Older cubers discussions

[Selkie]

Another huge vote for intuitive here. I learnt intuitive from Badmephisto's videos and much later replaced some bad cases with learnt algorithms. There are many benefits to learning intuitive. Many have already been mentioned but a big one for me is the fact that if you are solving FR slot with a difficult case and BR is not solved, changes there is a faster option. I frequently use empty slots to help bad cases. There have been two sets of algorithms I have wanted to create for a while. Yes I know saying algorithm sets is an oxymoron in this case but:-

• FR cases where BR is open
• R'FRF' allternaties for all cases that require a rotation or F moves

Really must get working on some of these cubing projects

 

[SenorJuan]

I could probably save you the bother Chris, I've worked em all out, it was about 12 yrs ago, so my old notes are kind of scruffy, no desktop publishing here, a biro and some 'colouring in' with pencil. Several pages of them.

 

[muchacho]

So just yesterday I was looking for ways to insert the last pair to try to affect edges/corners (I'm far far away from being able to use any of that on a speed solve but I thought I might try in slow solves or FMC), maybe you guys can help me there. So for a R' F R F' setup I can do U' F' U F or U2 F' U2 F (or Rw U Rw' with Roux), any more I may try?

---

Best times after 30 solves trying a new color scheme (on a stickerless cube):
Single: 19.502
Ao5: 24.406
Ao12: 27.765

I think it's good enough, and at least on the Weilong and Thunderclap the colors are almost the same.

---

4x4 ao5 PB: 2:16.316

 

[SenorJuan]

There's
U' F' L' U L F
U' R B U B' R'
U' F R' F' R2 U' R'
U' M' F' U F M
for starters

 

[muchacho]

That looks more than a start, thanks!

 

[Selkie]

@SenorJuan - I would be very interested in seeing those if you ever get the opportunity of scanning them

@muchacho - I now know winter variation but that is for corners on last slot, havent incorporated them into my speed solves yet though.

--------

A couple of dodecahedron solves on film today. Firstly was trying to get a sub 2:50 ao5 of megaminx on film. Failed miserably but did get this PB on film which beat my last PB by over 5 seconds. Lost a lot of time as well trying to figure Y-perm would leave me a 3 corner PLL!

Also a 25.x minute gigaminx solve at 2x speed

 

[SenorJuan]

OK, Chris, I'll see what I can do.

Senor Muchacho, here's a few more FMC type insertions
U2 F R' F' R F' U2 F
U2 R' F R F' F' U2 F
U' F' U' F U then proceed as before
U2 F' U F then proceed as before

 

[Jason Green]

@SenorJuan I thought it was interesting you said intuitive was a bit of a misnomer. To me that's exactly what it was. I would just think about what I need to do and "intuitively" put the pieces together.

... Or so I thought until I just looked up the definition of intuitive. Now I agree it's a misnomer. By definition it means without reasoning. I was thinking of it more as without teaching. Which is mentioned in the definition further down.

 

[mark49152]

I just looked up the definition of intuitive. Now I agree it's a misnomer. By definition it means without reasoning. I was thinking of it more as without teaching. Which is mentioned in the definition further down.

I agree it's a misnomer. What I think it means in the context of cubing is "figuring it out for yourself". That doesn't necessarily mean doing so with no inputs though. Finding a cool F2L trick online and then studying it to understand how it works and maybe adapting it to different cases also qualifies IMHO.

 

[h2f]

Going back to stickerless cubes - my MFG skewb will come tomorrow. I wonder if I shall do unboxing - I've never done it before.

 

[mafergut]

Going back to stickerless cubes - my MFG skewb will come tomorrow. I wonder if I shall do unboxing - I've never done it before.

Please... Do... It... I don't know when but I'll do a deferred unboxing of my CB G4, BoChuang, Aofu GT and Dayan Mega. Probably when I get my next order. I got un YuQiLin keyring/mini 3x3 and a YJ Axis 3x3 shapemod. I'm waiting for the WeiPo to be available to get one and a Wittwo Type C v1 2x2 and maybe also a Yuxin 5x5 stickerless If you like your stickerless QiYi Skewb I might get one as well. Skewb and SQ-1 are the only WCA puzzles I only have one of each (well, and the 7x7).

 

[SenorJuan]

Re: the 'intuition'..I didn't want to be hampered with a limited repertoire of sub-algorithms from amateurish intuition, so went to the effort of working them all out by brute force, though I don't actively use them all, some get tried when doing FMC.
I've just looked at my notes:
24 ways of moving a corner up to the top layer to make a pair (typically 4 ways for each of the 6 combinations of edge & corner orientation), these all known for the diagonally opposite corner location, to remove/reduce cube rotations.
24 ways of moving an edge from the middle E layer up to the top layer to make a pair, again these are known in duplicate for the opposite edge position.
Plus the usual shuffles for when they're both on the top layer, though sometimes there are a few empty-slot tricks, like
F' U F2 R U2 R' F' and its' mirror
which is probably one of the ones Chris (Selkie) was talking about, empty adjacent slot.

 

[Jason Green]

Sorry to be boring, but this talk about intuition and it's meaning is interesting to me. For me the intuitive stage meant without any input for how to pair the cases. I watched a video and learned the opposite color up, same color up, and already paired cases so I did not consider that intuitive. But once I knew that I had no more inputs for a while. Although I did use reasoning. Once I started looking up cool F2L tricks I did not consider it intuitive.

At least in America we use that meaning for software being intuitive also. We say that meaning it's easy to figure out with no training, but not too imply no reasoning. At least not to me. It's more of an interest in language at this point.

 

[Shaky Hands]

Congrats, and no skips, nice tps!

New 4x4 ao5 PB: 2:19.681 (was 2:29.852)

Thanks. Also, well done yourself.

Nice!! I figured you did go for the free pair in inspection because you did x2 y2. But you did not.. You broke the pair.. Ouuuch. LOL, But I have to admit, a fast and short cross beats any complicated x-cross. Also, the d2 in the 3rd and 4th pair are wicket! Nice skills there. But since you did an y2 at the beginning of 4th F2L you could just have taken the pair out, brake them apart and slot them in less moves. I think you could be way faster if you where a tad bit more efficient. (My problem too). Good job none the less!

Thanks Marcel. I'm not great at X-Cross, tends to be the result of accident when it happens. I'm working on it as well as all-over efficiency.

Move efficiency looked OK, but I think reducing y2 rotations would be an easy improvement, including those d2s, which are kind of like rotations in that you still need a sort of regrip.

Example: on fourth pair you do a y2 to take the stuck pair out of FR, then a d2 before inserting it - but you could just take the pair out of BL and insert it with no rotations at all.

A good aim for F2L is to have no more than one or two y/y' rotations in total, and never any y2s.

For first pair I would have done U2 L' U L2 U' L' and avoid the more awkward F/B moves.

For LL there's no need to rotate at all because you can just use U moves to align the top layer.

Thanks Mark. I've done some solves since this and noticed how many d2's I do in solving. Will look to make some improvements here. With LL I tend to put the cube into a particular state before executing PLL (and sometimes OLL too) before performing an alg as it's a part of my pattern recognition, but yes, this is often unnecessary and I can make some improvements here too.

@Jason Green, Great news about the cube club, seems to have been a great success from the start!

@Shaky Hands , great single there mate

@ London Open - Still trying to arrange transport for the weekend with my VW bus still off the road and a possibility I will only be there for the Sunday but will keep you posted.

Thanks. Hope you can make the Saturday too, otherwise everyone will assume you've fallen out of love with 4x4 after missing it 2 comps in a row.

 

[Lid]

Late night session .... 4x4 a12 PB, first with the CB: 1:03.482 (~2.5s better than last PB)
(57.213), (1:14.940[op]), 1:01.894[op], 1:02.742[p], 58.223, 1:01.083, 1:05.309[op], 1:01.311, 1:14.330[op], 58.933, 1:02.358, 1:08.640[o]

OH, a5 PB: 21.353, minor improvment, (a12 ended at 23.98 (my 2nd sub24 a12))
19.445, (26.694), (18.859), 22.978, 21.635 ; both sub20 was fullstep.



Edit: Did some Sq-1 also, got another sub10!

12. 9.786 (4, 0) / (3, -3) / (-4, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -4) / (3, -3) / (-3, -3) / (6, 0)
/1,-3/-3,-3/ || CS+CO+EO (Kite/Kite) LOL
2,-3/-3,0/3,3/0,-3/ || CP (JJ)
-2,0/3,0/-1,-1/-2,1/2,3 || EP (adj/adj)

 

[h2f]

I use Hoya on 6x6 and it works pretty well for me: ao12 6:59.32. I'm closer to my best times I've made 2 years ago.

 

[mafergut]

@Lid: Stefan, you're so fast. Tell me your secret. 4x4 is okay, Chris is also around those times and I can imagine myself getting close to there in some time with practice but... OH?!? 21.xx Ao5 and sub-20 full step??? I can't get my mind around that, at least at my age (46), you were a bit younger if I remember correctly but... anyway, it's really impressive. My fingers can't move that fast even if I threaten them

Also, I couldn't resist, WeiPo, Wittwo v1... and yuxin 5x5 stickerless on their way to my doorstep. The Qiyi Skewb will wait until I have your feedback, Grzegorz @h2f

 

[h2f]

@mafergut, David I'm just downloading unboxing. It'll take some time I have a slow internet connection in home but I like it. I'm doing ao100 right now to see how it works.

It's painfull feeling for me to hear my English. I have a little opportunity to speak English, writing is much easier for me. I havent filmed for a long time and in the first part I'm a little out of focus. I'll prepare a review soon. This is my first unboxing ever.

Edit: after almost 100 solves I rolled my times to sub-12. It's much better than Moyu but it needs to get used to - turns in different way. Fast but easy to controll.

 

[MarcelP]

Ok, I had a great average on film (although times where all over the place). I am trying to work a bit on TPS.. Often it results in shitty times. But every now and then...

Spoiler

31. 15.56 F L2 R2 F' U2 F' L2 F' R2 B2 R2 U R2 F D L U L2 B2 U2 R2
32. 10.13 B2 F2 L2 D R2 B2 U' F2 U R2 D2 L' F L2 F2 R D U B R2 F
33. 19.60 B2 R B2 R2 D2 B2 R B2 R U2 F2 U' R' F' L2 B2 D2 U2 L2 U'
34. 15.58 D2 L2 R2 F2 U' L2 U L2 F2 U B2 R' B D' F' L D2 L2 D2 L U
35. 21.28 R2 D' F2 D L2 R2 U R2 D2 L2 D L' U' R' D F' D F L2 R2 D

B2 F2 L2 D R2 B2 U' F2 U R2 D2 L' F L2 F2 R D U B R2 F
y // inspection
L2 R U' R' U y' R' U' R // X-CROSS (10)
y U' L' U L //2ND (5)
y U' U' R U' U' R' y U R U2 R' U R U' R' //3RD (14)
y' U R U' U' R' U2 R U' U' R' U R U' R' //4TH (15)
U2 R U R' U' R' F R F' U //OLL (10) and I recognize the PLL skip since blocks are made on the two sided

53 moves in 10.13 = 5.2 TPS

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=B2_F2_L2_D_R2_B2_U-_F2_U_R2_D2_L-_F_L2_F2_R_D_U_B_R2_F&alg=y_//_inspection L2_R_U-_R-_U_y-_R-_U-_R_//_X-CROSS_(10) y_U-_L-_U_L_//2ND_(5) y_U-_U-_R_U-_U-_R-_y_U_R_U2_R-_U_R_U-_R-_//3RD__(14) y-_U_R_U-_U-_R-_U2_R_U-_U-_R-_U_R_U-_R-_//4TH__(15) U2_R_U_R-_U-_R-_F_R_F-_U_//OLL_(10)_and_I_recognize_the_PLL_skip_since_blocks_are_made_on_the_two_sided

 

[h2f]

Wow. Almost 5 tps.