Three Style Not Blind

[Rainger]

I had a question, refrain form judging me harshly ha, would there ever be a reason for using a blindfolded method such as three style as your main method without a blindfold? I know that the other methods are very optimized where as blindfolded methods are meant for easy to follow patterns and such in your head but some beginner cubers may only want to learn one method starting out and may want to get into blindfolded solving eventually. I figure the answer is a simple “no” but I would like to start the discussion.

Thanks,

Rainger

 

[fun at the joy]

learn 5-Style
some work but you can get decently fast with it (+ world class 3bld as a bonus)

 

[shadowslice e]

There are some top class blders who use 3style as their main 3x3 method though none are sub-10 with it.

Given the time investment required to do 3style quickly, it's just not worth it. 3-style by itself is more work than any sighted method.

With that said, there might be an argument for teaching M2/OP (or even just pure op) if the only aim is to be able to solve a cube with no regards to speed.

 

[GenTheSnail]

With that said, there might be an argument for teaching M2/OP (or even just pure op) if the only aim is to be able to solve a cube with no regards to speed.

I remember reading on Stefan's site (or maybe some other tutorial) that some people learned how to solve using just OP as opposed to beginners, because there are less algs to learn.
I want to try teaching just OP to someone, although one of the main barriers I can see is that you would have to teach them both Y perm and J perm right off the back as opposed to letting them fumble through sexy while they get through the first two layer' on their own.

 

[xyzzy]

I want to try teaching just OP to someone, although one of the main barriers I can see is that you would have to teach them both Y perm and J perm right off the back as opposed to letting them fumble through sexy while they get through the first two layer' on their own.

You could get by with just one 2c2e alg, although the setups would get worse/longer.

 

[Rainger]

learn 5-Style
some work but you can get decently fast with it (+ world class 3bld as a bonus)

As a main?

 

[Deleted member 51471]

As a main?

It was a joke I think.

 

[Cuberstache]

Ultimately, what it boils down to is that the movecount for 3-style is far higher than that of CFOP, roughly double (~100/~50) at the highest level for both. Even though ergonomics is better and lookahead is nonexistent assuming you memo in inspection, the higher movecount offsets those two benefits and always will.

 

[Sub1Hour]

Ultimately, what it boils down to is that the movecount for 3-style is far higher than that of CFOP, roughly double (~100/~50) at the highest level for both. Even though ergonomics is better and lookahead is nonexistent assuming you memo in inspection, the higher movecount offsets those two benefits and always will.

Yeah. Even though your TPS will be very high your limit will always be much higher than any other method despite the ability to 1-look and ergonomics.

 

[lucarubik]

i average 22 with 3style without inspection and 13 with cfop, with inspection and practice i'd be right about there, it's a way to commit to 3bld being able to compete in 3x3

 

[dudefaceguy]

would there ever be a reason for using a blindfolded method such as three style as your main method without a blindfold?

Fun. I have done almost nothing except 3 style for a couple of weeks, mostly blind but also sighted. It's just that much fun.

 

[Rainger]

Fun. I have done almost nothing except 3 style for a couple of weeks, mostly blind but also sighted. It's just that much fun.

What are your times? What’s possible?

 

[dudefaceguy]

What are your times? What’s possible?

I'm not really concerned with being fast - I make up the commutators on the fly rather than memorizing them. I just do it for fun, since I will never get competitive times no matter what. After a learning 3 style as my first blind method a couple of weeks ago, I can do a sighted solve in about 2 minutes. Full blind solves take me about 3-4 minutes. This is compared to my Roux times of 35 seconds.

Top blind solvers can easily get under 20 seconds including memorization, so if you give them 15 seconds of inspection time (and a chance to fix errors after they finish execution) I imagine they could do a sighted 3 style solve in 10 seconds. Here is Jack Cai doing this exact thing:

 

[Rainger]

I'm not really concerned with being fast - I make up the commutators on the fly rather than memorizing them. I just do it for fun, since I will never get competitive times no matter what. After a learning 3 style as my first blind method a couple of weeks ago, I can do a sighted solve in about 2 minutes. Full blind solves take me about 3-4 minutes. This is compared to my Roux times of 35 seconds.

Top blind solvers can easily get under 20 seconds including memorization, so if you give them 15 seconds of inspection time (and a chance to fix errors after they finish execution) I imagine they could do a sighted 3 style solve in 10 seconds. Here is Jack Cai doing this exact thing:

That’s awesome! Thanks for the link

 

[AlphaCuber is awesome]

I’m pretty sure jack has a sub 10 official average but it’s still slower than speedsolving methods

 

[dudefaceguy]

I’m pretty sure jack has a sub 10 official average but it’s still slower than speedsolving methods

He is slower than 2% of speed solvers and faster than 98%:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cubers/comments/9rw5lx

 

[Cuberstache]

He is slower than 2% of speed solvers and faster than 98%

Interesting statistic! I would like to add something though: He's in the top 2% for 3x3, but he has the WR for 3BLD (mean). So top 2% is effectively the best you can possibly be with 3-style - still nearly double the WR average for 3x3. Think about it. If 3-style was viable as a speedsolving method, you would expect the WR holder in 3BLD to be close to the WR for 3x3 - not over 2000th in the world.

 

[dudefaceguy]

Interesting statistic! I would like to add something though: He's in the top 2% for 3x3, but he has the WR for 3BLD (mean). So top 2% is effectively the best you can possibly be with 3-style - still nearly double the WR average for 3x3. Think about it. If 3-style was viable as a speedsolving method, you would expect the WR holder in 3BLD to be close to the WR for 3x3 - not over 2000th in the world.

Yes - it's not competitive sighted methods, but it's possible to be faster than most cubers if you are very good. You can probably expect to have double the times you would have with a sighted method, if you put the same amount of work in. So, if you are in the 50th percentile then you would have a time of about 1 minute using sighted 3 style as a regular 3x3 method.