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What's in a name? CFOP or Fridrich?

SenorJuan

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Sep 26, 2014
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... like "Finish two layers" ? FF2L ?
It's the ambiguity between 'first two layers' and F2L that causes most of my dislike. If I talk about solving the 'first two layers' , I don't want some people to interpret that as meaning 'solving the four slots' .
 

Llewelys

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Why is it OK for O to stand for OLL and P to stand for PLL, but not for F to stand for F2L?
Because OLL and PLL (just like cross) describe how you solve the cube (orienting and permuting pieces of the last layer).
F2L describe what you solve (the first two layers), not how: cross is part of the first two layers of the cube as well.
 

Sue Doenim

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I don't think that this has anything to do with her being a woman. Regarding that, I believe @Sue Doenim , who, given her name, is presumably female, has made consistent contributions to the new methods thread.
lol
Sorry, I'm actually a guy. I picked the name "Sue Doenim" as a pun on "psuedonym", which means "fake name". Your point still stands, though. I know that @Aerma is both female and a valued contributor.
 

mark49152

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Because OLL and PLL (just like cross) describe how you solve the cube (orienting and permuting pieces of the last layer).
F2L describe what you solve (the first two layers), not how: cross is part of the first two layers of the cube as well.
So, do you object to the C as well? :)
 

Aerma

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lol
Sorry, I'm actually a guy. I picked the name "Sue Doenim" as a pun on "psuedonym", which means "fake name". Your point still stands, though. I know that @Aerma is both female and a valued contributor.
Oh dang, I didn't know I was valued :p most of my proposed methods are either not new or pretty bad haha.
 

Llewelys

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So, do you object to the C as well? :)
No: how do you solve the cube using Fridrich?
- You make a cross
- You build corner-edge pairs
- You orient the last layer pieces
- You permute them
So cross is a valid step.

The F in CFOP is causing debate because once you've solved the cross, saying "now do F2L" means "now finish solving the first two layers", but you could solve it in different ways:
- by building pairs (Fridrich)
- by solving all the corners then all the edges (beginner method)
- by solving all the edges minus one and use the free slot to keyhole and solve the corners
- ...

I think the debate here between CPOP (P=pair) and CFOP (F=F2L) is to avoid confusion between:
- I can solve F2L in 10 seconds
- I can solve the first two layers (F2L?) in 12 seconds: cross in 2, F2L in 10
 
Last edited:

cubeshepherd

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I think the debate here between CPOP (P=pair) and CFOP (F=F2L) is to avoid confusion between:
- I can solve F2L in 10 seconds
- I can solve the first two layers (F2L?) in 12 seconds: cross in 2, F2L in 10
Why not just leave it at CFOP, and say that the F stand for Fridrich? That would mean that the method still has her name as well as all the other steps that she did not come up with.

Please don't take my post to seriously...but it is something to think about...kind of
 

jdh3000

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Apr 4, 2017
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Recently I've seen lots of comments that we shouldn't call CFOP the Fridrich Method because Jessica Fridrich didn't invent it. But I've not seen anything to support that other than a small unresearched fragment from a wiki page. I was under the impression that she had independently invented the method that grouped the solve into the four steps "Cross - F2L - OLL - PLL". If I'm wrong I'd love to know how, and if anyone has any links or information about the development of CFOP/Fridrich then it would be great if they could be mentioned here so that maybe the wiki could be clarified.

Here is my understanding of the development of Fridrich's method. Fridrich learned a beginners method which started with the Cross (originated by David Singmaster), which had a multi stage orientation section on the last layer. I can't find the source, but I'm sure I read that a friend showed Fridrich how nice the 'Easy T' was, because using the standard FRUR'U'F' it would orient the whole layer, Which gave Fridrich the idea of doing all the Orientation in one alg every time (OLL). I'm not sure what Permutation method Fridrich learned but I can easily imagine doing PLL in one alg being a logical extension of the OLL idea.
I've heard that Fridrich didn't use full F2L as we know it now at the '82 world championships. Also it may have been someone there that showed Fridrich a nicer way of doing it.

It seems to be well known that Hans Dockhorn and Anneke Treep also came up with OLL/PLL in the early 80's, but I'm not sure what method they used for the first two layers.

I've not heard of anyone before Fridrich using the structure Cross - F2L - OLL - PLL, also it seems to be the case that Fridrich independently invented OLL/PLL (that is to say other people may have also done it, but they didn't influence Fridrich).

Given that information I see no qualms with calling it the Fridrich Method. But other people do, so I'm curious what I could have gotten wrong, or what other information there is on the subject?

-----------------

Updated info.
Ok from this page by Fridrich.

Fridrich originally learned a Layer by Layer method that went: First layer, Second layer edges, EO, EP, CO, CP

And on developing the method:


So it would seem that Fridrich did independently invent OLL/PLL as a two stage method.

Also from this quote, it suggests Fridrich was either using a basic version of F2L, or not all of the F2L algs were published (I'd guess at the former):


That'll teach me for not reading ahead:


----

Holy **** a message board archive from 1980!
http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Martin.Schoenert/Cube-Lovers/

Will take a while to read through it, but that looks like it could be handy for some cubing history.

------

According to this old thread.
Guus Razoux Schultz says that he taught Fridrich some of Rene Schoof's F2L method. Also that the 'Treep-Dockhorn method' did have Cross + 4 pairs + OLL + PLL, and was published in early 81 (supposedly before Fridrich). But I'm not sure where those quotes came from.

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This page by Singmaster, confirms that at the 82 championships Fridrich was using a Layer by Layer approach, while Razoux Schultz was seemingly the only one doing real F2L Pairs.
CFOP is easier to write is why I like it... Whoever popularizes something usually gets the credit.
 
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