Older cubers discussions

[MarcelP]

I also don't agree that lookahead "just comes", at least, not for me. I had to work pretty hard at it to get anywhere at all

Mine started to kick in when I switched to Color Neutral. Solving CN without look ahead is harder if you can not turn fast (like me) because you waiste 70% time by frantic searching. When I started to learn CN I slowed down a lot looking ahead. Have you tried CN btw Mark?

Oooh ooh, just have to share this (one of those "I think I'm improving" moments)...

Spoiler

New PB Ao5 again!
12.99, 11.83, 12.38, 12.55, 16.86 = 12.64

Whoohoo!! Any progress is progress

Ok, so I'm not really stagnant and I am better than a year ago, but I can't even call my progression crawling pace. More like... erm... what do you call slower than crawling?

Ok, but at a certain speed progress is just much harder. I think at your speed you need to get a few things down:
-Cross + 1 in every solve planned out
-Learn all OLL's from every angle
-Predict AUF while doing the PLL.

So, that is some homework for you there..

 

[mark49152]

Mine started to kick in when I switched to Color Neutral. Solving CN without look ahead is harder if you can not turn fast (like me) because you waiste 70% time by frantic searching. When I started to learn CN I slowed down a lot looking ahead. Have you tried CN btw Mark?

I tried it briefly but decided that for me, the benefit of solving to a consistent colour orientation outweighed the slightly easier cross, so I don't intend to become a CN solver. If it works as a lookahead training technique then I'd use it , but I don't really understand why it would. If you have a habit of watching the pieces being solved, why would CN help you break that?

 

[mark49152]

Double post, sorry. Trying out Tapatalk and didn't see how to multi-quote before.

I wish I could reduce movecount..
7tps with 70 move solves is depressing.

As Marcel suggested, I recommend studying more efficient F2L and cross cases. Do you know where you are wasting moves? Your cross should average ~6 and each F2L pair ~7.5. Can you post your averages here?

The shortest solutions aren't necessarily the fastest of course, but there is so much to learn about F2L, much of which doesn't just come intuitively. Viktor's algs are great but I use them just as a study aid to see what they do, rather than learning them alg-style.

Oh, about Ao50 of and Ao100... I don't do a whole lot of solves in one sitting anymore so I hardly look at those numbers. Also, I usually reset on a new day (or after I have added the number of new solves to my running count). Today I've only had 64 timed solves so far and sitting with a 15.12 Ao50. I *think* that's better than before but I'm not sure.

IMHO, ao50 or more is a much better indicator of progress, even if you roll solves over day to day. Obviously it evens out the good and bad luck better, but more importantly it gives a more stable number, so you see improvements more often. Breaking an ao50 by a fraction of a second should be a regular occurrence, whereas an ao5 PB is usually the result of a lucky sequence of scrambles coinciding with being in the zone, and you can wait ages for that lucky coincidence to come around again.

 

[MarcelP]

If you have a habit of watching the pieces being solved, why would CN help you break that?

When I was not CN I knew all the colors that where needed in the solve for building F2L. Doing white cross means, you can find a white corner and look for the matching edge. But that was not how I solved, I also ignored the yellow edges which makes you find the other edges faster. That way you do not have to start a pair with a corner (like most people do). When you switch to CN, there is no way of telling what color to ignore. Well, at least not when you just starting out. So you really must apply the technique of taking a corner first, and then find the matching edge. And by starting this technique (also on white cross) I managed to start my look ahead working for me. I know all F2L cases blind so I can look for the next corner. Also, finding easy crosses mean, more easy transition to F2L (by looking ahead in doing cross). Most of my crosse + 1 are sub 5 secs these days.

 

[mark49152]

When you switch to CN, there is no way of telling what color to ignore. Well, at least not when you just starting out. So you really must apply the technique of taking a corner first, and then find the matching edge.

OK, that makes sense. You're kind of giving your brain a tougher job to do so that the routine job seems easier . Maybe I will give that a go. It still depends on being able to do your cases blind though, which is really the fundamental key to lookahead.

Right now I am focused on blind cross practice using the same techniques I do for F2L. So, while solving the cross blind, I try to mentally track both pieces of a CE pair. It's haaaard.

 

[sneaklyfox]

Ok, but at a certain speed progress is just much harder. I think at your speed you need to get a few things down:
-Cross + 1 in every solve planned out
-Learn all OLL's from every angle
-Predict AUF while doing the PLL.

So, that is some homework for you there..

You're right.

And yeah, I don't plan cross+1 most of the time at all. Only rarely when I have like a 2 or 3 move cross I would try to predict where a corner would end up and sometimes the edge that goes with it. I don't do Xcross. If it happens it's by fluke. Mostly I just scan the cube while doing cross.

OLLs I probably could look some up for more angles/algs... there are a couple that I hate but OLLs are probably not going to make as much difference as cross+1.

I already predict AUF while doing PLL so that's done.

Thanks, Marcel. It really gives you a kick in the butt when someone slower than you has to tell you what to do to get faster. This is giving me an idea though. How about we (everyone here who follows this thread and wants to join) keep each other accountable about focused practice? Commit to improving something and maybe post updates and things here... we can all help each other along to meeting our next goal? Marcel has been really awesome with dedicated focused practice which is a big part of why he's come so far since sub-1-goal days and why I subscribed to this thread (besides the comradery we have here). I need to be more like him.

So anyway... I'm going to start cross+1 practice today.

 

[AmazingCuber]

@ sneaklyfox
I'm at about the same speed as you. I think I should really start practicing cross+1 and in general I need to do targeted practice. Great tips Marcel!

 

[kcl]

Hi, Marcel from Holland here

I'm going to do a cross+1 average for fun. I'll update this with results later.

 

[mark49152]

How about we (everyone here who follows this thread and wants to join) keep each other accountable about focused practice? Commit to improving something and maybe post updates and things here... we can all help each other along to meeting our next goal?

So anyway... I'm going to start cross+1 practice today.

Great idea, I'm in, and will start with cross+1 too. See a couple of posts above for my practice plan. My cross ao50 is 3.3 and cross+1 is 7.0 so I reckon a good first target would be 3.0 and 6.0 respectively.

 

[UB]

I am just 32 sec avg. Any help here ?

 

[Schmidt]

Start on page 1. If you still have questions when you get to this page again, feel free to ask. Good luck and see you in a week

 

[MarcelP]

You're right.

And yeah, I don't plan cross+1 most of the time at all. Only rarely when I have like a 2 or 3 move cross I would try to predict where a corner would end up and sometimes the edge that goes with it. I don't do Xcross. If it happens it's by fluke. Mostly I just scan the cube while doing cross.

OLLs I probably could look some up for more angles/algs... there are a couple that I hate but OLLs are probably not going to make as much difference as cross+1.

I already predict AUF while doing PLL so that's done.

Thanks, Marcel. It really gives you a kick in the butt when someone slower than you has to tell you what to do to get faster. This is giving me an idea though. How about we (everyone here who follows this thread and wants to join) keep each other accountable about focused practice? Commit to improving something and maybe post updates and things here... we can all help each other along to meeting our next goal? Marcel has been really awesome with dedicated focused practice which is a big part of why he's come so far since sub-1-goal days and why I subscribed to this thread (besides the comradery we have here). I need to be more like him.

So anyway... I'm going to start cross+1 practice today.

Cool I think I will start with that also. I am pretty OK on crosses now (after almost two years LOL). Cross+1 is hard though. But Feliks said in one of his video's he is always looking out for his first pair during inspection. I guess you need to do that to get two sub 6 solves in one competition

 

[cubizh]

Have you abandoned color neutrality? I've seen more than 90% of your recent video solves using white cross, was curious to see if you (consciously or not) abandoned trying to follow other cross possibilities or you are just faster using just white or is it just a coincidence.

 

[sneaklyfox]

Here's my base:
Cross Ao50 = 1.73
Cross+1 Ao50 = 3.99

The cross+1 is without planning the first pair for the most part which is what I do normally. Sometimes it was fairly smooth and fine but sometimes I had a big pause especially when there was no corner easily visible and/or edge was stuck in the back where I couldn't see it.

I also tried some (about 10) full solves with planning the whole cross+1. Sometimes I had to stare at the cube a long time to find a corner that would actually appear in the U layer after cross and some crosses were harder for tracking the first pair because of too many faces moving. So I failed about half the time. The other half of the time I got better than average results. On two of the successes I got 12.x times which is fairly good for me and I was pleased that they felt easy to get. I'm taking as long as I need during inspection.

 

[kcl]

I'm back, best cross+1 ao12 was 2.39. Best ao5 was 1.88.

 

[mark49152]

Welcome to
~~ Marcel's Bar ~~
Winter Festival of Cross+1
"Get in here and grab a beer!"​

A celebration of the joy of cross - open to all. No rules, except your own. Fun is mandatory

[table="width: 700, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td]Jolly punter[/td]
[td]Starting point[/td]
[td]Goal[/td]
[td]PB progress[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Marcel[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Melody[/td]
[td]ao50 = 3.99[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Kennan[/td]
[td]ao12 = 2.39, ao5 = 1.88[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Mark[/td]
[td]ao50 = 7.03[/td]
[td]ao50 < 6 by 31 March[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

 

[kcl]

Welcome to
~~ Marcel's Bar ~~
Winter Festival of Cross+1
"Get in here and grab a beer!"​

A celebration of the joy of cross - open to all. No rules, except your own. Fun is mandatory

[table="width: 700, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td]Jolly punter[/td]
[td]Starting point[/td]
[td]Goal[/td]
[td]PB progress[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Marcel[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Melody[/td]
[td]ao50 = 3.99[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Kennan[/td]
[td]ao12 = 2.39, ao5 = 1.88[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Mark[/td]
[td]ao50 = 7.03[/td]
[td]ao50 < 6 by 31 March[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Goal: sub 2 ao12?

 

[mark49152]

Well that's a crappy start - 7.86 ao50. I nearly gave up about 15 solves in when I got a 15.98.

 

[sneaklyfox]

Welcome to
~~ Marcel's Bar ~~
Winter Festival of Cross+1
"Get in here and grab a beer!"​

A celebration of the joy of cross - open to all. No rules, except your own. Fun is mandatory

[table="width: 700, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td]Jolly punter[/td]
[td]Starting point[/td]
[td]Goal[/td]
[td]PB progress[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Marcel[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Melody[/td]
[td]ao50 = 3.99[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Kennan[/td]
[td]ao12 = 2.39, ao5 = 1.88[/td]
[td]?[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Mark[/td]
[td]ao50 = 7.03[/td]
[td]ao50 < 6 by 31 March[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Haha, awesome. Hmm... maybe I'll start with a goal of sub-3.5 Ao50 and see what happens from there.

 

[MarcelP]

Have you abandoned color neutrality? I've seen more than 90% of your recent video solves using white cross, was curious to see if you (consciously or not) abandoned trying to follow other cross possibilities or you are just faster using just white or is it just a coincidence.

No, I have changed technique. I train CN without using white cross at all. But when I do timed solves I automatically do x2. Then I scan for white edges. If one or more is correctly oriented then I continue white cross. If not I do quick scan around the cube for different cross. My competition PB's are all on none white crosses I sometimes do Ao5 on all crosses. There is no real difference in my times. But starting out with a fixed color really helps my confidence. anyway.. this technique is really working for me