The cubing argument thread

[Deleted member 55877]

Let me just say that there is a difference between a new method being bad but with potential, and bad without potential. 5CF is the latter.

 

[MJS Cubing]

ok lets argue about 5CF. It has potential. ARGUE!

Just because someone with a big ego made the method, doesn't make it good. If you could get a decent average on this without any complete redesigns you could maybe get someone to agree. Also, don't brag about getting banned and making an alt, and it is against the rules to multi post.

 

[Zain_A24]

What are your guys thoughts on GAN cubes?
Other than the larger than average price, what do you guys think is lacking.
Also, MSCube is looking to be a big threat for GAN.

 

[Zain_A24]

I don't just hate Gan for it's price. It's cubes often are repeated from the last just changing little things and marketing it as revolutionary. Take for example the 11 M pro. They added these shiny "core magnets" and called it revolutionary. They might be cool, but they work the same as normal magnets, and it is near impossible to feel the magnet strength change when you change the magnets.


Nothing is wrong with more options, however, a standard and enhanced is a bit unnecessary. In the MS3, the enhanced supposedly has a "Dual magnet system" and although I don't know what it is, what I do know is that it probably is the exact same as normal magnets. From what I can tell, that is the only difference. That being said, I really liked the idea of the 11 M pro coming in all different surfaces. This is probably a good thing to call revolutionary, because no more are we stuck with whatever surface the cube comes with, although, none of this matters to me because I prefer stickers.

So...
Quick questions:
Do you have the 11m Pro or GAN XS?
Have you tried corner magnets?
How do you know corner magnets feel same as regular magnets?

The 11M Pro is not just an XS with corner magnets FYI.

 

[MJS Cubing]

What are your guys thoughts on GAN cubes?
Other than the larger than average price, what do you guys think is lacking.
Also, MSCube is looking to be a big threat for GAN.

It's pretty much the same as Gan, even the email I got from speedcubeshop said it was a Gan but not. It does seem to have a similar feature set with a considerably lower price, although still pretty high for a 3x3.

So...
Quick questions:
Do you have the 11m Pro or GAN XS?
Have you tried corner magnets?
How do you know corner magnets feel same as regular magnets?

The 11M Pro is not just an XS with corner magnets FYI.

So my friend got the 11 M pro, but I have not tried the XS. I have tried the X though. I will admit performance was pretty good, although, not better than anything else I've tried. Since my friend has the 11 M pro, I have tried it, and I can't really tell a difference when turning. If you turn REALLY slow you might be able to tell a difference, and I'm pretty sure a number of people have remarked about this in their reviews. The corner magnets feel no different to normal magnets to me, besides being a bit stronger than your average magnets. I main the valk elite, and I feel the same strong magnet feeling, and as I get better at controlling cubes I have been prefer lighter and lighter magnets, and I like the fact that they allow you to put in green centers to get rid of the magnets completely in the centers, leaving just the ones in the edges. Another thing about the 11 M that I don't like is the fact that it does not come in stickered, but I don't feel like arguing stickers vs stickerless right now.

 

[LukasCubes]

I dont have gan cubes and i dont want any. Convince me otherwise.

 

[MJS Cubing]

I dont have gan cubes and i dont want any. Convince me otherwise.

there is no convincing to be had. Gan sucks.

 

[Zain_A24]

I dont have gan cubes and i dont want any. Convince me otherwise.

We don't need to force you to buy GAN cubes.
If you don't like the look of them, then they're probably not for you.

 

[Zain_A24]

there is no convincing to be had. Gan sucks.

You haven't answered my questions.

 

[MJS Cubing]

You haven't answered my questions.

Actually I have

So my friend got the 11 M pro, but I have not tried the XS. I have tried the X though. I will admit performance was pretty good, although, not better than anything else I've tried. Since my friend has the 11 M pro, I have tried it, and I can't really tell a difference when turning. If you turn REALLY slow you might be able to tell a difference, and I'm pretty sure a number of people have remarked about this in their reviews. The corner magnets feel no different to normal magnets to me, besides being a bit stronger than your average magnets. I main the valk elite, and I feel the same strong magnet feeling, and as I get better at controlling cubes I have been prefer lighter and lighter magnets, and I like the fact that they allow you to put in green centers to get rid of the magnets completely in the centers, leaving just the ones in the edges. Another thing about the 11 M that I don't like is the fact that it does not come in stickered, but I don't feel like arguing stickers vs stickerless right now.

 

[Zain_A24]

Actually I have

How did I not see that.

 

[Zain_A24]

It's pretty much the same as Gan, even the email I got from speedcubeshop said it was a Gan but not. It does seem to have a similar feature set with a considerably lower price, although still pretty high for a 3x3.

So my friend got the 11 M pro, but I have not tried the XS. I have tried the X though. I will admit performance was pretty good, although, not better than anything else I've tried. Since my friend has the 11 M pro, I have tried it, and I can't really tell a difference when turning. If you turn REALLY slow you might be able to tell a difference, and I'm pretty sure a number of people have remarked about this in their reviews. The corner magnets feel no different to normal magnets to me, besides being a bit stronger than your average magnets. I main the valk elite, and I feel the same strong magnet feeling, and as I get better at controlling cubes I have been prefer lighter and lighter magnets, and I like the fact that they allow you to put in green centers to get rid of the magnets completely in the centers, leaving just the ones in the edges. Another thing about the 11 M that I don't like is the fact that it does not come in stickered, but I don't feel like arguing stickers vs stickerless right now.

My counter arguments:
1 - You say you haven't seen or tried the XS yet you say the 11M Pro is "the same with added corner magnets". Where is the logic in this?
2 - You admit to GAN cubes being good. That's a point for us GAN fanboys/girls
3 - When you say "not better than anything else I tried" what are you comparing to?
4 - If you are using reviews as a way to produce your arguments you are going about it all wrong.
5 - The corner magnets are easily noticeable at high and low speeds. Do bear in mind that you have no idea what strength the corner magnets were set to on the cube you tried and you probably didn't try the cube for long enough / do enough solving on it compared to another cube to know how the corner magnets make an impact
6 - GAN 11 does come in stickered.

I'll update this as I find more flaws in your arguments.

 

[MJS Cubing]

My counter arguments:
1 - You say you haven't seen or tried the XS yet you say the 11M Pro is "the same with added corner magnets". Where is the logic in this?
2 - You admit to GAN cubes being good. That's a point for us GAN fanboys/girls
3 - When you say "not better than anything else I tried" what are you comparing to?
4 - If you are using reviews as a way to produce your arguments you are going about it all wrong.
5 - The corner magnets are easily noticeable at high and low speeds. Do bear in mind that you have no idea what strength the corner magnets were set to on the cube you tried and you probably didn't try the cube for long enough / do enough solving on it compared to another cube to know how the corner magnets make an impact
6 - GAN 11 does come in stickered.

I'll update this as I find more flaws in your arguments.

1 - Because pretty much every Gan cube before this has been the same, and it has the same core.
2 - Gan cubes are good, but not better than a cube at a lower price, the Tengyun, Guhong v4, Valk, WRM, GTS line, RS3M 2020, etc.
3 - Valk elite, GTS2M, Valk M, Pro Shop Little Magic M, Yulong V2 M, and I've heard that other cubes are just as good too, like the cubes above.
4 - I'm not just using reviews
5 - I couldn't feel a difference, and I don't own the cube so I am not doing many solves on it, and I'm not alone, Jperm points out that he can't feel a difference in his review
6 - The 11 M does not come in stickered, only in black internals, at least on TC or SCS

 

[Zain_A24]

1 - Because pretty much every Gan cube before this has been the same, and it has the same core.
2 - Gan cubes are good, but not better than a cube at a lower price, the Tengyun, Guhong v4, Valk, WRM, GTS line, RS3M 2020, etc.
3 - Valk elite, GTS2M, Valk M, Pro Shop Little Magic M, Yulong V2 M, and I've heard that other cubes are just as good too, like the cubes above.

Would you like me to counter your counters:
1 - "it has the same core"

Every cube since 2015 has the same octopus core (used 2015 as a random example). Does that mean that every cube with an octopus core is the same.
Invalid

- "every gan cube is the same"

How do you know this without any reasonable knowledge of GAN cubes. Can immediately shut this one down unless you have reasonable arguments.

2 - "Good but not better than those at a lower price"
This is subjective. Entirely personal preference. If you don't like the feel of GAN than that's up to you. Still doesn't justify saying "GAN sucks". There's a difference between "GAN sucks" and "Gan cubes are good, but blah blah".

3 - Once again subjective. Some great cubes in there so not going to complain that you are comparing with bad cubes. Once again, when you say "I've heard" in an argument, it never works.

No counters for points 4 to 6 so I'll assume I got those.

 

[Nmile7300]

Ok, my opinion is that Gan definitely has some problems and flaws. BUT that doesn’t mean they “suck” or are a bad company.

 

[MJS Cubing]

Would you like me to counter your counters:
1 - "it has the same core"

Every cube since 2015 has the same octopus core (used 2015 as a random example). Does that mean that every cube with an octopus core is the same.
Invalid

- "every gan cube is the same"

How do you know this without any reasonable knowledge of GAN cubes. Can immediately shut this one down unless you have reasonable arguments.

2 - "Good but not better than those at a lower price"
This is subjective. Entirely personal preference. If you don't like the feel of GAN than that's up to you. Still doesn't justify saying "GAN sucks". There's a difference between "GAN sucks" and "Gan cubes are good, but blah blah".

3 - Once again subjective. Some great cubes in there so not going to complain that you are comparing with bad cubes. Once again, when you say "I've heard" in an argument, it never works.

No counters for points 4 to 6 so I'll assume I got those.

1 - The same core and tensioning system as the XS, just has extra magnets.

2 - I'm looking at this from performance, not feel, it doesn't have better corner cutting, isn't faster, and isn't smoother

3 - I won't say I've heard then. I give quotes.

also, I did counter those.

 

[Zain_A24]

1 - The same core and tensioning system as the XS, just has extra magnets.

2 - I'm looking at this from performance, not feel, it doesn't have better corner cutting, isn't faster, and isn't smoother

3 - I won't say I've heard then. I give quotes.

also, I did counter those.

1 - That doesn't make it the same. Are you saying in order to make an upgraded product, you have to change everything about the product.
In cars for example, in order to make an upgraded version of a car you need to start from scratch and change every aspect, even those that are good without change. Doesn't make sense.

Differences:
Piece design
Magnet positioning
Magnet Adjustment
Lighter Weight
New Material

That's enough of a difference for it to be called a different cube.

2 - You realise performance is heavily based on setup and break-in. You tried a GAN cube that belonged to someone else. This was probably set up to suit their feel and not yours, or maybe not even set up at all. You can't fairly compare a cube you briefly tried to one that you have probably done thousands of solves on at this point. Feel is practically performance at this point.

3 - Please do. It adds credibility to your "arguments".

 

[BenChristman1]

I’m just going to give my opinion on Gan:

I think that their cubes are really good for certain people. I have an Air and an X, and they are both good, but I don’t main either. I don’t really like the look of the stickerless black internals, but I really love the look of the primary internals on the 11. I think that the naming scheme is stupid, but obviously they are really successful as a company, and I don’t see anything wrong with making their cubes expensive, because people are obviously buying them, but they just don’t reach quite as large of an audience because of the high price. Overall, Gan is a successful company and makes good cubes because they made a name for themselves very quickly. Nobody can say that Gan makes bad cubes, because they aren’t bad, they just don’t fit you.

 

[MJS Cubing]

I’m just going to give my opinion on Gan:

I think that their cubes are really good for certain people. I have an Air and an X, and they are both good, but I don’t main either. I don’t really like the look of the stickerless black internals, but I really love the look of the primary internals on the 11. I think that the naming scheme is stupid, but obviously they are really successful as a company, and I don’t see anything wrong with making their cubes expensive, because people are obviously buying them, but they just don’t reach quite as large of an audience because of the high price. Overall, Gan is a successful company and makes good cubes because they made a name for themselves very quickly. Nobody can say that Gan makes bad cubes, because they aren’t bad, they just don’t fit you.

I guess I will have to surrender, as I am starting to see why my point makes no sense. Because you said the sticker less and primary looks good, my valk elite and black caps looks the best.

 

[LukasCubes]

8x8 should be a WCA event Mo3