre pieces on adjacent centres is:

1) Set the pieces to be on equivalent places on each centre (ie if one is 2 from the left and 3 from the top, put the other one also 2 from the left and 3 from the top.)
2) Single layer slice in direction x to put one piece (a) into the place where the other piece is (b)
3) Outer slice move to move b away from the slice that you moved in 2)
4) On b's new slice, do another single layer slice of that slice in direction x
5) Undo the outer slice move of 3)
6) Undo the single slice of 2)
7) Redo the outer slice move of 3)
8) Undo the single slice of 4)



It sounds complicated written down, but once you see it done once it will become intuitive and not even algorithmic. I don't count it in the alg count for redux methods.

 

[lerenard]

On bigger cubes, you can't quite solve all of the centers with simple reduction (at least, not easily and intuitively or efficiently). You can do 5x5 without this centre switching commutator, but on 6x6 and 7x7 you'll often need to use a single commutator to swap the last two centre pieces.

The commutator for swapping two centre pieces on adjacent centres is:

1) Set the pieces to be on equivalent places on each centre (ie if one is 2 from the left and 3 from the top, put the other one also 2 from the left and 3 from the top.)
2) Single layer slice in direction x to put one piece (a) into the place where the other piece is (b)
3) Outer slice move to move b away from the slice that you moved in 2)
4) On b's new slice, do another single layer slice of that slice in direction x
5) Undo the outer slice move of 3)
6) Undo the single slice of 2)
7) Redo the outer slice move of 3)
8) Undo the single slice of 4)



It sounds complicated written down, but once you see it done once it will become intuitive and not even algorithmic. I don't count it in the alg count for redux methods.

Oh, I misread your original statement: "all you need to solve any nxnxn cube is to solve a 4x4 and know center swapping commutator."
I thought you were saying you need the commutator for 4x4. My bad! anyway I'm sure that would come very naturally to me because I first learned to solve a 5x5 with no help or instructions at all and I did the entire thing with commutators. (So inefficient....)