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The WDC and Brazilian Community Rant. (See latest edit, final decision)

DesertWolf

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1. A delegate could have appointed a trusted person to watch over everyone in the bld room (sketchy way to do things imo but it would be better than not having anyone)
2. There were 66 people at this comp lol, it’s not unusual for delegates to solo delegate 70+ people at comp so why not have 2 watch over the non-bld part and then have 1 watch over the bld. Should be easy for them to have less than 33 people each to watch over competing.
3. Also to note another thing in point 2, not everyone competes at once so they probably had even less competitors they needed to watch over lol
Yeah i'm not saying it was a valid reason (or atleast if i said so then i phrased it wrongly) i was just pointing out that this is a more common problem. So targeting these three specific delegates for something that is done by other delegates for this specific scenario is what bothered me. As i said i'm just talking about this single point.
 
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Yeah i'm not saying it was a valid reason (or atleast if i said so then i phrased it wrongly) i was just pointing out that this is a more common problem. So targeting these three specific delegates for something that is done by other delegates for this specific scenario is what bothered me. As i said i'm just talking about this single point.
Is this happening in other places? If so that’s an issue that needs to be addressed.
 

Kit Clement

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I personally don't have the motivation or obligation to really delve into this to form a well-thought opinion, but I can't help but notice that the primary focus of discussion is on mostly how people acted and interacted rather than the actual evidence. Assuming innocence, any change from the WDC will happen more easily with cooperation from them rather than public outrage, and potentially from the WEC too if the WDC is not acting appropriately.
 

weatherman223

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I personally don't have the motivation or obligation to really delve into this to form a well-thought opinion, but I can't help but notice that the primary focus of discussion is on mostly how people acted and interacted rather than the actual evidence. Assuming innocence, any change from the WDC will happen more easily with cooperation from them rather than public outrage, and potentially from the WEC too if the WDC is not acting appropriately.
I can completely see this Kit. Let me quickly write a paragraph on the evidence.

I am very disappointed on how the committee handled this case and their bias just because of speculation as seen from the excerpts and facebook posts. However, another point I should mention is that the WDC fails to realize that the evidence is right in front of them: Fabio's entire youtube channel and entire Reddit account. However, they fail to recognize this because of Lorenzo's obsession over the videos possibly being faked. Fabio has submitted a full appeal to the Board and Ethics committee backed by many top solvers with videos and textual evidence and as Sebastiano mentioned earlier it seems the WDC is reinvestigating and issuing their final decision soon. (DISCLAIMER: I don't have any of the videos that Fabio submitted to the board)

I will reiterate: Fabio is 100% innocent. There is no way that he could have cheated, and there is no proof that he cheated. The WDC clearly failed to see this according to the Facebook posts and the emails. The community deserves to be outraged over this and demanding change.

I hope the WDC can, like you say, cooperate with the case and the community to hopefully change and prohibit future incidents like these.

Edit: Grammar and changing place of disclaimer
 

porkynator

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(...)
However, another point I should mention is that the WDC fails to realize that the evidence is right in front of them: Fabio's entire youtube channel and entire Reddit account. However, they fail to recognize this because of Lorenzo's obsession over the videos possibly being faked. (...)
I have to admit I also find some of Fabio's video quite suspiscious, in particular a 4BLD solve with a total of 3:05 and 46s memo. So it is not "Lorenzo's obsession". More people have been consulted on this as well.
I simply don't see how someone's claims on reddit can be considered evidence of anything. Can't people lie online?
 
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I have to admit I also find some of Fabio's video quite suspiscious, in particular a 4BLD solve with a total of 3:05 and 46s memo. So it is not "Lorenzo's obsession". More people have been consulted on this as well.
I simply don't see how someone's claims on reddit can be considered evidence of anything. Can't people lie online?
So your saying that Fabio and all the delegates, including the judge, should meet up in person to discuss the issue?
 

DesertWolf

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Is this happening in other places? If so that’s an issue that needs to be addressed.
Yh that's kind of where i was getting too.
Edit: I'm talking mainly from videos i saw of BLD attempts which clearly indicate this sort of behaviour. I haven't been to a comp where this has happened but that's because I've never been to a comp with a "Long" Blind event happening at the same time as another.
 

weatherman223

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No, people can lie also in real life. I am just saying that reddit coments are not evidence for Fabio's innocence.
Alright, so I’m going to ask you a few questions. Apologies once again for the formatting.

So I’m your personal opinion, do you think Fabio has lied about blind progress on reddit for the past two years? If you think so, why was he so eager to help other blinders on reddit as well? EDIT: Reddit Profile of Fabio: https://www.reddit.com/user/enigmagico

Also, let me ask you this question: How do you exactly know that he cheated and what ideas and theories do you have on how he cheated in competitions?

Do you recognize the idea of Fabio intentionally practicing for long periods of time, sometimes for more than 10 hours a day?

I’d also like to thank everyone on both sides for keeping this thread relatively civil. I hope that we can all continue friendly relationships on the forum outside of this thread regardless of opinions
 
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porkynator

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So I’m your personal opinion, do you think Fabio has lied about blind progress on reddit for the past two years? If you think so, why was he so eager to help other blinders on reddit as well? EDIT: Reddit Profile of Fabio: https://www.reddit.com/user/enigmagico
I don't follow reddit, and I'm sorry but I don't feel like going through 2 years of posts. I think it is possible that he kept telling lies. The reason could be as simple as this: claiming faster times gets you more appreciation and compliments from other people, and that makes you feel good about yourself.
As for "why would he help other people" I don't see a contradiction. People are not either completely good or completely evil like in movies. Fabio may be lying about his times and possibly cheating in competition, but still be willing to help other people and be kind to them.

Also, let me ask you this question: How do you exactly know that he cheated and what ideas and theories do you have on how he cheated in competitions?
The only ideas I have about him cheating (for 5BLD) are that either he concurred about it with the judge, or that he took advantage of the judge not paying attention. I have not thought about this extensively, my considerations are mostly based on his times.

Do you recognize the idea of Fabio intentionally practicing for long periods of time, sometimes for more than 10 hours a day?
Yes, but I don't see what this would imply. Different people improve at different speed. It took me 4/5 years to get sub-30 with 3BLD, while some people have smashed this barrier in a matter of months, and some other have been practicing for 10 years or more and still average slower times.
 

weatherman223

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I got fair enough answers for 1 and 3 so I’m going to follow up on your answer to question 2:

The only ideas I have about him cheating (for 5BLD) are that either he concurred about it with the judge, or that he took advantage of the judge not paying attention. I have not thought about this extensively, my considerations are mostly based on his times.
So your ideas revolve around the judge being involved?

If so, then why wasn’t the judge banned from WCA competitions as well, for the same speculation that Fabio was banned on?
 

porkynator

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So your ideas revolve around the judge being involved?
Either involved or distracted/inexperienced enough to not realize the competitor was cheating.

If so, then why wasn’t the judge banned from WCA competitions as well, for the same speculation that Fabio was banned on?
I am not part of the WDC, I was only asked an opinion about the discrepancy between Fabio's BLD results. I don't know if the WDC is investigating on the judge as well (or is planning to do so). I can imagine them not wanting to take any action against the judge because they believe he was distracted or inexperienced and did not let the competitor cheat on purpose. But this is speculation on my side.
 

DesertWolf

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I got fair enough answers for 1 and 3 so I’m going to follow up on your answer to question 2:



So your ideas revolve around the judge being involved?

If so, then why wasn’t the judge banned from WCA competitions as well, for the same speculation that Fabio was banned on?
There is no specific regulation regarding what would happen to a judge. From what I read from the regulations, the competitor may be disqualified but not the judge.
Note: I’m not claiming this is the reason. I was not involved in the process, but from what I know of the regulations no action is taken on the judge.
I may be wrong on this one as I’m basing this off a quick read of the regulations. Although if this was the case id be for a change in such regulation as a judge is as much responsible as a competitor if the competitor cheats.
 
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Since Sebastiano has plenty of assumptions, theories and speculations, yet no evidence to back any of those up (which leads me to question why wouldn't the responsible part from the WDC, contact, from day one, better qualified and more responsible blind solvers to offer factual, unbiased insight on the matter - but that's not my actual point right now), as I'd kindly like to assess his concerns about me somehow taking advantage of the judge by pointing out to a picture taken by Diego M. (which apparently was one of the "specialists" consulted by the WDC, make of that what you will) without my consent or knowledge, during the 4x4 BLD round.

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm just camera shy And if someone wants to take pictures of me, I'd rather be asked about it before. This was not the case.

This picture has been sent by himself on a WhatsApp group, apparently in a cheap attempt to make fun of me for reasons unclear. It was then forwarded to me since I am not part of said group.

That's a harmonica holder (supplied by me) with the blocking paper in front of it (supplied by the organization). Both of which have been assessed and approved by not one, but three separate delegates.
 

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porkynator

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Since Sebastiano has plenty of assumptions, theories and speculations, yet no evidence to back any of those up (which leads me to question why wouldn't the responsible part from the WDC, contact, from day one, better qualified and more responsible blind solvers to offer factual, unbiased insight on the matter - but that's not my actual point right now) (...)
I have only made speculations now that I was explicitly asked for an opinion. The only opinion that I was asked from the WDC was on the plausibility of your times, and I have done so to the best of my experience. I don't see why you would consider me biased or not responsible enough. I don't have anything personal against you, nor any reason to want your results disqualified, if they are legitimate.
 
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I have only made speculations now that I was explicitly asked for an opinion. The only opinion that I was asked from the WDC was on the plausibility of your times, and I have done so to the best of my experience. I don't see why you would consider me biased or not responsible enough. I don't have anything personal against you, nor any reason to want your results disqualified, if they are legitimate.
For someone who is making speculations and doesn’t have bias you seem to be pointing out a lot of possibilities of him cheating and not a whole lot of things which indicate him not cheating :p
 

DesertWolf

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For someone who is making speculations and doesn’t have bias you seem to be pointing out a lot of possibilities of him cheating and not a whole lot of things which indicate him not cheating :p
Well if he finds more things that indicate he’s cheating rather then not it seems pretty hard to point out an even number of things... (wether or not his findings are valid is another thing)
 

One Wheel

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Sorry for asking what appears to be general knowledge, but what exactly is the claim? That he peeked during the solve? Performed moves during memorization? Had outside help to remind him of the memo or algs? And what are the times in question, since I presume they’re not currently on the WCA site?
 
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