Older cubers discussions

[Selkie]

Though I learned Winter Variation, that was in February and March this year and neevr incorporated them in my solves (big mistake) and lost most of them on my couple of month break from cubing so have to realistically start again.

That said I don't know whether just stick to what I know. I do want to reach my goal of globally sub 15 at home and in comp but at nearly 47, my hands are not getting any younger at all and beginning to feel the race is on and any big changes will take too long to be of huge benefit. I am better investing time now on cross+pair planning on inspection which will give me a greater immediate benefit.

That or invest in the long term for my 50+ solving years

 

[JanW]

To me it seems WV isn't that valuable with CFOP. I remember reading about WV earlier and thinking it looked like an awful amount of work for something that rarely can be used. Now, when all my edges are oriented I look at it in a totally new way. Though I still wouldn't consider learning it as a full alg set.

There's a few cases I'm interested in. One that I already use is the one you set up with L' U2 R U R' U2 L U2. This one is very easy to recognize if it comes up in a solve, no matter which slot to the last F2L pair is going into. To solve it I think "U2 - bring up the pair adjacent to the corner I'm about to insert to - U2 - insertion - U2 - put back the pair I brought up". This works for all corners when I have the edge already oriented. And it saves me from an L-case OLL, which is nice. There are some other easy WV cases I will also try to learn.

Btw. Funny that we would post with Selkie about WV at exactly the same time. Did not see his post before posting.

 

[mafergut]

To me it seems WV isn't that valuable with CFOP. I remember reading about WV earlier and thinking it looked like an awful amount of work for something that rarely can be used. Now, when all my edges are oriented I look at it in a totally new way. Though I still wouldn't consider learning it as a full alg set.

There's a few cases I'm interested in. One that I already use is the one you set up with L' U2 R U R' U2 L U2. This one is very easy to recognize if it comes up in a solve, no matter which slot to the last F2L pair is going into. To solve it I think "U2 - bring up the pair adjacent to the corner I'm about to insert to - U2 - insertion - U2 - put back the pair I brought up". This works for all corners when I have the edge already oriented. And it saves me from an L-case OLL, which is nice. There are some other easy WV cases I will also try to learn.

Btw. Funny that we would post with Selkie about WV at exactly the same time. Did not see his post before posting.

I tend to think that most of WV can just save you 3-4 moves at best. For example, the case that you put here takes 8 moves. Meanwhile just inserting it + OLL (bowtie) is 11 moves:
R U' R' + F' r U R' U' r' F R
Funny that this gets you exactly the same PLL case but just a U2 away of the WV alg.
It is really worth it to learn this kind of algs to save just 3 moves?

 

[CLL Smooth]

You know what? I spent a couple of weeks with Roux and another week or so with ZZ like 1 year ago and I liked both methods a lot. I would certainly consider learning them more seriously but I just don't have the time so, in the end, I prioritized other events like big cubes, etc. But that is on my to do list, for sure.

And regarding WV, which also @Selkie Chris mentions above, I really have a hard time deciding what set of algs I should go for next. There are so many last slot sub-sets VLS, WV, SV, HLS,... not sure that I didn't make on of those up and there's also COLL... and summer vacation is too short so I better decide before I start vacation Any suggestions? And, no, don't tell me to learn summer variation in August and winter variation in Christmas

EDIT: 1st cube order arrived. In fact it's my 2nd order, from zcube, while the 1st one from Lightake with the yuxin 6x6 is still not with me. This includes the SS Aurora Mega, Qiyi skewb stickerless, LanLan 3x3x2 cuboid and LanLan Curvy Copter. Can't wait til weekend but this smells like unboxing video

I would learn COLL minus maybe S/AS. I'd also look at VHLS minus the split pair set.
I'm with Jan on WV. There are quite a few cases with nice recognition and a few with really nice algs. I only use a handful. ELL has some nice cases as well, particularly the ones that are also "line" cases.
Right now I'm going back to re-learning the T and U 2GLL sets, for the third time.

 

[mafergut]

I would learn COLL minus maybe S/AS. I'd also look at VHLS minus the split pair set.
I'm with Jan on WV. There are quite a few cases with nice recognition and a few with really nice algs. I only use a handful. ELL has some nice cases as well, particularly the ones that are also "line" cases.
Right now I'm going back to re-learning the T and U 2GLL sets, for the third time.

Will need to check those out, because tbh I have no idea what each of the LS sets is, nor ELL or 2GLL

 

[One Wheel]

Does cstimer save all times between sessions? Or should I export my sessions and save them somewhere else?

Yes, it saves them. I have ~850 4x4 solves dating back to late February or early March. I also have them in a spreadsheet because I started with a different timer and wanted to track my progress with Yau, but csTimer doesn't seem to have a problem with them. Altogether between all different puzzles and relays I have about 1600 times saved in csTimer.

 

[mafergut]

Yes, it saves them. I have ~850 4x4 solves dating back to late February or early March. I also have them in a spreadsheet because I started with a different timer and wanted to track my progress with Yau, but csTimer doesn't seem to have a problem with them. Altogether between all different puzzles and relays I have about 1600 times saved in csTimer.

I'd do a backup with the export function in case you clean your browser cookies, reinstall, etc. but yeah, I also have lots of solves in different sessions in csTimer.

 

[muchacho]

I hadn't done more than 50 solves with the Weilong GTS until today, I was waiting to receive some red stickers with lighter shades, but after seeing it's GuRoux's new main I've just put some dark green stickers instead of red and 35 solves later... 18.636 ao5 PB, maybe it was just luck, but the cube looks promising

Spoiler

22285 07-jul-2016 17:59:25 00:18.055 U' F2 L2 D L2 U2 B2 L2 D2 B2 U F' L' U B2 R2 L D' B' R2 L
22284 07-jul-2016 17:58:38 00:19.838 F2 L2 D' F2 D F2 U' F2 U2 R2 B2 R' D2 B' L' D' B R' F' D U2
22283 07-jul-2016 17:57:56 00:21.256 B2 F2 R2 U L2 D B2 D U2 L2 U2 B R D2 F2 D L B' L U2 L U'
22282 07-jul-2016 17:57:18 00:17.958 B2 R2 B2 U L2 D2 U2 F2 L2 D2 R2 B' D' F2 L' D2 R' B' U' L D2
22281 07-jul-2016 17:56:37 00:18.016 U' L2 D' B2 D' F2 L2 D B2 F2 L2 F' U R2 B' R F' R' U' F' R' U'

 

[mafergut]

Nice average, David @muchacho
I was just trying to do some 5x5 warmup solves before WC scrambles but I was slower solve after solve

 

[JanW]

I tend to think that most of WV can just save you 3-4 moves at best. For example, the case that you put here takes 8 moves. Meanwhile just inserting it + OLL (bowtie) is 11 moves:
R U' R' + F' r U R' U' r' F R
Funny that this gets you exactly the same PLL case but just a U2 away of the WV alg.
It is really worth it to learn this kind of algs to save just 3 moves?

I guess it depends... It also saves you some split second of recognition, assuming you can learn to recognize WV fast enough.

One that saves a lot more moves is the one you set up with R U2 R' U'. Do the insertion normally and you would immediately cancel the insertion as you start your sune. Saves even more moves if performed in a direction you wouldn't normally perform a sune, like setup L U2 L' U'. This case should also be quite easy to recognize and perform for all 4 corners. Headlights either to the right or to the left, depending on which side you are inserting to. I'll try to include this in my solving routine next.

 

[h2f]

I got 3rd ao100 sub20. I geuss I'm sub20 now...

 

[JanW]

Congrats h2f! That is awesome!

What is up with these csTimer scrambles? 3 consecutive scrambles:

Generated By csTimer on 2016-7-8
mean of 3: 32.78

Time List:
1. 26.99 L2 D2 L2 U L2 R2 F2 U' R2 D' F2 R' D R' B' U B' D2 R
2. 41.96 F2 U R2 F2 L2 B2 U2 B2 U R2 D L' U' B2 D2 B2 U' L2 B L
3. 29.38 R U2 F2 D R2 U L2 D' L2 U' L2 U' R U' L' F R' B2 R U F2

(I do a x2 rotation between my scramble and solving direction)

1st scramble, only moves that affect edge orientation are the two B' moves towards the end. With one U move in between, I know there will be exactly 2 bad edges on the cube, so during inspection I can stop looking after finding the first 2.

2nd scramble, only one move affecting edge orientation, the second last move. If I wanted, I could fix all bad edges blind without even inspecting the cube.

3rd scramble, again only one move affecting edge orientation, I can stop looking after finding 4 bad edges.

I've seen a lot of scrambles like this in my first 90 solves with csTimer. I know I should avoid tracking things like this during scrambling, but since I noticed it immediately when I started using it, it's been very difficult to avoid noticing it. I don't recall seeing any scrambles with so few F/B moves using my other timer.

Edit: Might just be the scramble length. Those scrambles are 19-21 moves while the scrambles from my old timer were all 25 moves. Longer scrambles make it statistically a lot less likely to see scrambles like that. Is it possible to adjust scramble length in csTimer?

 

[Jason Green]

Yes, it saves them. I have ~850 4x4 solves dating back to late February or early March. I also have them in a spreadsheet because I started with a different timer and wanted to track my progress with Yau, but csTimer doesn't seem to have a problem with them. Altogether between all different puzzles and relays I have about 1600 times saved in csTimer.

It's in your cache somewhere, not ok the server. If you clear your cache they will go away.

And yes I believe you can set the scramble length but not sure.

 

[Shaky Hands]

@JanW, maybe just don't look at the cube whilst scrambling it? I know I don't.

More cstimer fun (which I've only recently switched to as my browser is having problems with ctimer.co.uk which I've been using for quite a while now)...

I had a scramble earlier from cstimer where I was heading for a great time after managing to pull off a deliberate double X-cross and ended up screwing up an awkward OLL. Finished up on 52.93 seconds, which is one of my 5 highest times in the past 2500 solves. Did it again and got 18.98 seconds which would have been one of my lowest 5 times ever.

Scramble: F' B D2 L' U' L U L' D' R' U2 R' U2 B2 L2 D2 L F2

x2 // inspection
D R F2 R B' U' F' L' U L R' U2 R' // double X-cross
U' B U B' U' R' U' R // 3rd pair
B' U2 B // 4th pair
U2 R B' R' U' R U B U' R' // erm, messed this bit up, got it on 2nd attempt
U y F2 U M' U2 M U F2 // comedy U-perm, feel free to laugh

I reckon I was so happy with myself for pulling off the double X-cross that I had a brain leak!

 

[phreaker]

@JanW, maybe just don't look at the cube whilst scrambling it? I know I don't.

More cstimer fun (which I've only recently switched to as my browser is having problems with ctimer.co.uk which I've been using for quite a while now)...

I had a scramble earlier from cstimer where I was heading for a great time after managing to pull off a deliberate double X-cross and ended up screwing up an awkward OLL. Finished up on 52.93 seconds, which is one of my 5 highest times in the past 2500 solves. Did it again and got 18.98 seconds which would have been one of my lowest 5 times ever.

Scramble: F' B D2 L' U' L U L' D' R' U2 R' U2 B2 L2 D2 L F2

x2 // inspection
D R F2 R B' U' F' L' U L R' U2 R' // double X-cross
U' B U B' U' R' U' R // 3rd pair
B' U2 B // 4th pair
U2 R B' R' U' R U B U' R' // erm, messed this bit up, got it on 2nd attempt
U y F2 U M' U2 M U F2 // comedy U-perm, feel free to laugh

I reckon I was so happy with myself for pulling off the double X-cross that I had a brain leak!

That U perm hurts my head...

 

[phreaker]

Though I learned Winter Variation, that was in February and March this year and neevr incorporated them in my solves (big mistake) and lost most of them on my couple of month break from cubing so have to realistically start again.

That said I don't know whether just stick to what I know. I do want to reach my goal of globally sub 15 at home and in comp but at nearly 47, my hands are not getting any younger at all and beginning to feel the race is on and any big changes will take too long to be of huge benefit. I am better investing time now on cross+pair planning on inspection which will give me a greater immediate benefit.

That or invest in the long term for my 50+ solving years

Do you use ZZ/Petrus? If not how do you do the EO to make WV useful?

Also at 47... I'd hope you have plenty of finger speed left in you. Think about typing and piano players. They can go for quite a while .

 

[Jason Green]

It's in your cache somewhere, not ok the server. If you clear your cache they will go away.

And yes I believe you can set the scramble length but not sure.

Although I can't see how to set the length for the WCA puzzles.

 

[JanW]

@Shaky Hands, I never look at the cube while scrambling. There's no need to look at it to register those things I mentioned. I'd need to not think about what I'm doing while scrambling, which is easier said than done. Especially now when I became aware of and got annoyed by this issue, it's very hard not to notice if I perform the first half of the scramble and there are no F/F' or B/B' moves. Once I notice that, it's even harder to not get a count of how many there are in the second half of the scramble.

@Jason Green, I can't find such a setting either. I think it's a random state scrambler, which would make it harder to adjust exact scramble length.

 

[h2f]

@JanW, thanks. To set scramble lenght: left bracket change from WCA to 3x3x3, right: old style. Next type the scramble length though it's set to 25. Strange thing with your scrambles. I count sometimes F and B moves and I never noticed the things you wrote.

@Shaky Hands - this U perm hurts.

 

[JanW]

Thanks @h2f! This works. I'll use these settings for my ZZ solves.

Maybe it was just a statistical anomaly that I saw so many scrambles like this when I first started using the app. If the scramble was a series of 20 random moves, the probability of having only one F/F'/B/B' move is about 4.4%. It happened way more often than that in my first 100 solves, but sample size is far too small to make any conclusions. With 25 move scrambles, the probability goes down from 4.4% to 1.5%, which hopefully makes it rare enough that I stop thinking about this whole issue and won't notice it when it happens. I think this was the case with the other timer I used.