WCA Multi-BLD Ranks

[philkt731]

If you go to http://www.worldcubeassociation.org...gionId=&years=&show=100+Persons&single=Single
It shows Tim in first with his 24/24 and then Rowe (22/30), then Dennis (10/10), then way down at #45 is Ryosuke Mondo with 17/18. Should'nt he be in second? What's the deal here?

 

[masterofthebass]

They didn't change the results from before the regulation change. Ryosuke's attempt was done before April 11th, therefore he was scored as the old event. Rowe's attempt was done this past weekend, so his result is a point value of 14, beating Dennis' 10 points.

 

[joshuali]

but stil i think ryosuke's attempt should be considered as 16 beating rowe's 14 points...the fact that it was done earlier following the old rules...doesn't relli change how we assess it right...? i duno

 

[shelley]

Why can't they rank old results following the new rules? It's not like the new rules made anyone change their solution or strategy. Everyone's still trying to solve as many cubes blindfolded as possible.

 

[pjk]

Yeah, I agree with Shelley. That makes absolutely no sense why Ryosuke isn't second.

 

[Ron]

Hi,

You obviously missed the discussion on the WCA forum.

Under the old regulations a miss would put you below all people that solved all cubes. Under the new regulations a miss is not considered that bad anymore. I think this also changes the strategy of this event.

9i3) If the regulations for an event are changed, then the old regional records stand until they are broken under the new regulations.

Therefore we decided to do it this way. It looks a bit ugly now, but I am sure we forget about it in a few months, once everyone has broken their best results.

Thanks,

Ron

 

[pete]

It's not like the new rules made anyone change their solution or strategy.

I think it does change the strategy, mostly for cubers who are solving large number of cubes.
This no longer is an event aimed at perfection, under old rules errors were not tolerated and overestimating your own ability was not tolerated. If you messed up orientation of last 2 corners on your last cube of 20, you would end up behind everyone who completed 2/2.

Under the new rules it's more of a speed/quantity contest, you can take on large number of cubes and can afford to go through the memorization process quicker because you know if you make some memo mistakes then so what, you end up 18/20 or 14/20 or 12/20 - most likely still winning the event.

Also, if you realize you made an error on one of your earlier cubes, you can make a decision to leave that one out if you estimate that finding the error or fixing the error would take way too long (you can instead solve your next 3 cubes rather than risking going over the time limit).

Under the oldes rules you would have to memorize better (that takes more time) and execute 100% thus being forced to fix any errors you are aware of (even if you knew that fixing such error is going to take 10 minutes).

 

[qqwref]

It looks a bit ugly now, but I am sure we forget about it in a few months, once everyone has broken their best results.

I think you severely overestimate the number of competitions most people go to. Ryosuke Mondo has only done multiple blindfolded at three competitions ever; he might not have another chance for a while. Maybe it will settle down after a year or so, but definitely not a few months...

 

[AvGalen]

Why can't they rank old results following the new rules? It's not like the new rules made anyone change their solution or strategy. Everyone's still trying to solve as many cubes blindfolded as possible.

Others have already told you some reasons why strategies did get changed. Another reason is really important for people like Clement Gallet (and me and Hans van der Zeijden). He solves corner orientations of all cubes first, then all edge orientations, then all corner permutations and finally all edge permutations. That means that if he runs out of time almost none of his cubes will be fully solved, even if he memoed/executed everything perfectly. I don't know if that was why he got 0/11 at German Open, but this strategy now has a clear disadvantage.

 

[Stefan]

under old rules errors were not tolerated and overestimating your own ability was not tolerated. If you messed up orientation of last 2 corners on your last cube of 20, you would end up behind everyone who completed 2/2.

What? If two corners are your sole mistake in 20 cubes, that has *nothing* to do with "overestimating your own ability".

 

[pete]

under old rules errors were not tolerated and overestimating your own ability was not tolerated. If you messed up orientation of last 2 corners on your last cube of 20, you would end up behind everyone who completed 2/2.

What? If two corners are your sole mistake in 20 cubes, that has *nothing* to do with "overestimating your own ability".

being picky again
errors not tolerated ==> 2 corners wrong = DNF

i failed to provide example for the other scenario, sorry - here it goes :
overestimating your ability ==> i.e. nominating 22 cubes when your PB is 12

i'm not judging which scoring rule is better, just pointing out the differences.

 

[AvGalen]

Nothing wrong with overestimating. Tim never got 24/24 before and my PB in a competition was 0 correct (not just 0 out of 2, I never had a single cube correct). At home I had about 1/5 succesrate for single and never tried multiple. But I got 2/2 anyway officialy anyway.

 

[Swordsman Kirby]

under old rules errors were not tolerated and overestimating your own ability was not tolerated. If you messed up orientation of last 2 corners on your last cube of 20, you would end up behind everyone who completed 2/2.

What? If two corners are your sole mistake in 20 cubes, that has *nothing* to do with "overestimating your own ability".

being picky again
errors not tolerated ==> 2 corners wrong = DNF

i failed to provide example for the other scenario, sorry - here it goes :
overestimating your ability ==> i.e. nominating 22 cubes when your PB is 12

i'm not judging which scoring rule is better, just pointing out the differences.

What about doing 2 when your PB is 1?

 

[pete]

What about doing 2 when your PB is 1?

just to clarify this : I'm not criticizing anything (or anyone). Just pointing out the differences between old and new rules and why I think strategies may have changed. And lets not forget time limit has changed too.

 

[pjk]

Hi,

You obviously missed the discussion on the WCA forum.

Under the old regulations a miss would put you below all people that solved all cubes. Under the new regulations a miss is not considered that bad anymore. I think this also changes the strategy of this event.

9i3) If the regulations for an event are changed, then the old regional records stand until they are broken under the new regulations.

Therefore we decided to do it this way. It looks a bit ugly now, but I am sure we forget about it in a few months, once everyone has broken their best results.

Thanks,

Ron

Yes, I did miss the discussion. Why does rule 9i3 exist? Is it due to the fact that BLD regulations changed, and the old records still exist?

 

[AvGalen]

Good observation about the time limit Pete. Last year Hans got a NR of 2/2 in about 28 minutes. I broke it with 2/2 in about 27 minutes. Both these NR's would now be disqualifies. Actually, that is what happened to Hans in Germany 2/2 in 21.xx, so 1/2 after 20 minutes, so 0 points, so disqualified.

That is how much multiblind has changed in 1 year (and 4 other Dutchies have done multiple with Joel being the current NR-holder with 4/4)

 

[tim]

Actually, that is what happened to Hans in Germany 2/2 in 21.xx, so 1/2 after 20 minutes, so 0 points, so disqualified.

0 points don't equal a DNF. Ron changed the rule to "less than 0 points".

 

[Rune]

Why can't they rank old results following the new rules? It's not like the new rules made anyone change their solution or strategy. Everyone's still trying to solve as many cubes blindfolded as possible.

Who knows? Say, he is sure he made a mistake in his first attempt. By the old law all is gone, he may from now play more relaxed and maybe get a better result than he would have got with the new law.

 

[Stefan]

overestimating your ability ==> i.e. nominating 22 cubes when your PB is 12

Nothing wrong with overestimating. Tim never got 24/24 before

I wouldn't call those overestimations, but perfectly valid estimations. Tim had perfectly solved 12 cubes in 44 minutes before and he had enough mental routes for 24. So why shouldn't he be able to do 24? And when I solved a 5x5 blindfolded in competition, I had never before even attempted a 4x4 or 5x5 blindsolve. But I knew I was able to.

 

[shelley]

It looks a bit ugly now, but I am sure we forget about it in a few months, once everyone has broken their best results.

I think you severely overestimate the number of competitions most people go to. Ryosuke Mondo has only done multiple blindfolded at three competitions ever; he might not have another chance for a while. Maybe it will settle down after a year or so, but definitely not a few months...

Agreed. Not everyone has the opportunity to go to eight competitions a year. And many competitions don't even run a multi-BLD event because it takes so long.