[WR] Sebastian Weyer 26.03 4x4 avg

[AvGalen]

We don't often see conspiracy theories on speedsolving.

If I understand modern internet, would this be a moment to post a "gets popcorn" gif?

 

[Stefan]

If I had an average where something was scrambled wrong, or anything wonky happened, there's no ****ing way I'd post it

Good to know.

 

[qqwref]

In the US we have a principle where a suspect of a crime can't be forced to incriminate themselves. I think it's a good idea, why not apply it here too?

It's a rough road we're going down... something wrong with your average is evidence enough to disqualify you after the fact, even if it's not your fault (and even if you couldn't have possibly known at the time). Actually, I don't know why anyone would post their own official solve videos on the forum.

 

[Ollie]

In the US we have a principle where a suspect of a crime can't be forced to incriminate themselves. I think it's a good idea, why not apply it here too?

It's a rough road we're going down... something wrong with your average is evidence enough to disqualify you after the fact, even if it's not your fault (and even if you couldn't have possibly known at the time). Actually, I don't know why anyone would post their own official solve videos on the forum.

If you cut out the majority of the solve and left the last layer for each solve, for example, there would be no way to definitively prove if it came from an incorrect scramble? Anyone who has done FMC using CFOP knows there are many different LL's possible from inserting single moves or changing F2L inserts/algs slightly. Obviously the community won't benefit from the full solution, which would be a shame, but at least it protects the competitors.

Edit: GJ Sebastian

 

[XTowncuber]

If I saw something that broke a regulation in my video and was absolutely positive that it gave no advantage (eg accidental turning during inspection) I would probably not upload it. If it did give me an advantage I would upload it and be the first to say that it was illegitimate.

That's the difference for me.

 

[rowehessler]

he's seriously not uploading it?

 

[uyneb2000]

If we are going to be punished for something we can't control being on film, I wouldn't upload it.

WCA needs to rethink their regulations regarding this. We either film everything or nothing. We either disqualify everything not according to the regs and not just NRs, CRs, or WRs, or don't disqualify everything. It's not fair for those who get away, and those who deserve the times they get, only to be squandered by some careless judge or scrambler.

Judges, also, need to be experienced. If possible, the competitor should acknowledge anything that happens with the solve immediately and get a delegate. This way action can be taken promptly and not a day, a week, or who knows how long later, and it seems more reasonable. It's not just the judge's or scrambler's fault, it's also the competitor's responsibility to be aware of anything that happens.

 

[Lucas Garron]

WCA needs to rethink their regulations regarding this. We either film everything or nothing.

How do you reconcile the fact that we *can't* film everything, but people like to film their solves? (In fact, filming and sharing solves has been a core activity in the speedsolving community.)

We either disqualify everything not according to the regs and not just NRs, CRs, or WRs, or don't disqualify everything. It's not fair for those who get away, and those who deserve the times they get, only to be squandered by some careless judge or scrambler.

The Board has acted just the same for everything that has come to their attention.
I agree that it's a bit unfair that high-profile filmed solves come under higher scrutiny. But we also need to make clear that we hold all solves to the Regulations, and that nothing gets special treatment.

Suggestions for how to handle judging mistakes would be useful.

 

[Stefan]

How bad is it, really? Like, how often does something get invalidated because of a video and the solver disagrees?

 

[That70sShowDude]

he's seriously not uploading it?

Who said he wasn't uploading it?

Usually he doesn't upload them right away.

 

[AvGalen]

Question:

Who said he wasn't uploading it?

Usually he doesn't upload them right away.

Answer: EMI

He said to me he won't upload it, because he considers it too slow...
jk

How bad is it, really? Like, how often does something get invalidated because of a video and the solver disagrees?

Pyraminx incident lately is the first thing that comes to mind. The problem is that it is mostly WR's that will get analyzed to the bone after having already been approved by the judge. So I can understand why people will hesitate to put their WR online. It might be unexpectedly invalidated

 

[ajayd]

Do you see the jk on EMI's post?

 

[kcl]

Question:
Answer: EMI



Pyraminx incident lately is the first thing that comes to mind. The problem is that it is mostly WR's that will get analyzed to the bone after having already been approved by the judge. So I can understand why people will hesitate to put their WR online. It might be unexpectedly invalidated

I have two friends who have either lost or nearly lost WR's because of video. You can bet without doubt that I watched my NAR over countless times to make sure nothing was out of the ordinary. Like Drew said, I feel like if there were a small regulation error that gave no advantage I might not upload that solve. However, I will not voluntarily give myself an advantage just to keep a record, in that case it's wrong and I would admit to it with no hesitation.

 

[AvGalen]

Do you see the jk on EMI's post?

I do now, but I didn't when I was browsing this topic and had my screen brightness at the lowest because it was night. Thanks for pointing that out. Not sure I think that joke is funny

 

[Tim Major]

I was honestly just thinking that. If I had an average where something was scrambled wrong, or anything wonky happened, there's no ****ing way I'd post it

Since you film pretty much everything, if you didn't upload I just wouldn't respect your record, as I'd assume (or know considering you just posted this...) that something was wrong in the video.

I'm sure Sebastian is just taking his time and this discussion is pointless

 

[David Zemdegs]

Pyraminx incident lately is the first thing that comes to mind. The problem is that it is mostly WR's that will get analyzed to the bone after having already been approved by the judge. So I can understand why people will hesitate to put their WR online. It might be unexpectedly invalidated

Well that's the last video I'll ever upload . I don't know about popcorn but maybe Godwins law if it gets too silly?

 

[antoineccantin]

Pyraminx incident lately is the first thing that comes to mind. The problem is that it is mostly WR's that will get analyzed to the bone after having already been approved by the judge. So I can understand why people will hesitate to put their WR online. It might be unexpectedly invalidated

This must be especially true for 4x4/5x5 as well, since the chance of it being mis-scrambled is fairly high, and if someone noticed, it could mean disqualification.

 

[cubizh]

On this "not uploading because..." side topic, I think people should focus more in following the regulations and conduct themselves in an ethical manner above all else.
If someone points out that there's an irregularity with your solve and you can agree that something is not right, or even if you see it while watching the video yourself, you should be the first to acknowledge it and want to maintain the consistency of the results.

Being ethical in this sense is to do the right thing even when other people are not looking.
Ask yourself "Would I be ok if I knew a regulation was violated during my attempt but no one else noticed it?"
If the answer is yes, perhaps you should reflect on "Would I be ok with ending up with someone else's property, if no one would ever find out?". Food for thought.
I think one's true character is revealed in these situations.
I don't want to go into a deep ethical debate but I think in this very specific case of judging solves, the "following the regulations" approach should prevail.

There's a proper place to debate and present concrete examples of situations where the regulations don't do what you consider to be the right thing to do, and present sound suggestions to improve and fix the regulations. The regulations are not perfect. But if they are currently active, they should be applied.

Also, I need to point out something that most people are somewhat ignoring:

VIDEO EVIDENCE IS NOT EXCLUSIVELY USED TO DISCARD SOLVES!

It is actually used a lot more times in helping fix judging mistakes and providing evidence that can allow fixing mistakes, than DNFing solves.
Concrete example: Judge writes 12.17 ; score taker understand 12.77. If there's a video, the competitor can present this issue to the delegate, where video evidence is the most definitive way to argue.

What happens is it's a lot more impactful when it's applied to world class competitors than to everyone else.
There's always more attention and scrutiny towards fast people, but that's like in any sport. Consider UK's Primiership football matches with 25 camera angles versus League Two matches. That's just the way things are.


Going back to the OP, it would be great to see a video, as it's always nice to see world class solves, but since apparently only his own camera recorded the solves and no one else did, it's of course his decision to do what he wants with the footage, but hopefully we will be able to see some time.

 

[EMI]

Going back to the OP, it would be great to see a video, as it's always nice to see world class solves, but since apparently only his own camera recorded the solves and no one else did, it's of course his decision to do what he wants with the footage, but hopefully we will be able to see some time.

In fact I recorded the first four solves with my friend's camera (the first one only from a distance), and I believe all five solves were recorded by somebody else as well.

 

[Antonie faz fan]

In fact I recorded the first four solves with my friend's camera (the first one only from a distance), and I believe all five solves were recorded by somebody else as well.

this! i was there and witnessed it aswell.