Older cubers discussions

[mafergut]

Megaminx race to sub-5 ao12, PBs:
Single: 4:18
Ao5: 4:52
Ao12: 5:13

So... Sunny days = good times

Mo6 today was 4:54, so now depending at what time you make your attempts I may still have an opportunity tomorrow, if so I would still need a sunny day, be fully focused and some luck.

If we make it the same day it's a draw, right?

Wow! That beats my PB single!!! I'm not sure when I will be able to do more solves, maybe not until Thursday but it's fair, if we make it the same day it's a draw. But now that you are sub-me (at least in single) I will not restrict to 5-6 solves a week

By the way, I could insert a comm into my FMC solve but, sadly it does not cancel any moves. Anyway it improves the solution by 1 move, as it changes a 9 move A-perm by an 8-move pure comm. I'm happy! I don't have time to keep searching for insertion points now but I'll try to do it later or tomorrow.

 

[newtonbase]

Nice one, I'm jealous!

Not for long I'll bet. I was on for an AO5 PB too. Low 2 mins would have done it but I messed up parity and went well over 3 mins.

 

[h2f]

Very nice, Mark!

 

[Selkie]

I just got a new Personal Best with my first sub-20 solve. It's probably got my best Ao12 and Ao25 in there too.]

Congratulations, doesn't it feel great! I agree with others that with continued practice your first sub 20 average is actually not that far away

I've watched nothing. I just try to find one or two moves corner and predict how it affects on the others which arent in their spot. I almost always start with one or 2 corners solved. If you want I may try to make a walkthrough few solves but I'm not advanced solver just noob.

Great solve under comp pressure :tu

1:51.58 4x4 PB single. Lost over a second missing the timer.

I hate it when that happens. The anticipation of a good time does that. I ruined many a good solve doing just that. Congratulations on the pb :tu

..........

Didn't get a chance to cube on either flight today as the plane was packed tight and not enough elbow room However feel like I am coming down with a cold and couldn't sleep despite now being up 22 hours I have been doing some 5x5 now and sub 2:19 for 25 solves. Looking promising for PB single and average in exeter in April but I still get the odd solve over 2:30 (average cut), always seems to be when I forget to count how many tredges I have solved so far, odd!

 

[Jason Green]

Ok, I have a noob question. Since I don't even have a 5x5 yet I have not tried to learn it. A co-worker moved into a cube (haha) near mine and we got talking about cubes because of my cube lanyard I got at my first contest. She loves cubes, and she solves them but never got into speed solving (I'll try to correct that). Anyway, she is going to bring in her 5x5 sometime, so I'd like to be able to solve it.

My question is, should I be able to muddle my way through most of it given I know Hoya for 4x4? I figure I would have to look up the OLL parity, and I guess there is no PLL parity (that's cool I didn't even know that!). I'm not sure how different the edge building is. I watched a video or two but haven't found a good one.

...Oh I just now found crazy bad cuber's edge pairing tutorial, it might be good I like most of his!

Edit: I also saw the last edge parity is different. I think I could use hoya and free slice to work through it... maybe.

 

[MarcelP]

Now I get it: "if there are only 3 corners left to solve, I can go through my whole skeleton move by move and solve them when the corresponding commutator only requires 8 moves". So you basically insert the commutator in the middle of your solve, whenever the pieces are in a position to do it with a pure 8-move comm and, if possible, cancelling as many moves as you can.

What I did not realize is that I could end up with an entire cube solved but just 3 corners.

Yay! You have got it. What you should try to do from the first few moves is orient edges as much as possible while making the blocks. That way you have a higher chance of ending up with a low move count skeleton leaving only 3,4 or 5 corners. It has been a long while since I did FMC. I might have to start doing the weekly competition FMC again just to stay practiced. Btw, if you have a nice skeleton there are programs as insertion finder (http://mf.qiyuuu.com/) to find the optimal insertion for you. Of course in competition this is illegal, but it is very handy while learning FMC. I wrote an insertion finder in Java a while ago. It is also finds the optimal insertions.

 

[mark49152]

Congrats on the sub-20 Andy, and on the 4x4 Mark!

My question is, should I be able to muddle my way through most of it given I know Hoya for 4x4? I figure I would have to look up the OLL parity, and I guess there is no PLL parity (that's cool I didn't even know that!). I'm not sure how different the edge building is. I watched a video or two but haven't found a good one.

Pretty much yes. You'll need to modify your OLL parity - that might be as simple as using the same alg as 4x4 but turning 3 layers instead of 2 for one of the moves. Depends what alg you use. Centres can be figured out intuitively. Cross edges are easy enough to figure out Hoya style. For pairing the other edges, I like to start with a wing on its own then search for the midge that goes with it and continue like that to pair tredges up half at a time (called chain pairing, or AvG) - it's not quite as efficient as freeslice but look ahead is easier and it's very similar to 4x4 pairing so easy to pick up. Good luck!

 

[mafergut]

Yay! You have got it. What you should try to do from the first few moves is orient edges as much as possible while making the blocks. That way you have a higher chance of ending up with a low move count skeleton leaving only 3,4 or 5 corners. It has been a long while since I did FMC. I might have to start doing the weekly competition FMC again just to stay practiced. Btw, if you have a nice skeleton there are programs as insertion finder (http://mf.qiyuuu.com/) to find the optimal insertion for you. Of course in competition this is illegal, but it is very handy while learning FMC. I wrote an insertion finder in Java a while ago. It is also finds the optimal insertions.

Thanks a lot for your feedback and the link. That insertion finder found one I couldn't, which canceled 2 moves, just but altering the order of L R' in my skeleton to R' L and inserting the 3-corner cycle in the middle of those. That was something I didn't even realize was possible yesterday. So I've learned a lot Will try to keep competing in FMC in future weeks. Of course I will only use the insertion finder after I present my final solution.

 

[h2f]

cstimer finds insertions as well and I use it. Theres an option in tools - insertion finder.

 

[h2f]

I think yes it does but it translates it to no-rotation sceleton. The very first thing you can learn is to stop rotate cube - it makes finding insertions much easier. I did only rotation in the beginning when I started FMC. Now - I do no rotation - I scramble in the orientation I solve.

 

[mafergut]

I think yes it does but it translates it to no-rotation sceleton. The very first thing you can learn is to stop rotate cube - it makes finding insertions much easier. I did only rotation in the beginning when I started FMC. Now - I do no rotation - I scramble in the orientation I solve.

I just rotated at the beginning to orient the cube with "cross on bottom". It is really difficult for me to build an x-cross on top, back or one side. I suppose I just need to get used to it? Anyway it does not seem to be working for me. I just copied the scramble and skeleton, pressed submit and nothing happens.

 

[h2f]

If you solve on white just scramble with white on bottom. Are you sure the skeleton is ok? Have you checked in alg.cubing.net?

 

[newtonbase]

Ok, I have a noob question. Since I don't even have a 5x5 yet I have not tried to learn it. A co-worker moved into a cube (haha) near mine and we got talking about cubes because of my cube lanyard I got at my first contest. She loves cubes, and she solves them but never got into speed solving (I'll try to correct that). Anyway, she is going to bring in her 5x5 sometime, so I'd like to be able to solve it.

My question is, should I be able to muddle my way through most of it given I know Hoya for 4x4? I figure I would have to look up the OLL parity, and I guess there is no PLL parity (that's cool I didn't even know that!). I'm not sure how different the edge building is. I watched a video or two but haven't found a good one.

...Oh I just now found crazy bad cuber's edge pairing tutorial, it might be good I like most of his!

Edit: I also saw the last edge parity is different. I think I could use hoya and free slice to work through it... maybe.

Crazybadcuber has a good centres video too and cyoubx has a nice 5x5 series that was mentioned up thread.

For parity, with the edge at UF, I use the exact same alg as on 4x4
Rw' U2 Lw F2 Lw' F2 Rw2 U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 F2 Rw2 F2
The jump from 4x4 to 5x5 is far smaller than the jump from 3x3 to 4x4.
Also, buy a Yuxin.

I ordered from Champion's Cube Store and from Lightake on the same night 12 days ago. Lightake shipped yesterday. The Champion's Cube Store order, with free delivery, just arrived.

 

[mafergut]

If you solve on white just scramble with white on bottom. Are you sure the skeleton is ok? Have you checked in alg.cubing.net?

I think I did not explain myself well. I can be color neutral and, I'da say, being color neutral is a must for FMC where you absolutely need to find the best blocks there are. For speedsolving I'm still slower with other than white/yellow but I can perfectly get the chance the scramble gives and use any color cross.

The reason I rotate is to just put the chosen cross color on bottom. If I do what you suggest and scramble with white on bottom instead of top then the good block will end up being in the opposite colour and I will have to rotate anyway.

Let's say I scramble in WCA orientation and I see a good x-cross on green. I start with x' and work from there. If, instead, I scramble the cube with green bottom, white front, blue on top then the good x-cross will be on white and I will want to do an x' anyway to put white on bottom.

And yes, I checked my skeleton like a dozen times yesterday and the page that Marcel recommended actually found some insertions with nice move cancellations. I even tried with the converted skeleton without rotations given by this page as part of the output and still nothing happens.

 

[muchacho]

Megaminx race to sub 5 ao12:
Ao12: 5:00.58

Ouch, so close

 

[h2f]

Strange. Cstimer always worked well for me. Even if I add x or y o z in the beginning. And I meant - dont do other roatations except the first in preinspection. CN is good skill but you dont have to be CN to be good at FMC.

Can you put a scarmble and your solution here, I try to figure out whats wrong with cstimer?

 

[mafergut]

Megaminx race to sub 5 ao12:
Ao12: 5:00.58

Ouch, so close

Can't you roll it? It looks like in the end I will lose, unless I can get a sub-5 Ao12 this afternoon, which I doubt.

Strange. Cstimer always worked well for me. Even if I add x or y o z in the beginning. And I meant - dont do other roatations except the first in preinspection. CN is good skill but you dont have to be CN to be good at FMC.

Can you put a scarmble and your solution here, I try to figure out whats wrong with cstimer?

Scramble: F2 L2 B2 R2 D2 B' R2 D2 B' D2 L' D' B' D' U' R B' U2 L'

Skeleton: x2 y' R' U F' U F' U2 L R' B' U B' R' U R' U R' U2 R U B' U2 B U' F' U' F U F' U2 F y R U R' U' R' F R F'

Yeah, that's what I was meaning, that I didn't do any other rotations after the initial one. Well, in fact I did another one right before OLL just to be able to write down the OLL without much thinking but I could have avoided / transformed that (just changing Rs to Bs and Fs to Rs).

 

[Selkie]

@Jason

Some great recommendations from others there. Just to add another source to the mix, when I started solving big cubes I learned a lot of algs from http://www.kungfoomanchu.com/ as I was able to print out the colour PDFs to take around with me. Consequently most of my parity algs come from those

Re: FMC

I agree you definitely need to solve FMC colour neutral. I do but am blue cross on 3x3 so the skill doesn't necessarily need to transfer. Really must practice as I am signed up for FMC in April and my comp PB was set before I actually learned some FMC techniques. Its a lovely event and one where being older has no bearing. In fact the more experience the better. With a PB of 25 in weekly comp a few years ago I must get back to it. Its just an event where it is harder to find a solid hour to devote.

..........

Very pleased with a Square-1 session I just had with

Average of 12: 31.08 - Over 4 seconds off old PB
Average of 5: 28.01 - First ever sub 30 average (Solves 2 - 6 Below)

Yes, a good average is luck with Square-1 relying on good cube shape scrambles but pleased all the same and do actually believe I might be sub 40 globally on Square-1 now

Scrambles and times in spoiler:-

Spoiler

1. 37.68 (3, 2) / (4, -5) / (3, -3) / (0, -3) / (5, -4) / (-3, -2) / (6, 0) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -3) / (-4, 0) / (-2, 0) /
2. 27.23 (-5, 0) / (-4, 5) / (4, -5) / (6, 0) / (-3, -1) / (3, 0) / (2, -5) / (2, -2) / (-4, 0) / (4, 0) / (6, -4) / (-1, 0) /
3. 27.65 (-5, 0) / (2, 2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (1, -3) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (1, 0) / (0, -2) / (-2, -1) / (4, -5) /
4. 33.11 (-5, 0) / (2, -1) / (-3, 0) / (6, -3) / (-2, -2) / (3, 0) / (0, -4) / (-3, -3) / (5, 0) / (6, -2) / (0, -4) / (2, 0) / (0, -2)
5. (21.82) (-2, 0) / (0, 6) / (-3, 0) / (-4, -1) / (-5, -5) / (0, -3) / (5, 0) / (0, -3) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (-2, -2)
6. 29.14 (0, -4) / (1, -2) / (-3, 0) / (0, -3) / (-4, -4) / (1, -2) / (0, -1) / (-3, 0) / (0, -2) / (0, -4) / (3, -2) / (-4, 0) / (6, -4)
7. 29.85 (-3, 2) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (1, -2) / (0, -3) / (-4, 0) / (0, -3) / (4, -1) / (-2, 0) / (0, -4) / (0, -3) / (0, -2) / (-2, 0)
8. 34.94 (0, 2) / (0, 3) / (4, -5) / (0, -3) / (3, 0) / (3, -3) / (-3, -4) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (-4, 0) / (1, 0) / (-2, 0) /
9. 31.44 (-2, 0) / (2, -1) / (3, 0) / (4, -2) / (5, -1) / (-5, 0) / (-3, 0) / (-1, 0) / (0, -2) / (2, -3) / (-4, -5) / (0, -2) /
10. 33.44 (4, 0) / (2, -4) / (3, 0) / (-3, 0) / (4, -5) / (3, 0) / (0, -4) / (-3, -3) / (0, -3) / (-3, -1) / (-4, 0) / (2, 0) / (-4, 0) /
11. (51.50) (-5, 0) / (-4, -4) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-5, -2) / (-3, -4) / (3, 0) / (-4, 0) / (-5, 0) / (2, 0) / (-1, 0) / (0, -3)
12. 26.36 (0, 5) / (-2, 4) / (6, 0) / (0, -3) / (-3, 0) / (-1, -4) / (-2, 0) / (-3, -3) / (-3, -2) / (0, -4) / (3, -2) / (0, -5) /

 

[muchacho]

Can't you roll it? It looks like in the end I will lose, unless I can get a sub-5 Ao12 this afternoon, which I doubt.

Apart from the DNF the mo5 was 5:09, maybe tomorrow I can get a sub 5 ao12, but just maybe, yesterday's mo6 was 4:54 and I failed today...


PB ao5 in 3x3: 20.74 (it was 21.06 from Feb 20)

 

[h2f]

Scramble: F2 L2 B2 R2 D2 B' R2 D2 B' D2 L' D' B' D' U' R B' U2 L'

Skeleton: x2 y' R' U F' U F' U2 L R' B' U B' R' U R' U R' U2 R U B' U2 B U' F' U' F U F' U2 F y R U R' U' R' F R F'

Yeah, that's what I was meaning, that I didn't do any other rotations after the initial one. Well, in fact I did another one right before OLL just to be able to write down the OLL without much thinking but I could have avoided / transformed that (just changing Rs to Bs and Fs to Rs).

This is what i got:

Spoiler

1 corner 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed

B' D L' D L' D2 B' [@1] F R' D R' B' D B' D B' D2 B D R' D2 R D' L' D' L D L' D2 L R D R' D' R' B R B'
Insert at @1: B U2 B' D' B U2 B' D
Fewest moves: 44. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: B' D L' D L' D2 U2 B' D' B U2 B' D F R' D R' B' D B' D B' D2 B D R' D2 R D' L' D' L D L' D2 L R D R' D' R' B R B'

B' D L' D L' D2 [@1] F B' R' D R' B' D B' D B' D2 B D R' D2 R D' L' D' L D L' D2 L R D R' D' R' B R B'
Insert at @1: U2 B' D' B U2 B' D B
Fewest moves: 44. 2 moves cancelled
The final solution: B' D L' D L' D2 U2 B' D' B U2 B' D F R' D R' B' D B' D B' D2 B D R' D2 R D' L' D' L D L' D2 L R D R' D' R' B R B'

Runtime: 5.321 milliseconds