Why you should learn COLL for 4x4x4

[fanwuq]

Blah,
can you post your LUR COLL algs?
And how do you recognize using your system?

 

[Anthony]

Blah,
can you post your LUR COLL algs?
And how do you recognize using your system?

I second that.

 

[blah]

Blah,
can you post your LUR COLL algs?
And how do you recognize using your system?

I second that.

I'll start working on that now. But don't get your hopes up. It's nothing new! It's just a really intuitive system that naturally came as I was trying to recognize cases. I'm not too sure how Dan and Lars (of VH) recognize because there really isn't a very comprehensive description on Dan's page, but I'm pretty sure mine is almost identical to theirs, only the Sune and Antisune cases are different.

 

[cpt.Justice]

As for recognizing, I find the way Rowe does it quite easy and fast (I'll admit, I suck at it. But it's obviously fast enough for him).
CBA to link his videos on youtube though

 

[oll+phase+sync]

... Not all of the hyperorientations even work for NMCxLL anyway.

What? Do you know wich cases don't work?

When reading your COLL Page http://cube.danrcohen.com/coll.html I wondered why your "recognition stickers" are not as I would have predicted

Not that I'm the biggest fan of hyperorientation, or think the page http://home.comcast.net/~quadricode/hyperorientations/ is easy to understand.

But getting NMCxLL for free, made me believe every roux solver who starts learning CMLL, should be adviced to learn Hyperorientation - am I wrong?
http://home.comcast.net/~quadricode/hyperorientations/

 

[masterofthebass]

What? Do you know wich cases don't work?

When reading your COLL Page http://cube.danrcohen.com/coll.html I wondered why your "recognition stickers" are not as I would have predicted

Not that I'm the biggest fan of hyperorientation, or think the page http://home.comcast.net/~quadricode/hyperorientations/ is easy to understand.

But getting NMCxLL for free, made me believe every roux solver who starts learning CMLL, should be adviced to learn Hyperorientation - am I wrong?
http://home.comcast.net/~quadricode/hyperorientations/

Hyperorientations work for like 90% of R2 NMCLL, but in reality, any CLL recognition technique is just a tool to learn. At a certain point, you end up learning what the case looks like, so whatever you use can work.

 

[Kirjava]

You should learn C*LL for 4x4x4 so you don't have to do step 6 in two looks.

:3

 

[reyrey]

What? Do you know wich cases don't work?

When reading your COLL Page http://cube.danrcohen.com/coll.html I wondered why your "recognition stickers" are not as I would have predicted

Not that I'm the biggest fan of hyperorientation, or think the page http://home.comcast.net/~quadricode/hyperorientations/ is easy to understand.

But getting NMCxLL for free, made me believe every roux solver who starts learning CMLL, should be adviced to learn Hyperorientation - am I wrong?
http://home.comcast.net/~quadricode/hyperorientations/

You should learn C*LL for 4x4x4 so you don't have to do step 6 in two looks.

:3

No, you should learn not to bump 2 year old threads.

 

[waffle=ijm]

no kirjava and masterofthebass can
no one can tell them what to do :3

cuz they cool and stuff.

 

[vcuber13]

You should learn C*LL for 4x4x4 so you don't have to do step 6 in two looks.

:3

i almost always need to do step 6 2 look, but i switched methods

 

[Kirjava]

That's a massively douchey thing to say.

There's nothing wrong with a bump when it's adding new content.

There's especially nothing wrong in replying to a thread that has already been bumped.

However, backseat moderation *is* something that is frowned upon.

You can't complain about people having a legit discussion about cubing. You obviously don't understand *why* bumping old threads is not liked.

 

[masterofthebass]

That's a massively douchey thing to say.

There's nothing wrong with a bump when it's adding new content.

There's especially nothing wrong in replying to a thread that has already been bumped.

However, backseat moderation *is* something that is frowned upon.

You can't complain about people having a legit discussion about cubing. You obviously don't understand *why* bumping old threads is not liked.

exactly this. A person bumped a thread with a new question pertaining to the topic of that thread. THIS IS WHAT THREADS ARE FOR. They exist to contain information. If new information is added to a thread, regardless of the amount of time between posts, it makes the thread relevant again.

Please let the moderators do their jobs and moderate the forum. I would not have replied to the question if it wasn't properly posted.

 

[oll+phase+sync]

Disclaimer: This is nothing new. Just some numbers trying to convince you to do what the thread title says.
After doing your OLL parity alg which pops up half the time, assuming you're not stupid, your chances of getting an LL with all edges oriented is 5/16 on a 4x4x4, as opposed to 1/8 on a 3x3x3.

If I understand correctly if I just know 2 parity algs for the 4x4x4 I already get this 5/16 ? How many parity algs do I need to know to have 16/16 ? Is Somebody using this?

Hyperorientations work for like 90% of R2 NMCLL, but in reality, any CLL recognition technique is just a tool to learn. At a certain point, you end up learning what the case looks like, so whatever you use can work.

Have you found a way to handle the missing 10% ( exsample scramble R2U2 RU2R'U'RU'R')

Hyperorientation is still a nice option (for Roux), but not providing real NMCLL makes it loose alot to me.


P.S. regarding bumping - just change your forum display setting to show newest posts first.

 

[Athefre]

Hyperorientation is still a nice option (for Roux), but not providing real NMCLL makes it loose alot to me.

Can you provide evidence that R/R' blocks provide an advantage in a large enough number of solves? xNMCLL recognition is as fast and even faster in some cases than regular CLL recognition and I can get over memorizing the 83 sequences. But, in my five years of experimenting with it:

- I haven't found that lucky cases happen often enough during the second block.
- I haven't found an easy way to recognize EO as fast as with matching and R2 blocks, other than tracking a certain L/R edge before Step 4. I would even be fine with finding a completely different Step 4 solution.
- The extra one move during Step 4 is sometimes annoying and slightly awkward.

I really want some new cuber to learn NMCMLL and prove how fast it can be.

 

[Kirjava]

R/R' is just too much messing about to be worth it imo. R2 is an easy addition that doesn't require much effort to implement.

 

[Athefre]

That's definitely what it seems like.

 

[vcuber13]

If I understand correctly if I just know 2 parity algs for the 4x4x4 I already get this 5/16 ? How many parity algs do I need to know to have 16/16 ? Is Somebody using this?

well if theres oll parity theres an odd amount of edges flipped, since there is 4 edges there will either be 1 flipped right or 3. the one people use flip one dedge, so if you use 2 oll parity algs you will always have all 4 dedges oriented.
also that other parity alg you use is for pll parity (i dont see how it couldnt) which isnt relevant for this topic

 

[oll+phase+sync]

Can you provide evidence that R/R' blocks provide an advantage ... 83 sequences.

I can't proof, it's a speed advantage - and I also try to avoid it on serious speedsolves,
but the whole blockbuilding thing feels much more relaxing to me when not even careing about R-alignment.

xNMCLL recognition

What is that?

- I haven't found an easy way to recognize EO as fast as with matching and R2 blocks, other than tracking a certain L/R edge before Step 4. I would even be fine with finding a completely different Step 4 solution.

Tracking one L/R-edge is enought, but I still track both - wich makes EO comparable but it keeps worse. I also planned to use some Watermann EO to improve EO (especially in this case), but never did.

- The extra one move during Step 4 is sometimes annoying and slightly awkward.

at least sometimes you even get a better Ending than normal.

 

[oll+phase+sync]

...
also that other parity alg you use is for pll parity (i dont see how it couldnt) which isnt relevant for this topic

In fact I was thinking of a set of algs that correct OLL Parity + PLL Parity + EO in one go, but maybe regognition would suck.

But after COLL it would be easier to do an EPLL + PLL Parity ( 1 solved + 1 H + 2 Z + 4 U ) makes 8 PLL parity algs ( not sure I counted right)

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

EPLL+Parity is 8 algs total,
Ua,Ub,H,Z
Adjacent & Opposite PLL parity
Cyclic parity (edges are a U/U' turn away) and an Odd case (figure-8 cycle). I have algs for them here: http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/User:MaeLSTRoM/Z4