Why rounds?

[One Wheel]

I'm not sure where else to ask this, so I'll ask here and if the thread is moved or deleted that's ok.

This question is 10% complaint, 90% just wondering, but why do organizers of competitions put multiple rounds of one puzzle in local competitions? I understand for big competitions it's fun to have the best compete head to head, but at a local comp why would anybody put, say, 3 rounds of 3x3 rather than 1 round of 3x3 and 1 round of 5x5?

 

[sqAree]

From a competitor's view: I prefer 3x3 over 5x5 and want to have more chances to get official pbs.

 

[One Wheel]

From a competitor's view: I prefer 3x3 over 5x5 and want to have more chances to get official pbs.

Sure, but I prefer 5x5 over 3x3. Why should your preference take priority over mine? And the number of competitions that don't have 3x3 is vanishingly small, but the number of competitions that don't have any given other event is quite large. I can go to any of 8 competitions in North America this weekend alone to set a on in 3x3, but if I want a pb in 3x3 with feet there is only one in New Jersey this weekend, and 5 total between now and April.

 

[sqAree]

Sure, but I prefer 5x5 over 3x3. Why should your preference take priority over mine? And the number of competitions that don't have 3x3 is vanishingly small, but the number of competitions that don't have any given other event is quite large. I can go to any of 8 competitions in North America this weekend alone to set a on in 3x3, but if I want a pb in 3x3 with feet there is only one in New Jersey this weekend, and 5 total between now and April.

Well, I guess now we found out "why" from the organizer's view: He prefers 3x3 over 5x5. Of course, when organizing a competition, the schedule will be inspired by my own preferences.

And regarding mass comps with 3x3: It's still more efficient to go to one comp and have 15 3x3 attempts than go to 3 different comps to have the same; also some people just can't afford to go to comps too frequently.

 

[Jaysammey777]

Well they are competitions...

Plus it's generally better (imo) for comps to have less events and more rounds of the events. Basically forcing concentration on few events. It's easier for practice and helps me just focus on doing those events.

Also from now until April, not all comps are announced, just for January they are. And unfortunatly for feet (which is an event I like) many Americans find it disgusting, so that's not an event that will have a lot do fame.

 

[One Wheel]

Plus it's generally better (imo) for comps to have less events and more rounds of the events. Basically forcing concentration on few events.

This is what I'm having trouble understanding. If anything having more events would allow somebody who is really good to show that across more events, while at the same time allowing somebody who is not so good to focus their practice on a less popular event and have a chance of doing well in that event.

 

[Dash Lambda]

It's a function of popularity and time.
Popularity is an obvious one, if so few people want to compete in an event then why dedicate time to that event? They can't serve the minority.
As for time, it takes much longer to do big cubes than small cubes. They cut off rounds because often it's just not practical to spend that much time on one event. Similarly, 6x6 and 7x7 (along with some other events) use the mean of 3 rather than average of 5 format.

And the reason so much attention is payed to 3x3 is that it's quite directly the main event. It's the original, most popular, and most developed one out of all of them.

Competitions aren't really run perfectly, but they still have to operate in a time limit (most of the time) and they have to cater to the majority of the people attending.

 

[tx789]

Organiser will choose events either based on what they want or the popularity of each event will be considered. The amount of time and expected competitor would also be considered.

 

[One Wheel]

This is slightly off topic, but how much do you think organizers include events because they are popular, and how much is it that events are popular because they are included in competitions?

 

[pglewis]

For the comp I'm going to:

3x3: 116 people
5x5: 43
7x7: 17

Multiple rounds make sense to me with over 100 competitors for 3x3; 43 competitors in an event with longer judging-table time makes a lot less sense to me, completely objectively.

 

[One Wheel]

For the comp I'm going to:

3x3: 116 people
5x5: 43
7x7: 17

Multiple rounds make sense to me with over 100 competitors for 3x3; 43 competitors in an event with longer judging-table time makes a lot less sense to me, completely objectively.

The thing with rounds is that some of those 116 people will do 10 or 15 solves instead of 5, whereas if there were only one round everybody would have one chance to do an Ao5, and you might have time to do a round of 4x4 or feet as well.

 

[pglewis]

The thing with rounds is that some of those 116 people will do 10 or 15 solves instead of 5, whereas if there were only one round everybody would have one chance to do an Ao5, and you might have time to do a round of 4x4 or feet as well.

Including more events per comp is a valid point, especially with qualifying times being adopted for nationals. I can see both sides of the coin though. North American organizers seem to be making an excellent effort to make sure all events are accessible within a region:

This competition and MCC Alpha 2017 together will hold all 18 WCA events to give local competitors the chance to qualify for US Nationals 2017.

Plus, I'm happy to see Lucas and Drew get a few more 3x3 solves at this comp... just to see what happens

 

[Chree]

One of the major reasons to have multiple rounds from an Organizer/Delegate perspective:

Smaller events, like 2x2 or Pyraminx, are really popular, and usually require multiple Groups per Round. It's not required, but it's a best practice to have different scrambles between groups. It reduces the likelihood of information leakage. For instance, if there's a 4 move scramble in the first heat, you can bet everyone's going to know about it by the 2nd heat. But that obviously introduces the possibility of One group getting way luckier with scrambles than another. It would be unfair to choose the winner of the event based on different scrambles when luck is such a huge factor. So deciding a winner must be done with the same set of scrambles, thus necessitating an additional Round (or 2). It's gotten to the point where we can't host certain events unless we leave room for multiple rounds.


The justification for having multiple rounds for events where luck is NOT much of a factor (ie, big cubes):

The longer the event, the LESS likely we get to host it very often. When I organize a competition, I usually have 4x4 OR 5x5... 6x6 OR 7x7, but not typically both. While these sorts of events usually only get 1 Combined Final from me, I can imagine competitors would appreciate the opportunity to earn more attempts, since it might be a while before they get to attempt that event again in the future.

 

[One Wheel]

The lucky scramble argument is one I can get on board with. I'm still not sure about 3x3, but for 2x2 and pyraminx that makes sense. I don't like those events, but that's an argument to lose another day. Thank you for a reason better than "I like it" or "popularity."

 

[EntireTV]

to get rid of n00bs in the first rounds

 

[Chree]

The lucky scramble argument is one I can get on board with. I'm still not sure about 3x3, but for 2x2 and pyraminx that makes sense. I don't like those events, but that's an argument to lose another day. Thank you for a reason better than "I like it" or "popularity."

To borrow a few lines from @Kit Clement, and add a few of my own:

The case for 3x3 is because it's the main event. The event we use to decide who wins the whole comp. The one people want the most opportunity to do well at. And is the most fun to have multiple rounds of.

3x3 is the reason why you, me, and all of us are here. And we should always have as many rounds of 3x3 as possible.

Edit: Unless you're doing a specialty comp like FMC USA or Total Breakdown or All BLD or whatever. They skip 3x3, but I guess that's their point.

 

[One Wheel]

To borrow a few lines from @Kit Clement, and add a few of my own:

The case for 3x3 is because it's the main event. The event we use to decide who wins the whole comp. The one people want the most opportunity to do well at. And is the most fun to have multiple rounds of.

3x3 is the reason why you, me, and all of us are here. And we should always have as many rounds of 3x3 as possible.

Edit: Unless you're doing a specialty comp like FMC USA or Total Breakdown or All BLD or whatever. They skip 3x3, but I guess that's their point.

That's also fair. At this point I prefer larger cubes, feet, and blind enough that it wouldn't bother me personally if regular 3x3 speed solve were dropped, but it is a classic and where almost all people start. I know one guy who started with 2x2, and last I talked to him I don't think he'd learned to solve a 3x3, but I digress.