Older cubers discussions

rjpcal said:
Any chance of adding me to the over-40s rankings?

WCA: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2016PETE06
Birth year: 1974

I learned the Ideal Solution as a kid in the 80s (averaged 1:30-2:00 with that method), then last year picked up CFOP and started attending competitions when my then-10yo-son took up an interest in speedcubing.

Thanks!
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Sure thing. I'll update it after worlds.

@mark49152 - I've been thinking a shared Google doc for home PBs might be a good idea.
 
@rjpcal - Another 80's solver, like myself. Welcome to the mature cubers mad house! :)

Best of luck to all older cubers at Worlds today. Hope you get fantastic results :)

There has been a lot of talk about practice strategy in this thread so I thought I would share with you my latest initiative. I have chatted a lot with Ron van Bruchem online and recently wanted insight into his own practice. Coincidentally if you want a bit of motivation in the age question, Ron's first comp after turning 50 his 3x3 went ... 10.65, 13.16, 10.15, ..... but unfortunately he got a couple of bad solves. Thats over 50 so there is hope for us yet!! I was also very lucky to have a beer with Mats Valk with @Shaky Hands in London last weekend and also discussed weak points with him. My weak points of course, not sure Mats has any! hehe.

So after talking with other cubers I have come up with a practice schedule which I thought others on plateaus might want to see and of course any feedback or suggestions are very much appreciated.

My weak points - It is important to understand your own weaknesses in order to concentrate on them. Simply doing averages of 100 over and over will not always help, especially when trying to get fast in your 40's. I have highlighted my worst weak points as:-
  • Cross - I rarely take advantage of easy X-Crosses
  • Cross - My transition from cross to first pair is poor
  • F2L - I still have some bad intuitive cases, especially for left back slot
  • LL - I need to try and avoid more dot case OLLs
  • PLL - My PLL recognition is slow
When you think I currently average globally about 15.25 Seconds, getting to sub 15 should be possible just working on one of these and I firmly believe sub 14 should be attainable with concentrated long term practice. I have come up with the following schedule for a practice session:-

  • Cross Training (25 Crosses) - This will change over time progressing through the following:-
    • Unsighted cross solving - Planning the complete cross which I always do but when it is s difficult case I do not always work out during inspection whether a D, D' or D2 is needed to align the centers. This will force me to start working on this
    • Sighted cross solving tracking a corner - The natural progression from the above where I track an F2L corner whilst forcing myself not to look at the cross pieces I am solving
    • Predicting the position of an F2L corner after the cross - Like above but doing the tracking during inspection
    • Predicting F2L corner whilst tracking its corresponding edge - By this stage I should know where my first pair is
    • [Note] Whilst doing all of the above I will save scrambles with a connected pair that is either from the cross side or an F2L connected pair to use later in X-Cross specific training
  • Slow Solves - About 25 exploratory slow solves. These are really slow as in 30-40 second solves for me. With emphasis on:-
    • Watching piece movement during cross to try and spot say easy F2L cases that might come up that aren't necessarily the ones I am tracking
    • Making a note of any bad F2L cases were I am rotating where I do not need to
    • Trying to influence better F2L cases
    • Trying to preserve connected F2L cases whilst solving others
    • Using partial edge control to influence better OLLs
  • Normal Solves - About 50 Normal solves trying to adopt as much of the above as possible but without reducing speed. This is about 75% max TPS
  • High TPS Solves - About 25 fast as possible solves holding onto lookahead as much as possible
  • PLL Drills - About 10 drills including all PLLs
Post training:-
  • Self Analysis - What went well / What went badly
  • Review better algorithms for the bad F2L cases I highlighted during the session
  • Study PLL 2 sided recognition https://sarah.cubing.net/3x3x3/pll-recognition-guide
  • Relearn one Winter Variation Case or one COLL case and drill it

I have been doing this for a couple of days and have already noticed some good improvement. I had 5 sub 14.5 averages of 12 yesterday and six 11.xy full step solves. I will keep you updated on progress.

I am also filming most of these for self analysis. Hoping for my first sub 14 ao12 soon and will post it if I get it on film.

Apologies for the mammoth post but I thought it might be useful collateral in the discussions about practice and especially targeted practice. Any comments most welcome fellow oldies :)
 
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Thank you Selkie,

great post! I like the details a lot and the addition of how many solves you'll do for each, TPS...
Great plan. You have given yourself a lot to do.
Nice to see someone brilliant striving to be even better.

A bit advanced for myself but at least it made me think about putting my own list together.
I average 20 seconds A0100, 19 on A012 with a PB of 13.xx
Being a premium member on Feliks' cubeskills.com he has sent me an excellent critic of 5 of my solves.
Lots to work on though! I have already dropped 3 seconds or so on my average in a few weeks.

This is the plan (shortened from 4 pages :):

1. Work on the white cross. Plan the whole of it and then execute it from memory without looking at it and rotationless
using cstimer then looking at the optimal cross solution in tools. Practise a few minutes a day, great tips from
Jperm video.
2. My cross to F2L transition is apparently quite good however I mostly solve in the front right corner
and am very rough with my right hand (U/R). I should aim for 35 moves for the cross and all F2L.
I seem very inefficient and do far too many moves and rotations. I try and do it all intuitively,
turns out my intuition is a bit rubbish so will learn some (lookahead friendly) algs for the tough cases and look
where pieces move to understand the concept. I should be able to set up the next pair in 3/4 moves from any position.
Look at cubeskills.com F2L algs and learn the tricky one.
Then work at multiple angle sheet at sub 20.
3. I know 30/57 OLLs but my two look is effective enough so not the priority to learn more right now, saying this that one dot with 2 lines on either side comes up far too often for my liking!
4. Good last layer for a 20 seconds solver. I need to do U(') to set up the PLL instead of rotating.

The aim is to get half as good as Selkie in about 10 years time :)

BTW Does anyone know how I can be added to the over 40s list/table please?
https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/persons/2017VIDO02
Date: 1976 Country: France

all the best to our fellow oldies in Paris indeed

Nervous Nico enjoying watching http://www.rubiksworldparis2017.com/en/home/ LIVE
 
mark49152 said:
Took it carefully on the third for a 7.09 success. It's nice to have a result on the board but that's slow for me these days.
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Exactly matches what I thought when I checked cube comps. "Oh, he won't be happy about that one... ah, probably had to be careful after the first two"

Logiqx said:
Yay. I didn't screw up!
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Nice jump on the average! Could be a friendly rivalry potentially brewing among you, @Lid, and @Jason Green.
 
pglewis said:
Nice jump on the average! Could be a friendly rivalry potentially brewing among you, @Lid, and @Jason Green.
Click to expand...

Thanks. It's about my global average so it was nice to reproduce the times in comp.

All solves were basically slow turning and i turned slightly slower during LL algs to play safe. :)

Edit: No videos as I wanted to reduce distractions
 
Selkie said:
Apologies for the mammoth post but I thought it might be useful collateral in the discussions about practice and especially targeted practice.
Click to expand...

Love it, Chris. I have a lot of the same stuff on my list but some great new ideas in there for me as well.

CP recog will take me some time but I think it could eventually pay off to the tune of a second or even two in delays, for me. It's still an exercise relegated to slow solves but the hope is it'll start to come together just when I need it. One or two seconds didn't use to be a big deal, now it is.

One other one I'd add to the list is LSLL scrambles/drills.
 
Well, none of the events went well for me today (2x2, 3x3, pyra) but for Joseph (my son) they went extremely well. I'm very proud of him -- he beat me in all three events and got a bunch of impressive PBs, including PB average in every event he took part in.

Earlier in the comp, I got a 32.00 PB average (with all 32s as my three results) for FMC, conveniently placing 32nd. I also got PB single and average for skewb, and did ok in feet. My results are here. It's been an amazing competition, and it's not over yet. Well, it is for me as a competitor, but I'm looking forward to some serious spectating tomorrow. :-)
 
bubbagrub said:
Well, none of the events went well for me today (2x2, 3x3, pyra) but for Joseph (my son) they went extremely well. I'm very proud of him -- he beat me in all three events and got a bunch of impressive PBs, including PB average in every event he took part in.

Earlier in the comp, I got a 32.00 PB average (with all 32s as my three results) for FMC, conveniently placing 32nd. I also got PB single and average for skewb, and did ok in feet. My results are here. It's been an amazing competition, and it's not over yet. Well, it is for me as a competitor, but I'm looking forward to some serious spectating tomorrow. :)
Click to expand...

Go Joseph!
 
@Nervous Nico - I am flattered, thank you sir.

Yours too is a great post. Concentrated practice is a great way to boost improvement and you seem to have a good plan of action and I look forward to seeing you progress. Cross improvement I think is a big key and slower crosses will help tracking but great to hear your first pair is going well. I would always recommend learning F2L intuitively first since all algorithms assume the slot you are solving is the only empty slot where with intuitive you can use empty slots to your advantage. Once you are confident by all means replace bad intuitive cases with algs.

Also consider filming solves, it is sometimes difficult to be subjective after a good solve, take this 9.67:-


Without filming it I might be happy with the solve as I have no way of telling how it went, however by reviewing the solve:-
  • With a cross that easy with no correcting D moves at the end I should have planned first pair rather than the pause
  • Poor lookahead disguised by higher TPS
  • Horrible pause at OLL
There is nothing like self critique to aid improvement. Best of luck :)
 
Another quick update.

5BLD 18:45 success on the second attempt. I went a little slower after the first DNF. For the third I was forced to rush because I had only ~14 minutes of time left. I made it in 14:02 but sadly it was DNF. Memo was good and I think it was a simple execution error like undoing a setup wrong. 13th place as the slowest of 13 who got a success :).

MBLD final attempt 12/16 in 60:00. The best thing about this was competing alongside the world's best. It was humbling and inspiring. My timekeeping was OK. Ran out of time on the last cube, forgot the corner memo on another cube, and the other two fails looked like execution errors.

3BLD 1:01.84. Another PB. First two attempts felt fast but were actually slow, as well as DNFs. I took the final attempt steady and guess what, it was fast (for me). I'll have to watch the video to find out what went on there. Nice to be in the next round though!

3x3 and 4x4. All my sighted solving sucked but I got one decent single in each event as a consolation. I didn't do 2x2 because I didn't want to embarrass myself :)

Just 3BLD second round left for me tomorrow, and of course I'm looking forward to watching some exciting finals!
 
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Very nice posts on deliberate practice @Selkie!

I'm now at a point where I feel I 'd need to start working on something new. After I broke sub-30, I learned PLL to get to sub-25, then I learned OLL and headed towards sub-20. Now I've completed the race to sub-20 and lately my running Ao100 has quite reliably showed 19.xx. I'm quite confident to say I've now reached that goal. So, what's the next thing to learn as I head towards sub-18 and beyond?

Color neutrality? I tried a bit of this, joined the race to sub-25 with yellow cross, but didn't finish it as my times were already around 22 seconds without practice. No motivation to complete a race that I already won. I suppose I could jump right back into the race to sub-20 with yellow cross and aim for white/yellow CN. Or is it better to go for full CN? The other crosses are significantly weaker. I'd need a lot of practice already to get those sub-25.

Planning XCrosses? I feel this could be very helpful. I'm thinking about doing timed solves of cross+1. First with unlimited inspection time, then gradually adding inspection time into the mix. The learning curve would be steep, but it would come with great rewards.

Revisit ZZ? It's been about a year since I switched from ZZ to CFOP. The main thing I noticed in that change was how easy the cross is compared to EOLine. Maybe if I spent a couple of months with ZZ, planning Xcrosses wouldn't seem so hard anymore? ZZ would also help me solidify the COLL cases I know. They don't come up often enough in CFOP. If I went ZZ, I'd also look into WV. I love the idea of ZZ with lots of WV.

Roux? Eh, probably not. I hate the M-slice. Though I'm intrigued by the concept of block building. Currently I suck at that and I feel getting better at it would certainly also help with Xcrosses. Maybe rather learn block building by working on FMC?

Anything else? I don't know. What would be a good next step after full PLL/OLL and breaking the sub-20 barrier? Ideas are welcome! :)

I know there are still a lot of seconds to shave off just by improving what I already know. F2L can never get fast enough and my OLL/PLL recognition could improve a lot. But I'm the kind of person who needs something new every now and then. If I get stuck doing the same things too long, I get bored and eventually stop practicing. This is why I'm looking for something new to add to the mix.
 
I tested timing an Ao12 of Cross+1 with unlimited inspection.

avg of 12: 6.38
5.84, 8.19, 5.40, 4.01, (3.25), 5.26, (12.57), 7.36, 4.11, 7.37, 6.10, 10.11

That's some massive variation! Basically, if I managed to plan the first F2L pair correctly, it was a sub-6, sometimes a lot faster. When I messed up, or planned only one piece and follow the other while solving cross, it was a lot slower. On some of the scrambles planning the first F2L pair during inspection seemed just about impossible. I think my cube visualization skills are still far from the level where I could consistently plan the first pair during inspection. I might do some more of this, would be interesting to see how it develops over a few hundred attempts.

Edit:

Next 12 solves a lot better.

avg of 12: 5.33
4.81, (11.31), 6.52, 5.23, (3.66), 5.27, 4.84, 5.39, 5.08, 4.80, 5.32, 5.98

Maybe this is something that can be learned! :)
 
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Selkie said:
@mark49152 - A Great performance all round on the BLD events mate, I wouldn't give a second thought to the sighted solves to be honest. Best of luck in 3BLD again today.
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Thanks Chris. 1:08 today, I'm happy enough.

I also did the one thing I always feared I might - I forgot to pull down the blindfold and just closed my eyes instead :). Instant DNF of the second solve. Next time I will make sure to practise more with a blindfold leading up to the event.
 
So I was out of cubing for a couple of years and just had to re-learn Roux.

Originally my average was about a minute. I just did an average of 5 of 47.9 seconds! Yeah, still slow and crappy, but it's progress for me :) I fumbled the ending on one of those badly that cost me a second or two too.

Anyway, going to keep practicing. I've made a list of things to work on and algorithms to drill and soon I hope to be working on breaking the 40 second barrier.

Edit: 5 minutes later, I got a 40.06 single. OK, so admittedly there was a skip on the Permute Corner step, but I'll take it!
 
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mark49152 said:
Thanks Chris. 1:08 today, I'm happy enough.

I also did the one thing I always feared I might - I forgot to pull down the blindfold and just closed my eyes instead :). Instant DNF of the second solve. Next time I will make sure to practise more with a blindfold leading up to the event.
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One of my biggest worries at the World's. Luckily I managed to DNF in other ways.
 
Am finally home from WCs. Had a great time meeting all the Oldies again plus, for the first time, @moralsh, @Brest and a bloke called Erno something.
Journey home started badly but I had some good company and did a successful blind solve in front of loads of strangers in the buffet car (full story in Blindfold Accomplishments).
Hope everyone gets, or has got, home safely.
 
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