Remove 3x3x3 with Feet as an Official Event?

[qqwref]

Besides that, I might have an argument for keeping it: Having feet solving as an official event encourages people to actually practice it. So the WCA would be "responsible" (that word might be a bit of a stretch) for better flexibility of their cubers. There are people in our modern shoe society who can't even grab a footbag with their feet...

I don't think this has anything to do with "flexibility", but it's true that being able to move your feet precisely is a different ability that many people don't have. The question is, though, is it at all useful? Do we gain anything (outside of feetsolving or playing hacky sack) from having this ability, and do we lose anything from not having it?

If someone needs to precisely manipulate something on the ground, even if they happen to already be barefoot, they are just not very likely to sit down and manipulate it with their feet. It's easier to bend/sit down and do the same action with their hands, and I'd wager this is true even for experienced footsolvers. (Compare a 35 second footsolve vs. 5 seconds of picking up the cube + a 15 second speedsolve.) In addition, many of the popular things which involve lower-body movement skills, such as dancing or martial arts, involve large-scale movement (whole leg) rather than small-scale movement (precise movements of feet and toes), and the two are very different. So unless you don't have functional hands, I can't think of any situations - outside of games or events specifically designed to test foot dexterity - where this ability would provide any benefit. It seems like much more of a novelty skill than an essential ability.

 

[makssl6911]

I know no one cares about my opinion, but anyway;
I don't care about feet. I couldn't care less. But, i myself am a fan of ADDING more events, like skewb and 2x2 bld(lel).
I feel like feet should be there, since it is here. There is no point of removing more events! You are only limiting what people can do by removing another event. Feet is also a "small" event, and even though it's hated by many(?), i can't see how it's bothering you. I mean, it's gross? It's like eating burgers with your hands is gross.. It may be, but sheesh, get over it.
Why we should keep it:
-Dosen't require alot of space.
-Scrambling is not a problem.
-It is a relativelly un-explored event, and many records will be set/beaten quickly.
-It made it into the WCA events, why take it out now?
I personally say, keep feet, add skewb, and send me a free cube.
Just my two cents, though.

 

[BaMiao]

I know no one cares about my opinion, but anyway;
I don't care about feet. I couldn't care less. But, i myself am a fan of ADDING more events, like skewb and 2x2 bld(lel).
I feel like feet should be there, since it is here. There is no point of removing more events! You are only limiting what people can do by removing another event. Feet is also a "small" event, and even though it's hated by many(?), i can't see how it's bothering you. I mean, it's gross? It's like eating burgers with your hands is gross.. It may be, but sheesh, get over it.
Why we should keep it:
-Dosen't require alot of space.
-Scrambling is not a problem.
-It is a relativelly un-explored event, and many records will be set/beaten quickly.
-It made it into the WCA events, why take it out now?
I personally say, keep feet, add skewb, and send me a free cube.
Just my two cents, though.

You can't just add events willy-nilly. Every added event requires additional time, space, and staffing for any competition that is doing it. Any additional event that you don't like makes it less likely that comps in your area will do events you want to compete in. At large comps like worlds, the additional resource strain will lead to harsher cutoffs or fewer rounds of other events.

 

[cubizh]

I wonder if there was ever a competitor that did feet due to handicap (no fingers/hands).

 

[ryanj92]

I say feet can stay as long as it continues to provide threads as beautiful as this one

 

[antoineccantin]

Here's [post=890506]the best reason to remove feet[/post]. I wanna be there!

Then compete in feet?

I don't think this has anything to do with "flexibility", but it's true that being able to move your feet precisely is a different ability that many people don't have. The question is, though, is it at all useful? Do we gain anything (outside of feetsolving or playing hacky sack) from having this ability, and do we lose anything from not having it?

Do we don't gain anything useful from any other speed solving?

I wonder if there was ever a competitor that did feet due to handicap (no fingers/hands).

iirc there was.

 

[Stefan]

Then compete in feet?

Mehhhh... I don't really want to...

 

[antoineccantin]

Mehhhh... I don't really want to...

Then you have no excuse for not being on the list. It's completely your fault, you've competed in a ton of competitions holding Feet. YOU SHOULD FEEL ASHAMED OF YOURSELF.

 

[qqwref]

I wonder if there was ever a competitor that did feet due to handicap (no fingers/hands).

Yes. I remember hearing about this guy from some of the older California cubers. His name was Will Arnold. Other links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sansbras/thepageiusedtohaveup http://leyanlo.xanga.com/269500368/item/

Do we don't gain anything useful from any other speed solving?

Well, there's actual dexterity and finger speed, which are useful for plenty of other things. But I was really responding to the argument that feet is a useful addition to cubing because it helps us learn a useful ability, so whether the whole of cubing is useful isn't so important.

 

[tim]

I don't think this has anything to do with "flexibility", but it's true that being able to move your feet precisely is a different ability that many people don't have. The question is, though, is it at all useful? Do we gain anything (outside of feetsolving or playing hacky sack) from having this ability, and do we lose anything from not having it?

If someone needs to precisely manipulate something on the ground, even if they happen to already be barefoot, they are just not very likely to sit down and manipulate it with their feet. It's easier to bend/sit down and do the same action with their hands, and I'd wager this is true even for experienced footsolvers. (Compare a 35 second footsolve vs. 5 seconds of picking up the cube + a 15 second speedsolve.) In addition, many of the popular things which involve lower-body movement skills, such as dancing or martial arts, involve large-scale movement (whole leg) rather than small-scale movement (precise movements of feet and toes), and the two are very different. So unless you don't have functional hands, I can't think of any situations - outside of games or events specifically designed to test foot dexterity - where this ability would provide any benefit. It seems like much more of a novelty skill than an essential ability.

True, "flexibility" isn't really the word I was looking for.

The argument I wanted to make wasn't about the ability (and its usefulness) itself*, but more about the overall "health" of the human body. Best compared to our crippled backs which are also a side effect of our modern society (because we sit in front of desks/computers all day long).

Also: I think that martial arts and dancing require about as much (if not more) feet moving skills as hacky sack. I'm only good at hacky sack, so I can't say for sure, though.

*Sorry for the confusion. I feel kinda bad for forcing you to counter my argument I actually didn't want to make. :/

 

[Dene]

If somebody could sub-1, I suppose.

Feet really isn't handicapped nearly as much as people think, it's like when you first start OH: It seems handicapped, but it really isn't. After a while, it starts becoming more and more of a speedsolve.

If you practice feetsolving, it becomes about TPS and look ahead, not being able to turn it. That's about the barrier for more 3x3 events, where if the challenge is being able to turn it or TPS + look ahead. I can't think of another way to solve a 3x3 where turning it is not the challenge.

If your comments are directed specifically at me, and not to everyone in general, then I should inform you that I am a perfectly competent feet solver. Many years ago I practised regularly and got down to around a minute average. i.e. I know what feet solving entails.

 

[Coolster01]

If your comments are directed specifically at me, and not to everyone in general, then I should inform you that I am a perfectly competent feet solver. Many years ago I practised regularly and got down to around a minute average. i.e. I know what feet solving entails.

It was directed to everyone in general. But I didn't know you were around a minute, wow!

 

[Tim Major]

Umm...what?This is the entire thread in two sentences: Feet solvers like feet. Everyone else hates it. This almost never happens for other events. I don't solve BLD or 7x7 or megaminx. I still fully enjoy those events, and see their value. I don't solve feet, and I genuinely dislike it. Sure, some people don't like certain events, everyone has their preferences. But there isn't any event that is disliked by the majority of the cubing community other than 3x3 with feet. If most people that love cubing dislike feetsolving, that is a perfectly valid reason to remove the event. It's ridiculous not to take the opinion of the majority into consideration when it comes to these issues. I think feet solvers need to see how non-cubers (and non-feet solvers) truly view the event. It marginalizes speed cubing, it's a novelty, it's a sideshow. It takes a "weird" hobby, and makes it even weirder. The attention that feet solving gets from non-cubers isn't due to genuine interest or admiration, it's because it's incredibly odd and bizarre. It's not taken seriously by anyone other than feet solvers, and negatively affects the way the entire hobby is viewed. Get rid of it.

I agree with everything stated in this post. As for "we need a proper reason". How is "the majority of nonfeetsolvers dislike the event" not a valid reason?

 

[aceofspades98]

Although the majority of feet solvers dislike it, that isn't a completely valid reason to remove it. May I ask what percentage of cubers that dislike it have really tried to do it before?
Just to be clear, I don't like feet either.

 

[Tim Major]

OK, you're right. That is an invalid argument.

It's really such a hard event that I spent all this time getting somewhat OK at. I just don't see how it's that disgusting, give a real life example of when it actually disturbed you or someone else. I've never seen anybody at a comp grossed out by feetsolving, I often see quite a crowd watching the event (Indiana 2012). Spectators love it.

How is it in any way a hard event. At one point I just grabbed a cube and solved it with feet to see if I could be bothered practising for OCR and I had no trouble solving it, it was just very slow at first. You don't need to learn anything new, it's exactly the same as 3x3.

 

[Dene]

I think it is a good point that there is absolutely nothing new with feet from normal 3x3. At least with OH you have to practise new techniques and algorithms, and generally approach solving a bit differently. With feet it is exactly the same thing but just using one foot to hold the cube in place and the other to force a layer to turn.

If people really want to feet solve, they can do so during normal 3x3 anyway...

 

[porkynator]

I honestly don't care about feetsolving being an official event or not.
But IF it has to be removed, how about removing it 18-24 months after the decision has been made? For example: WCA states now that feet will not be an official event anymore starting from 1/1/2015.
This way, I think, it will be less painful for people who are good at/practice/like feet. They will have more time to set new records/enjoy the event/decide what to do with their lives.
Anyway, if I HAD to choose, I would vote for keeping it.

 

[Coolster01]

How is it in any way a hard event. At one point I just grabbed a cube and solved it with feet to see if I could be bothered practising for OCR and I had no trouble solving it, it was just very slow at first. You don't need to learn anything new, it's exactly the same as 3x3.

I think it is a good point that there is absolutely nothing new with feet from normal 3x3. At least with OH you have to practise new techniques and algorithms, and generally approach solving a bit differently. With feet it is exactly the same thing but just using one foot to hold the cube in place and the other to force a layer to turn.

If people really want to feet solve, they can do so during normal 3x3 anyway...

No, it's tough to get good at here in North America. As I said before, australia is the only continent that has quite a few cubers but cheap feet records. You even stated that you weren't fast at first, so what's your point? Let's just say sub-50 is hard to get.

Feet is different when it comes to moves. I am one of the few who don't, but MANY solve with cross on F. Although turning is faster, lookahead is anything but easy. It really helps lookahead for when you go back to normal/OH solving (which is kinda offtopic because it isn't really different turning, but sometimes different angles cause the need to apply different moves). I personally change my feet solves more than my OH solves. There are also different PLL algs that many sub-50 solvers learn. I use about 3-5 different algs because I'm lazy. And, of course, many use Petrus.

EDIT: lol sorry if the first part came off as rude about australia, just defending my point. And if someone told you pyraminx was a tough event, would you really assume that they think pyraminx is a hard puzzle to solve?

 

[antoineccantin]

No, it's tough to get good at here in North America.

lol NARs are slow.

 

[Coolster01]

lol NARs are slow.

Well, he was talking about OcR, which compared to NAR is slow and NAR is fast... But yeah, it's slow. For now...