Older cubers discussions

[JohnnyReggae]

Eventually a sub 1 minute 4x4 single It's taken quite a while and I've come close a few times in the last 2 weeks, and I was just thinking it was a matter of time before it arrived .... 10 minutes later ... bam !!

59.79 B' L' Fw' B' L2 D U2 F U' Rw' Fw Uw2 Rw U Uw2 L2 Uw2 Fw L2 Fw' F Rw' Uw L2 Fw B' F' U2 Fw2 Uw2 R' D Fw' Uw B D Fw' Rw2 R' L

Also broke my mo3 and ao5 for 4x4 ... 1:06.43 and 1:09.83 respectively.

Loving my DIY Yuxin Blue M with Thunderclap springs. I think it's better than the WuQue M. Still haven't had a pop with the Blue, while I've had many with the WuQue.

 

[mark49152]

I was thinking about this today. I'd reviewed an audio memo just in my head 4 or 5 times before starting execution which is a completed waste of time. Blind is almost always about quick singles. I'll stick to 1 review at most.

I'll try to explain better what I meant by that. I think you got it anyway, but I feel like writing about it because it's my favourite topic .

Working on speed, to me, means pushing tasks beyond the rate at which they currently feel comfortable. For memo, that might mean scanning the cube faster, not letting your eyes dwell as long as they want to on each sticker, not allowing yourself to pause after each pair to let the image sink in better, etc. It takes conscious effort to force yourself to make these kinds of changes. I think it's what some people call rushing memo.

For beginner BLDers, say 3+ minutes, if they are anything like I was, memo is done at a comfortable pace and then checked and reviewed and recited until absolutely sure it has stuck, and only then will they start execution. The quickest wins at this level are not about rushing, as described above, it's about eliminating some of these safety checks, and being a bit braver by trusting yourself that you don't need another review.

It depends on the method, execution and person of course, but for me I think the point at which I struggled to improve further without focusing on rushing memo and becoming better at that was around 1:30 with memo about 40-50 seconds. It's not a clean break of course - I've always done some speed work, and I still have to push myself to do fewer reviews. But I think rushing memo is what got me past 1:30.

Of course for some of the younger, faster BLDers they seem to easily get sub-1 before they even have to think about how to improve, and what feels like rushing to me would be sluggish to them .

 

[chtiger]

I use Hoya so will recommend Hoya.

I was thinking Yau was the popular one. I did say I was always confusing the two. That's why I asked. I'll give Hoya a shot next time I get motivated (unless more people recommend something else).

r2 as in the 4bld method? (Sort of tangentially related, but it looks like Gianfranco also solves 4×4×4 with 3-cycles on the wings, rather than using a conventional sighted method.)

Interesting to see someone using a blind method in comp and getting sub-1:00 (and sub-15 avg in 3x3). I just did it as an experiment, didn't see it as a viable method. Maybe I'll practice it a while and see if I can get sub-2 at least. Based on my 3x3 avg, I think I should avg around 1:50 on 4x4.

Eventually a sub 1 minute 4x4 single It's taken quite a while and I've come close a few times in the last 2 weeks, and I was just thinking it was a matter of time before it arrived .... 10 minutes later ... bam !!

59.79 B' L' Fw' B' L2 D U2 F U' Rw' Fw Uw2 Rw U Uw2 L2 Uw2 Fw L2 Fw' F Rw' Uw L2 Fw B' F' U2 Fw2 Uw2 R' D Fw' Uw B D Fw' Rw2 R' L

What method do you use?

 

[Jason Green]

Nobody? I'll take that as confirmation that 4x4 sucks and I shouldn't practice it. Movin' on.

I definitely like Hoya with 3-2-3 edge pairing! I'm down to about 1:20 average now, still need my first sub 1 single. I did finally break 3 mins on 5x5 with a 2:52, and averaging about 3:30 so it's getting there.

 

[One Wheel]

I definitely like Hoya with 3-2-3 edge pairing! I'm down to about 1:20 average now, still need my first sub 1 single. I did finally break 3 mins on 5x5 with a 2:52, and averaging about 3:30 so it's getting there.

That's interesting. I'm a touch faster than you on 5x5 (singles as low as 2:45, average about 3:20), but just today I think I did my second sub-1:25 4x4 single at 1:20.xx, as part of a 1:40.xx Ao5. What's interesting is that I would consider myself better at 4x4 than at 5x5.

 

[JohnnyReggae]

I was thinking Yau was the popular one. I did say I was always confusing the two. That's why I asked. I'll give Hoya a shot next time I get motivated (unless more people recommend something else).

What method do you use?

I use Yau for 4x4 and standard Reduction for anything bigger. I've tried Hoya for 4x4 and while I managed a single close to what I was doing with Yau at the time, I still prefer Yau. It flows a little better for me than Hoya and I find it a little less restrictive than Hoya. I could spend more time with Hoya, but in reality I probably won't for now.

 

[newtonbase]

I've never been any quicker with Hoya than Yau but I enjoy it a lot more.

 

[newtonbase]

After my only 3 3BLD attempts getting me a PB Mo3 yesterday I got 5 DNFs from 5 today. I wish I knew how to achieve some sort of consistency.

 

[JohnnyReggae]

Eventually a sub 1 minute 4x4 single It's taken quite a while and I've come close a few times in the last 2 weeks, and I was just thinking it was a matter of time before it arrived .... 10 minutes later ... bam !!

59.79 B' L' Fw' B' L2 D U2 F U' Rw' Fw Uw2 Rw U Uw2 L2 Uw2 Fw L2 Fw' F Rw' Uw L2 Fw B' F' U2 Fw2 Uw2 R' D Fw' Uw B D Fw' Rw2 R' L

Also broke my mo3 and ao5 for 4x4 ... 1:06.43 and 1:09.83 respectively.

Loving my DIY Yuxin Blue M with Thunderclap springs. I think it's better than the WuQue M. Still haven't had a pop with the Blue, while I've had many with the WuQue.

In this afternoon's 4x4 session I managed to break my PB and get 2 more sub 1 minutes ... with 1 solve separating them.

59.63 U2 L Uw B' L' R Uw L B2 R2 B Rw2 R U' L2 Rw2 F D2 Uw' R U L2 D' F2 B' R F' R' B' L Fw L Fw' B' R Uw F2 R2 F' D2

59.78 U Fw F2 L D R2 F R B' R Fw2 D2 Uw2 B F' Uw' Rw' Uw' F2 Uw2 U2 R' B R2 D' F B2 D L' D U Uw' L R Fw L2 B' L U L

Also have now broken all my 4x4 PB's

mo3 = 1:02.99
ao5 = 1:05.78
ao12 = 1:08.11
ao100 = 1:13.74

Quite chuffed that the practice is eventually paying off

 

[pglewis]

I'll give Hoya a shot next time I get motivated (unless more people recommend something else).

As you can see from the feedback already both Hoya and Yau have great potential. It's just a matter of which one speaks to you more. Yau is great if you can get used to the move restrictions and embrace solving half-centers. Hoya gives more freedom during centers. I tried both initially but Yau is what I would have come up with, left to my own devices. I'm sure I could switch to Hoya and match my Yau times within a week or so.

 

[pglewis]

It's been a great week for me. Got another blind success at the cafe today, which is definitely more challenging than the solitude of my desk at home. Got 1/2 on a two cube attempt a few days ago, messed up setups somewhere on the first but got the second. Meanwhile, every regular 3x3 PB has been busted this past week including my first sub 20 single. Best Ao5 is in the mid 20s now and I'm overdue for a 17-18 single to show up.

 

[dboeren]

I'm pretty close to done re-learning 4x4 using reduction after a long absence. I just need to finish memorizing the three parity algorithms, and last night I learned how to pair dedges two at a time so I'm pretty happy with that.

Once I've got to 100% I do want to check out Hoya, Yau, and Meyer to see how those work.

I'm currently using an Aosu from a couple years ago, is there any substantially better 4x4 out now? Do magnets help the feel on 4x4 as much as with 3x3's?

Other than that, I want to spend some time working on my Roux blocks as I'm currently very slow on these. So the plan is to drill inspection and work with a block trainer to see if I can improve this. Probably will be a while before I get to work on it much as we've got guests in town for another week and a half.

 

[JohnnyReggae]

I'm currently using an Aosu from a couple years ago, is there any substantially better 4x4 out now? Do magnets help the feel on 4x4 as much as with 3x3's?

At the moment I would recommend either the Yuxin Blue (with Thunderclap springs) or the QiYi WuQue. Both with magnets are amazing. The magnets make a huge difference to a 4x4, for sure

I stopped using my mini Aosu a while back as it pops way to much. The newer 4x4's are much better IMO.

 

[muchacho]

18.307 Mo100 PB (was 18.540 from 3 weeks ago), but it's a fluke, I'm slower than usual for many days already, I hope it's only that the heat wave is affecting me.

 

[newtonbase]

1:23.85 3BLD single PB by 3s. Made 2 major execution errors which I reversed plus missed an advanced M2 move because I knew it was good and rushed it.
I also got a 1:17 yesterday but was someone else's scramble that I knew would be easy so it only counts for bragging.

EDIT: Next solve I misremembered 2nd to last edge as B not V which cost me a 1:36.08 Mo3, which would have been a PB by over 16s!

 

[dboeren]

At the moment I would recommend either the Yuxin Blue (with Thunderclap springs) or the QiYi WuQue. Both with magnets are amazing. The magnets make a huge difference to a 4x4, for sure

Thanks, I'll check those two out. It's amusing to me that every bigger Yuxin cube seems to come with the wrong springs from the factory

 

[NewbieCuber]

Sorry for the wall of text, but I really want to share this learning technique.

I'm noticing that I'm still losing a lot of time making my bottom cross. It's slowly getting better but I really need to focus on getting the cross done in around 5 seconds or less.

So I have a "Cross Cube" with all the stickers removed except for the centers and the white cross. I find that it's a really good learning tool which helps me focus on just this one aspect of solving. This brings me to my favorite learning technique which I would like to share with all of you. I've had a long fascination with the act of learning. As a music teacher I'm amazed that even at high end schools like the Berkley school of music or the San Francisco conservatory of music they teach composition, harmony and such. But they don't teach how to learn efficiently.

In any case, one of the techniques is I.P.G.E.C. or Identify Problem, Gradually Expand Context.

Identify Problem : My cross formation is slow.
Gradually expand context : Start with the simplest version of the problem task and slowly, gradually, expand the context of the problem until you're solving the problem or performing the task which was the original problem. In this case, I use a cube with only the center stickers and cross edge stickers. This removes all other distractions and allows you to focus on just this problem. This is the simplest version of the task which was the original goal.

Learn to perform this simplified task with no stress or tension in your muscles. Don't move on until this simplified task is easy and trivial.

Gradually Expand Context (part 2) : I also have an F2L cube which, as you may imagine, has the stickers from the top layer removed (except for the yellow center). Start solving the white cross with the F2L cube. This gives you more stickers in which to find your patterns. It adds a bit more difficulty to the pattern recognition aspect. Don't move on until this version of the task is easy and trivial.

Gradually Expand Context (Part 3) : Use a fully stickered cube. Now I'm solving the original problem, but I've gradually built my skill set up to this point instead of trying to perform the difficult original task immediately.

My next step would be to go back to the cross cube and learn to solve the cross without rotating the cube. Then gradually work up to the fully stickered cube. After that I will work on looking at the simplified cross cube without moving anything and visualizing the set of moves to create the cross. I should, with much practice, be able to say out loud what the 8 or fewer moves are to create the cross and then make those moves with my eyes closed. Gradually do the same thing with the F2L cube and then the fully stickered cube.

It sounds like a lot of work but I find that in the long run you actually can learn very complex tasks in a much shorter time by Identifying the problem, reduce it to the simplest version of the problem, then gradually expand the context until you are solving the original problem.

 

[NewbieCuber]

Working on speed, to me, means pushing tasks beyond the rate at which they currently feel comfortable.

I keep relating speedcubing back to playing and teaching music. In music one of the learning mistakes I see my students make is that they use a metronome (which is a good thing) and keep pushing themselves to play faster and faster. They are always working at the speed where it's almost, but not quite, a train wreck. The problem is, the student is teaching themselves how to play with maximum tension and stress where they're almost ready to fail.

I feel that this is wrong. To play fast, you practice slowly. Instead of pushing yourself to play (or speedsolve) at a speed where it's almost failing, find the fastest speed you can play, or speedsolve, with zero tension or stress. Then gradually work that zero tension task to faster and faster speeds. Now you're teaching yourself to do the task without any stress or anxiety instead of teaching yourself to do the task with maximum anxiety. Certainly you can still practice speedsolving fast and work on your personal best times. But I think you'll find that there's a lot of benefit in learning what your zero stress speed is and pushing that speed up. As that zero stress speed increases your PB speed will automatically increase as well because you're teaching yourself to solve without anxiety, without stress, without tension.

 

[One Wheel]

I keep relating speedcubing back to playing and teaching music. In music one of the learning mistakes I see my students make is that they use a metronome (which is a good thing) and keep pushing themselves to play faster and faster. They are always working at the speed where it's almost, but not quite, a train wreck. The problem is, the student is teaching themselves how to play with maximum tension and stress where they're almost ready to fail.

I feel that this is wrong. To play fast, you practice slowly. Instead of pushing yourself to play (or speedsolve) at a speed where it's almost failing, find the fastest speed you can play, or speedsolve, with zero tension or stress. Then gradually work that zero tension task to faster and faster speeds. Now you're teaching yourself to do the task without any stress or anxiety instead of teaching yourself to do the task with maximum anxiety. Certainly you can still practice speedsolving fast and work on your personal best times. But I think you'll find that there's a lot of benefit in learning what your zero stress speed is and pushing that speed up. As that zero stress speed increases your PB speed will automatically increase as well because you're teaching yourself to solve without anxiety, without stress, without tension.

As a violinist myself, I know you are entirely correct with regard to music. I'm not entirely sure about cubing though. I think there may be enough difference that it is sometimes worthwhile to push speed beyond your comfort level. Particularly when performing algorithms, where you know exactly what moves you need to make and all that matters is how fast you do them.

 

[pglewis]

I feel that this is wrong. To play fast, you practice slowly. Instead of pushing yourself to play (or speedsolve) at a speed where it's almost failing, find the fastest speed you can play, or speedsolve, with zero tension or stress.

It depends upon the context. With blind memo (what Mark was talking about) it is common to reach a comfort plateau where a lot of people get stuck after early improvement. Based on experience and success, the best people out there will all tell you that you need to push memo outside your comfort zone to progress faster when this happens. That does mean a higher failure rate initially, but 3-bld is all about the fastest single in competition so a 1/3 fast success is a better result than a slow mean of 3. It also depends on what stage you're at; it won't help me to push memo if I'm still making a lot of execution mistakes for example. So keep in mind the advice was specifically aimed at someone already adept at blind solving looking to get beyond a memo speed plateau.

In contrast, I think cross improvement and F2L often benefit from unlimited inspection time and slow, untimed solves. You can reach a comfort zone for cross that you're able to execute in 15 seconds without taking it much further, whereas unlimited inspection allows you to consider more efficient solutions.

csTimer has a "Solve Cross" function under "Tools" that will give you optimal cross solutions for each face. This can be very handy to pick up tricks you may not have considered.

There is a cool "cross trainer" here: http://net13.net/Cube/Cross/ Some of the images are broken for me but I just use the text scramble at the bottom of the page. It will give you scrambles that require from 1-8 moves to solve the cross optimally, and you can use "Input" in csTimer to copy the scramble and then see the optimal solution if you're unable to find it on your own. I think this is one of those areas where it's best not to push yourself... practice level 3 until you can just automatically do every one you come across before moving to level 4. If you find yourself struggling at a level, move back down one temporarily. The concepts build on what you learned from the previous level.

Finally, keep in mind that "move optimal" does not always equal "fastest", due to ergonomics. It's invaluable to be able to determine optimal solutions but sometimes there are faster ways with a couple more moves.