Some advice people give that I don't agree with

[Smiles]

First off, I would like to say that I think many cubers are smart, and the people who say these things have reasonable arguments to defend their opinion.
I just disagree with some things.




1. You don't need to be at a certain level to get a better cube like a Guhong or Zhanchi, it's better to get used to it and not have to deal with a bad cube.

I disagree with this, because of personal experience. There's nothing wrong with the logic here, it makes sense.

I think that using a cube that is not a good speedcube (but not a terrible one) while learning can help one become a better cuber.

For a long time I didn't know that better cubes could be that good, like corner cutting 45 degrees. I used a well broken-in Rubik's storebought cube lubed with tons of Vaseline for very long, and it didn't hinder my improvement rate. The only problem with that cube was the corner cutting ability.

I didn't really start trying to improve my time until around mid-March 2012, when I was averaging 45 seconds. After about a week, I was averaging around 33 seconds. I was developing my FOP of CFOP. By the end of April, I was averaging 23 seconds. I was still using that old Rubik's cube.

After my new Guhong was delivered, my time didn't change. I figured I needed to get used to it. What surprised me was that after about a week, I noticed my times were improving at the exact same rate as with the Rubik's cube. Obviously the corner cutting was a lot better on the Guhong, but I never really noticed it helping. I used to corner cut maybe once every 2 solves, and my execution didn't feel like it was being held back by the cube.

Same with the Zhanchi, my improvement rate was constant. What really made me think it was great that I got used to a bad cube was that my friend was making loud clicking noises during his solves, which were corner cutting. I never made those sounds, I never used torpedoes (even with loose tensions), and all my execution was smoother than his.

For me, the corner cutting of my Zhanchi is like a bonus. If I'm not doing well, it gets me out of trouble. The speed obviously helped, but it's not like I was going to stay with the Rubik's cube forever. My friends who have better cubes kind of rely on the corner cutting ability, which increases the chances of popping and can cause inconsistent solves.

Before Zhanchis existed, people subbed 10 on Guhongs. I don't see why having a Zhanchi is so important to sub-30 solvers.



2. To practice F2L (applies only to CFOP), you can get an old cube and take off the stickers of the last layer and then just solve what's there.

I don't think a lot of people actually do this, but I don't like the idea.

Firstly, I'm colour neutral and that doesn't work for me.

However, a few months ago I was a regular white-side-first solver, and this idea was odd to me.
When you're doing F2L, you can obviously do it faster without the last layer in sight. For example, if I'm doing white and I get the orange-blue pair in and I see a piece with blue on it, I immediately know that it has red as well. However, with the last layer existing, there are 2 extra blue corners and 1 extra blue edge, as well as extra red stickers, etc.

Additionally, being able to recognize the OLL quickly after F2L is good to get used to, and using different inserts such as sledgehammer to orient LL edges is also something to watch out for, unless all your last layer stickers are peeled off.

A big part of look-ahead during F2L is being able to not just see a piece, but tracking it beforehand so that you know its exact orientation and whether or not you're 100% confident you're looking at the right piece. Part of being fluent in F2L is training yourself to ignore the last layer pieces instead of hide them completely. If anyone finds the last layer colours distracting, peeling off the stickers won't help.

 

[bigbee99]

I agree with everything that you said here, especially the second one.

 

[applemobile]

The first argument will go on for ever. And I completely disagree with you. The argument that you need to learn to turn accurately first, and then progress, so that you don't become sloppy, sounds nice, but the reality is that no matter how long you use a crap cube, once you start using a 'speed cube' you will start cutting corners. I don't see what everyone's problem is with n00bs learning to cut corners, it is exactly that, cutting the corner, meaning being more efficient/faster. I see no problem with people learning to cut corners , as as soon as it pops, you learn how far you can take it. I don't know if anyone knows, because they never seem to mention it, but you can actually tighten a guhong/zanchi. I suggest that people start with a decent cube, but tighten it. Gradually getting looser as they progress. One should start to learn as they go on, if you wanted to learn to snowboard, you wouldn't go buy ski's to practice on.

The only legit argument about learning accurate turning, is it will hinder you on big cubes if you don't do it. But seens as you have to change your grip and turning style for a big cube, the I thinkit is something you have to re-learn anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

​

And FYI the second point is an exelent way to teach/learn F2l. It's a very good way to explain F2l to a nube.

 

[Ninja Storm]

I like you. Your points were good, and you had the explanations to back your reasoning. I agree with your first point, and I'm kinda impartial on the second. I really liked how you called corner-cutting a bonus, and that it's backup for when you're not doing well.

Good post, 10/10

 

[Ranzha]

Interesting ideas brought up.

As it goes with your first point, I agree with you. My experience, albeit a much longer road, takes a similar route. However, I don't think comparing my experience to the experience of other newer cubers today is well worth the trouble since three years ago, GuHongs didn't quite exist.
What I personally fail to understand is the necessity for these top-notch cubes of today. By being exposed to these cubes as they were released, I daresay I can appreciate them a lot more than the run-of-the-mill new cuber who makes the leap from Rubik's storebought to Lubix Elite or whathaveyou.
Not only did I get sub-30 as a beginner with a Vaselined storebought before buying a different cube, but I've seen videos of people getting sub-15 averages with storeboughts, which leaves the mindsets "You need the fastest cube to be fast" or "You need the record-breaking cube to be fast" in the dust.
On top of it all, the old adage "Focus is better spent on the journey rather than the destination", which may or may not seem applicable to the individual, still rings true to my experience. I was able to develop my own cubing style which led to the transition from a crackly A-II to a buttery F-II, which I then used for a year before getting a ZhanChi prototype. I feel like had I not undergone this journey, I wouldn't have benefited nearly as much as I have.
(I really can't find a good way to explain what I'm thinking.)

As far as it goes with your second point, I actually disagree from a less advanced standpoint, but agree from a more advanced standpoint. If a person has yet to be fully acquainted with a style of doing F2L (or F2B), then his/her job is made astronomically easier by ridding him/herself of the irrelevant pieces the step is solving. The practice of finding pieces is made less abstract and unpredictable.
However, for colour neutral solvers who wish their colour neutrality remain intact, this practice should be adamantly discouraged for obvious reasons.
An additional however lies with more advanced solvers--in particular, those who are acquainted with solving F2L who are ready to attempt at least a little bit of last layer control. Not having the U layer to worry about could mean that in actual full-cube practice, a cuber is more likely to get a dot case because of a lack of partial edge control. This is why I personally always stress exploring the cube in lieu of mindless solving for hours at a time. Take charge of time and be diligent with it! Experimentation will not only improve a cuber's understanding of the puzzle they're solving, but over time, it'll help a cuber's times.

 

[sneaklyfox]

Agree with both points. But yeah, if you have a terrible cube, that's not helpful. Before I got any real speedcubes, I had a Rubik's storebought. It's actually rather decent for a storebought. I had known how to solve a Rubik's cube for decades and I only used the Rubik's brand cubes. They weren't really good enough for me to do fingertricks on though and they broke after years of use. With the more recent storebought, I was able to turn sides with finger flicks and that was what got me interested in speedcubing because I knew you had to do finger tricks to actually get fast.

Anyway, it's ok but actually locks up a lot, even when it looks lined up. It got annoying to use it when I got faster because it held me up tons. And after a point it's fun to use an actually fast cube. So I would recommend getting a slightly better cube that has a bit of corner cutting ability but not much. Getting a cube that isn't too fast is also beneficial because it helps you naturally move slower so you can work on look ahead. Mine just actually locked up when it shouldn't have and that distracted me from looking ahead to trying to get the stupid thing to turn.

It's like giving a beginner vioin student a Stradivarius. It'll sound nicer than a cheap violin of course, but it won't help you improve your tone as much because it already sounds decent. But a good violinist can make a cheap violin sound like a strad (well, somewhat). And Feliks could probably sub-10 with my storebought.

In short, your instrument should be always a step or two better than you. It should not hold you back nor make you seem much better than you really are. Just my opinion.

 

[cyoubx]

One should start to learn as they go on, if you wanted to learn to snowboard, you wouldn't go buy ski's to practice on..

He's not saying to practice 3x3 on a rex cube.

A better comparison would be buying the best snowboard available from the get-go. And in that respect, there's nothing inherently wrong with beginners using the best product, but there's nothing obviously wrong with beginners using a lesser product either. Under that mindset, I personally found it to be enjoyable when upgrading from a storebought to a DIY and so on. In my opinion, it's not really about the times you end up getting but rather the satisfaction from experiencing something better.


To add to the list:

"It's the cuber not the cube." - while this may have been correct a few years ago, things have definitely changed. I still think it's good to think about, and it's generally true, but it's not a say-all-end-all catchphrase anymore. I've seen a lot of beginners spewing this out and it bothers me a little. At some point, say sub-15, the cube definitely plays a role. This is probably obvious to people here, but it's a little troubling to see how many people abide by this so firmly. I'm probably the only one who thinks this way though, haha.

 

[drewsopchak]

Cuber not the cube is right. I don't think it effects someone's improvement to use a speed cube when they're slow, but I think it's nice for them psychologically.

 

[Ranzha]

To add to the list:

"It's the cuber not the cube." - while this may have been correct a few years ago, things have definitely changed. I still think it's good to think about, and it's generally true, but it's not a say-all-end-all catchphrase anymore. I've seen a lot of beginners spewing this out and it bothers me a little. At some point, say sub-15, the cube definitely plays a role. This is probably obvious to people here, but it's a little troubling to see how many people abide by this so firmly. I'm probably the only one who thinks this way though, haha.

A scary one, this. It seems that with all of the advancement of 3x3 hardware recently, more than occasionally the cube becomes the primary resultsgiver. But the cuber also plays a role in it too. That's why you have people like Ravi Fernando turning furiously and people like Shelley Chang always letting the moves flow. I think the standard should be set that a cuber should use a cube suited for their current point of learning. Again, I'll bring up experimentation, not only with "software" (technique), but with the hardware as well. As the variety of cubes a cuber is exposed to grows, the more easy it becomes to find a cube suited for the cuber.

 

[drewsopchak]

I also don't believe in strategic practicing of a certain step with the exception of time attacks.

 

[sneaklyfox]

The first argument will go on for ever. And I completely disagree with you. The argument that you need to learn to turn accurately first, and then progress, so that you don't become sloppy, sounds nice, but the reality is that no matter how long you use a crap cube, once you start using a 'speed cube' you will start cutting corners. I don't see what everyone's problem is with n00bs learning to cut corners, it is exactly that, cutting the corner, meaning being more efficient/faster. I see no problem with people learning to cut corners , as as soon as it pops, you learn how far you can take it. I don't know if anyone knows, because they never seem to mention it, but you can actually tighten a guhong/zanchi. I suggest that people start with a decent cube, but tighten it. Gradually getting looser as they progress. One should start to learn as they go on, if you wanted to learn to snowboard, you wouldn't go buy ski's to practice on.

The only legit argument about learning accurate turning, is it will hinder you on big cubes if you don't do it. But seens as you have to change your grip and turning style for a big cube, the I thinkit is something you have to re-learn anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

Point well taken! But I wonder... when people learn to cut corners, are they practicing cutting at the place where it's most efficient? What I mean is that if you had a cube with great corner-cutting ability and tried not to do any corner cutting, that would not be efficient obviously, but there's a point when the cube can still cut the corner because you're at some ridiculous 45+ degree angle but there's some resistance which actually slows you down again. So we should really be finding the optimal angle at which to cut. No?

 

[Zarxrax]

I think that using a cube that is not a good speedcube (but not a terrible one) while learning can help one become a better cuber.

...

Same with the Zhanchi, my improvement rate was constant. What really made me think it was great that I got used to a bad cube was that my friend was making loud clicking noises during his solves, which were corner cutting. I never made those sounds, I never used torpedoes (even with loose tensions), and all my execution was smoother than his.

...

My friends who have better cubes kind of rely on the corner cutting ability, which increases the chances of popping and can cause inconsistent solves.

The only thing that you are supporting in your argument is that having a crappy cube can help you turn more accurately without relying on corner cutting. Its a HUGE stretch to go from that to actually saying this makes you a better cuber. You talk about corner cutting as if its a bad thing. Pretty much all development in cubes over the past several years has been in trying to develop cubes that cut corners better. In fact, this is the whole point of getting something that's not a storebought. The fact is, corner cutting is a good thing that helps improve times.
You go on to say that changing your cube to a corner cutting one didn't immediately improve your times. Well from your description, it sounds like that's because you weren't even attempting to cut corners. You had trained on a cube that couldn't do it for so long, that you didn't know how to take advantage of this new ability.
And then you list the downside of corner cutting as increasing the chances of popping. I'm sorry, but with correct tensions and a modern cube, popping isn't really an issue anymore. Try using some of the cubes that people were using several years back, such as the original Type-A, and then get back to me about popping.

 

[sneaklyfox]

I also don't believe in strategic practicing of a certain step with the exception of time attacks.

You don't believe in strategic practicing or you don't believe in practicing certain steps (like cross, for example) as standalone for any period of time? Completely disagree with either or both.

This is turning into one big debate thread. Haha.

 

[Ranzha]

In addition to what Zarxrax said, popping's never an issue on my GuHong v2 which I got about a month ago. However, to say that all advancements were made in pursuit of better corner-cutting is so horribly false.
In any case, corner-cutting isn't something to be treated as a new ability nor as a bonus, but as an integral part of speedsolving the 3x3 (at least). Along with it comes proper tensioning, suitable stickers (chipped feel or perfectly square, etc.), and the cuber's own techniques. Additionally, there comes a point where corner-cutting developments go outside of practical boundaries, and we've gone far past there.

 

[Smiles]

The first argument will go on for ever. And I completely disagree with you. The argument that you need to learn to turn accurately first, and then progress, so that you don't become sloppy, sounds nice, but the reality is that no matter how long you use a crap cube, once you start using a 'speed cube' you will start cutting corners. I don't see what everyone's problem is with n00bs learning to cut corners, it is exactly that, cutting the corner, meaning being more efficient/faster. I see no problem with people learning to cut corners , as as soon as it pops, you learn how far you can take it. I don't know if anyone knows, because they never seem to mention it, but you can actually tighten a guhong/zanchi. I suggest that people start with a decent cube, but tighten it. Gradually getting looser as they progress. One should start to learn as they go on, if you wanted to learn to snowboard, you wouldn't go buy ski's to practice on.

The only legit argument about learning accurate turning, is it will hinder you on big cubes if you don't do it. But seens as you have to change your grip and turning style for a big cube, the I thinkit is something you have to re-learn anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

Like I mentioned in my beginning post, the arguments are reasonable, and so is yours.
My friend bought a new Rubik's Cube and i actually couldn't flick, and i had to use my entire hand to turn it. That's not what I'm talking about.
The Rubik's brand cube that I used until I was averaging 23 seconds was very well broken in, I think it had some silicone in it, and it turned very smoothly. I'm not saying beginners shouldn't corner cut, but in my opinion, learning with that "shortcut" can decrease efficiency and consistency. And "it's the cuber, not the cube" definitely applies to beginners, which in ways supports both of our arguments.

Also, I'm not sure if I made it clear but what I really meant was that I would never recommend a great speedcube to a beginner, unless they had some freakish talent. I'm just saying that immediately getting a great speedcube is probably not going to help if they plan to be a long term speedcuber.

Less precision causing popping can obviously be fixed with torpedoes or tighter tensions, but the former can cause a slightly less flexible cube and lock ups, and the latter just makes the cube harder to turn (unless the cube was too loose, obviously).

​

And FYI the second point is an exelent way to teach/learn F2l. It's a very good way to explain F2l to a nube.

Yeah I can agree with that, but I kinda meant practicing it once you already know it.

The only thing that you are supporting in your argument is that having a crappy cube can help you turn more accurately without relying on corner cutting. Its a HUGE stretch to go from that to actually saying this makes you a better cuber. You talk about corner cutting as if its a bad thing. Pretty much all development in cubes over the past several years has been in trying to develop cubes that cut corners better. In fact, this is the whole point of getting something that's not a storebought. The fact is, corner cutting is a good thing that helps improve times.
You go on to say that changing your cube to a corner cutting one didn't immediately improve your times. Well from your description, it sounds like that's because you weren't even attempting to cut corners. You had trained on a cube that couldn't do it for so long, that you didn't know how to take advantage of this new ability.
And then you list the downside of corner cutting as increasing the chances of popping. I'm sorry, but with correct tensions and a modern cube, popping isn't really an issue anymore. Try using some of the cubes that people were using several years back, such as the original Type-A, and then get back to me about popping.

Well the reason torpedoes were invented is cause cubes can still pop even with good tensions.
What I mean about me not corner cutting is that, no one can turn perfectly. If you take advantage of corner cutting regularly, you are pretty much relying on it. Obviously that can be an advantage, but if you turn a bit off of your normal turns you COULD easily lock up or pop if you don't have torpedoes or good tensions. In an extreme case you could even drop the cube.

Don't get me wrong, I do corner cut all the time, just small enough angles that I can barely feel it on a Zhanchi.

And because of the way the pieces move, even if you cut corners perfectly and intentionally, you will still turn the cube at approximately the same rate. Corner cutting should, most of the time, just save you from locking up on your mistakes or from imperfect turns. However, if you've used a bad cube for a long time, then you tend to fault less during turns and it will help your consistency once you have the ability to corner cut (assuming you're used to the good cube)

 

[applemobile]

Rather than spending £12 on a rubik's brand, only to have to change it, why not start with a guhong and tighten I up? What is the aversion to this?

 

[Ranzha]

Rather than spending £12 on a rubik's brand, only to have to change it, why not start with a guhong and tighten I up? What is the aversion to this?

It's unsafe to assume that a tightened GuHong is at the same quality of a storebought. They're two entirely different feels. Also, tightening a GuHong still can allow fast uncontrollable individual turns as it can still allow impaired turning.
Again, I reiterate: Get a cube suited for your current level of achievement. I'd personally have liked to start with a Ghost Hand.

 

[Smiles]

Rather than spending £12 on a rubik's brand, only to have to change it, why not start with a guhong and tighten I up? What is the aversion to this?

"Also, I'm not sure if I made it clear but what I really meant was that I would never recommend a great speedcube to a beginner, unless they had some freakish talent. I'm just saying that immediately getting a great speedcube is probably not going to help if they plan to be a long term speedcuber."

I did imply something but I guess I didn't make it clear. Oops.
By "immediately getting a great speedcube is probably not going to help...", I meant like switching from a Rubik's to a Dayan simply because the Dayan cube is better.

If someone with no cube wanted to learn and could wait for the delivery of a great cube, then fine. But more often than not, they'd simply go to the store and buy the first cube they see. And it's not having a great cube that will bring you down, it's more that getting a great cube early on isn't going to help.

Okay obviously your times will be faster, but it's about long term. Like when I switched to colour neutral, or learned F2L or PLL, my times were slower at first. But then later on, they got better, like how not upgrading your cube so early can help you turn more accurately.

But drastic changes don't have to be made, I'm all for going from a Rubik's cube to a DIY to like an Alpha V or F-II, then Dayan, or something like that.

 

[jeff081692]

I think that cubers should be able to buy whatever cube they want for whatever reason they want. However, I do know that some benefits to using a stiff cube is to improve your finger muscles, in the same way that adding weights will make you stronger in the long run than doing the same routine with a lighter weight that moves like air in your hands. I read on here that Breandan use to practice with a stiff cube for this reason but I may be wrong since it's been a while since I saw it. Also I have heard in many areas that to master something, master something harder. So doing a few PLL time attacks on a stiff cube would make PLL on your normal cube feel like a piece of cake but I have not explored this type of training yet alternating between stiff and loose cubes.

As for your second point, not all advice is universal to everyone. As you know being CN makes that exercise for F2L pointless but someone else might like the idea and it would encourage them to practice more because they are having fun and challenging themselves at the same time instead of doing the same boring routine.

And in reply to someone else above. I like to practice steps individually at times because when I look for weakness in my solves I can usually identify what step is holding me back the most and if I use my practice time to get better at that then things always work out better for me that way. I could also just do solves over and over but that is not fun for me when I know I need to work on cross+1 for example. I can do a lot more cross+1 solves and thus eliminate my weakness if i focus solely on that than if I did an avg of 200 each day. An average of 200 each day is in my opinion enough to have steady improvement but that is not how I like to train which is why people will disagree on advice and practice methods.

My advice on taking cubing advice is to look at it from the perspective of someone who would like that kind of training and compare to see if it is something you would like to do and if you like it then go for it and if not then ignore it and if you are stuck then go back and reconsider the advice you skipped over until you find what works best for you.

 

[insane569]

"Hey look I have a Zhanchi Like FAZ IMA get WR" A fast cube wont help much. Nor will Corner cutting since you dont think about it when you solve. It just happens, Its more about the actual solve than the cube. Yea turning fast might help and a little cornercutting doesnt hurt but if you cant solve reasonably well (like 80 face turns per solve) then your time wont be that good. If the cube is too fast for you then overturning is a problem, too slow and underturning is a problem. So dont just jump into the fastest cube and expect results fast. Find a cube that fits your style. Both speed and cornercutting.