Tell'em About Jesus!

One of the huge problems with debating religion is that religious beliefs are based in faith, so the core beliefs are axioms. Just like the atheist has core axiomatic beliefs.
Very good point. But axioms in general are not chosen arbitrarily. They are chosen after considerable deliberations.

In religious debates, people debate as to why they chose their "axiom" of choice. But unfortunately, unlike in mathematics, the debaters don't reach a consensus. But at least it is worth putting forth your ideas.
 
In religious debates, people debate as to why they chose their "axiom" of choice.

Erm, just pointing out, I see some posts attacking the other party. Okay, not attacking, attack is too strong of a word. Erm....I can't find a word. I hope you get what I'm trying to say. Debate as to why they chose their axioms isn't the only debate that happens.
 
158 posts so far and almost all of a very high quality!

(I will focus on Christianity as most people have done so far, but most of my points are valid for all major religions)

I am not a religious person but I have studied several religions. I have learned to distinguish between the core religion and how followers interpret that core. Most of the time I have no problem at all with the followers and I can often see that it has improved there life by giving them direction.

I have some problems with religions by themselves because they often don't seem to make much sense in these day and age. Religions are also often preaching tolerance but are themselves not tolerant towards other religions. Most followers have adopted religion to better fit into this day and age where religions are for more mixed when compared to previous times.

Some problems I have with religions that include a god-figure is that often that god-figure is all-powerful, but very humanlike at the same time. That also means that many human characteristics are imposed upon the god-figure and although often the god-figure acts like a human, it also acts in completely counterintuitive ways. God-like behavior isn't something I can understand.

The biggest problem ofcourse is when scriptures are turned into blind belief. When "It says so in the bible" is used to replace individual thought a lot of bad things can occur and have certainly occured in the past.

Just for reference I would like to add this link. Please don't start discussing each and every occurence on that list. I certainly don't have enough historical and biblical knowledge to do so. Also, don't misunderstand my point and conclude from that link that I am a devilworshipper

The point that was made before that God isn't here to help mankind, but that mankind is here to worship God is very interesting for me. Especially since that worshipping is apparently the way to a good afterlife. I personaly don't believe in an afterlife but I never thought that I would be considered doomed because I didn't worship. I try to lead a life where I enjoy as much as possible while not bothering others and where I share my joy with others. These simple guidelines could be called my personal religion and really work for me.

In general I must say that religion on a personal level has never been a problem anywhere. Nobody has ever treated me badly because I wasn't of their beliefs or vice-versa. I have enjoyed many conversations and learned a lot about human nature and other religions this way.

Religion on a group-basis is something I have seen gone wrong. Very often not even baded on religious differences but based on other conflicts between the groups. Religion just formed the groups but wasn't the reason for the conflict.

Tolerance and interest is really all that is needed for different religions to get along and I have never seen that gone wrong personally
 
Just as a side note (I shouldn't be posting here, I should be studying instead but...), some of you might remember my posts in the earlier "Religion" thread. Well, I'm sorry for all of those as I'm an atheist now. I actually thank all of you for your arguments since those were what opened my mind.

 
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I'm an athiest, I know hate is a harsh word, but I F***ING HATE religion!

After reading this, unless your retarded, you will be an athiest!
read if you dare you BIBLE BASHER!!!

the Bible says that light and darkness are created after the water but before the sun. Everyone knows that the sun came first.

The Bible talks about a world-wide flood that covered earth in 5.5 miles of water and killed everything, yet we know it never happened. That is clear from the archeolgical record.

The reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary. The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men. A book that advocates senseless murder, slavery and the oppression of women has no place in our society today.

When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no evidence that God is "answering prayers."

The classic religious response is, "God must remain hidden. If he proved his existence, that would take away faith." This is clever -- here we have an object named God that proves its existence by completely hiding its existence. Of course, in the real world, any object that provides no evidence for its existence is classified as imaginary.

During your attempt at an intellectual argument against religion you found a way to make your post completely void of any intelligible reason. Enjoy getting banned.

Edit: Oh look he's banned now, I'm a prophet. (Terrible, terrible joke intended)
 
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Well then, I give up, because If he doesn't believe in God, then nothing i say will get through his head.

...you're just using a circular argument. You can't prove something by first assuming it's true.

exaclty, so whats the point. thats why i give up

It was abundantly clear from the outset that this thread was a discussion between believers and nonbelievers. Why did you even enter the thread to begin with, if there is "no point" in having a conversation with someone that doesn't believe in God?
 
I'm an athiest, I know hate is a harsh word, but I F***ING HATE religion!

After reading this, unless your retarded, you will be an athiest!...

During your attempt at an intellectual argument against religion you found a way to make your post completely void of any intelligible reason. Enjoy getting banned.

Edit: Oh look he's banned now, I'm a prophet. (Terrible, terrible joke intended)

Exactly. How do you(Zane_C) even come to the conclusion that all theists are christians?
 
is there a downside to believing in God? I became a christian a little more than a year ago and I know that I have been living a much better life since then.
 
is there a downside to believing in God? I became a christian a little more than a year ago and I know that I have been living a much better life since then.

What do you mean by better? Happier? Relieved?
 
[thread hijack]

I use Rubik's lube (in the white tube) when cube is new, after this silicone spray

Interesting - this is exactly what I've taken to doing lately. (Except I use CubeLube, which is supposedly the exact same stuff as the Rubik's lube, and then I use CRC as my silicone spray after that.) I did this with all of my V cubes, and now I did it to my new QJ 4x4x4, and they all seem to be doing great.

I figure the CubeLube applies a protective coating, which prevents the acetone in the CRC from melting the cubes as much. I don't know that that concept actually works, but it seems like a nice concept, anyway. :)

[/thread hijack]
 
First off, I am truly amazed how most everyone has kept there cool. Now, to jump in head first.

NOTE: I have a very interesting view on religion.
1) I think organized religion was made for fear. I think that the people who use their own beliefs are the most intelligent theists.
2) I honestly have no idea who or what God is. I'm not worried about who/what he/she/it is...
3) To answer all these people who question where the bad things(hunger, death, war, disease...), I believe God simply created the universe and hit the metaphorical "START" button. The horror in the world is created by the Free Will God gave us.
4) If God were to prove him/her/itself, then there would be no use for belief.
5) George Carlin was, in fact, religious. He was anti-organized religion, much as I am.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me. I will not try and convert you or change your mind, only give you the info on what I believe So, I will be more than happy to answer any questions you might have...
 
is there a downside to believing in God? I became a christian a little more than a year ago and I know that I have been living a much better life since then.

There is no downside in believing in God. There have been people who were hardened criminals but turned their lives around from learning about God.
 
5) George Carlin was, in fact, religious. He was anti-organized religion, much as I am.

Umm, no he wasn't.

Your right, sort of. It was mostly my fault as I used the term "religion". Carlin believed there was a higher power, but he didn't know nor care what it was. He stated this in his very last interview, i believe. If you listen to his special "Complaints and Grievances" his bit about the ten commandments is what he believed. I apologize for the confusion.
PS: You can't always use wikipedia for accurate information.
 
There is no downside in believing in God.

Depends. If you just believe that God exists there is no downside to that (but also there is no downside to believing that the Easter Bunny exists unless you think that believing something false is a downside in itself, so saying "there is no downside" is not much of an argument for theism).

But on the other hand, if you believe that God exists AND expects you to act in a certain way to appease him, there is a downside: you have to follow all of the rules that have been set up. For instance, serious adherents of Judaism have to make sure to only eat Kosher meat, and Muslims have to practice Ramadan. I think that restricting the activities you can do and keeping up with praying, church visits, etc. can all count as downsides.
 
qqwref:
I agree with most of what you write in this forum. You are a rational person and it's nice to read you. +1 for you.

PS: Thanks for qqtimer.
 
I'm an athiest, I know hate is a harsh word, but I F***ING HATE religion!

After reading this, unless your retarded, you will be an athiest!
read if you dare you BIBLE BASHER!!!

the Bible says that light and darkness are created after the water but before the sun. Everyone knows that the sun came first.

The Bible talks about a world-wide flood that covered earth in 5.5 miles of water and killed everything, yet we know it never happened. That is clear from the archeolgical record.

The reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary. The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men. A book that advocates senseless murder, slavery and the oppression of women has no place in our society today.

When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no evidence that God is "answering prayers."

The classic religious response is, "God must remain hidden. If he proved his existence, that would take away faith." This is clever -- here we have an object named God that proves its existence by completely hiding its existence. Of course, in the real world, any object that provides no evidence for its existence is classified as imaginary.

During your attempt at an intellectual argument against religion you found a way to make your post completely void of any intelligible reason. Enjoy getting banned.

Edit: Oh look he's banned now, I'm a prophet. (Terrible, terrible joke intended)

Ah, this simple joke thread got somebody banned!

Good times.
 
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