Older cubers discussions

Well done everyone on your recent successes.

Jason: Hopefully you'll be sub-30 in a few weeks / months. It all depends on how much practice you put in. :)
Rastinha: Do you know 4LLL algs yet? It's time to learn them as well as learning proper F2L (corner/edge pairs) if you are currently using beginner method (corners then edges)
Mark: 4BLD success at your next competition plz. :)
 
I suppose I should introduce myself. I'm sure I qualify as old, now my age starts with a 5. I've been speedcubing since 1980, when my entire school was obsessed with the cube, and I eventually caught the bug after being lent one (with crib sheet) for a week. What do you want for Christmas? A Rubik's Cube! I was competent enough at it, though didn't get my first sub-30 solve until 1985 while at college. Thanks to course-mate Chris F. for inspiring me - he could often sub-30 with a corners-first method.
I just maintained my basic skills enough to entertain workmates, and made no more progress until I got hold of a copy of "Rubik's Cubic Compendium" in the early 90's. That gave me some last-layer strategies that got me the odd low-20's solves.
When I discovered speedcubing.com in about 2001 I liked the challenge of "Fridrich F2L", even though I was a pretty good LBL/keyhole solver.
I struggled with it, to be honest.
The Hardwick-Makky one-handed contest inspired me to learn OH in 2003. I liked the fact that there was almost no guides/documentation/etc to OH solving, I had to struggle to work out 'how' from scratch. Even which hand to use. But I was eventually able to show off regular sub-60 solves to a friend (who's a lapsed 1980's cuber). He's left-handed, and still doesn't get why a total 'righty' like me would choose to do something as complex as cube-solving, with my left hand....
In 2009 I bought a Sheng-En Type F. Even though it couldn't 'reverse cut' corners, I persevered with it, and re-learned proper Cross/F2L, eventually scoring my first sub-20 2H solve, and sub-40 OH.
I'm currently using a Zhanchi. I rarely 2H solve now, I'm plain clumsy. But I'm enthusiastic about OH, and I'm closing in on a sub-20.

I live in the same town as Mr. Logiqx, it seems. Hello Mike! I hope to attend the UK Champs to watch, not sure about competing, though....
 
I suppose I should introduce myself.
...
I live in the same town as Mr. Logiqx, it seems. Hello Mike! I hope to attend the UK Champs to watch, not sure about competing, though....

Cool history and interesting to hear you live in the same town as me.

Maybe you should consider registering for the UKC... I'm sure you'd find it a lot of fun!
 
Welcome SenorJuan, you sound like a cubing veteran. You should definitely compete! Nice to see a few new people on this thread, I'm glad it was moved/renamed.

Tried another 4BLD before work - success in 26:53. Execution was about 9 minutes. It's actually not that difficult, just a few extra algs and an awful lot to remember. For example every piece type (centres, wings, corners) can have parity independently. Also it's rather fiddly, with lots of slice moves, and requires a great deal of care and concentration not to make mistakes. Verdict: I like it, and will give it a shot at my next comp, but will take it steady and aim for accuracy not speed :D
 
Mark, what Method are you using for centers? (I suppose r2 and OP for wings and corners). I'm sticking with center conmutators for both 4BLD and 5BLD but I feel my execution is slower because of that. I think Comms has more potential, but you need to practice it a lot to really take advantage of it.

Senor Juan and others, welcome!

h2f, you need to get out of Poland to get some averages on your profile, I whined about spanish cutoffs until I saw polish ones.
 
Mark, what Method are you using for centers? (I suppose r2 and OP for wings and corners).
I'm using U2/r2/OP and solving in that order.

For centres I pick the orientation with most solved pieces overall, but try to avoid solved pieces in U and maximize solved pieces in D if possible. Then when selecting a target on each side I try to leave the U pieces until last. Generally I can avoid cycle breaks that way, and thinking carefully about tracing a path to do that also helps me avoid mistakes like picking the same target twice. In most cases centres seem to need about 7-8 letter pairs.

For corners I have started learning some easy commutators and corner twists to speed up my 3BLD, but for 4BLD I'm taking no risks and doing pure vanilla OP.
 
h2f, you need to get out of Poland to get some averages on your profile, I whined about spanish cutoffs until I saw polish ones.

Yes, you're right, they are very high. I can't do ao5 in 4x4 altough I'm 1:20.

I'm using U2/r2/OP and solving in that order.

For centres I pick the orientation with most solved pieces overall, but try to avoid solved pieces in U and maximize solved pieces in D if possible. Then when selecting a target on each side I try to leave the U pieces until last. Generally I can avoid cycle breaks that way, and thinking carefully about tracing a path to do that also helps me avoid mistakes like picking the same target twice. In most cases centres seem to need about 7-8 letter pairs.

For corners I have started learning some easy commutators and corner twists to speed up my 3BLD, but for 4BLD I'm taking no risks and doing pure vanilla OP.

Centers with comms are much easier - it's obvious. Have you read Ollie's thread about it? There are only few cases for comms. Others are setups + the case you know.
Grzegorz Jałocha told me - and he says the same in his polish tutorial - the he did centers always with the same rule: starting from the same point on each side and adding pieces clockwise. If the piece is correct he was starting from another etc. Of course D and U centers are easier with comms but for me, when I was doing it with U2, D centers were pain in ass. U centers were much easier - it was almost the same alg for Ubl and Ufr. But it's my personal preference. My only advice is: practice. After some time your memo will shorten.

About corners with OP in 4bld. I like the idea doing corners in the beginning of the solve. But the problem is that y-perm is not center safe and rotates centers. I was always trying to make corners with the number y-perms divisible by 4. When you know few comms it is easier to do it. For example if there are 6 targets I do 4 with y-perm and 2 with comm. Now I do them all with comms and I always start solving corners first.
 
Centers with comms are much easier - it's obvious. Have you read Ollie's thread about it? There are only few cases for comms. Others are setups + the case you know.
Yes I've seen that thread but didn't work through the examples, and haven't really got my head around comms yet. I followed Noah's tutorial. U2 seems a good beginners' method because it follows the same principles as r2/OP. It didn't take long to pick it up.

Grzegorz Jałocha told me - and he says the same in his polish tutorial - the he did centers always with the same rule: starting from the same point on each side and adding pieces clockwise. If the piece is correct he was starting from another etc.
Noah says the same, and that's what I tried at first, but I find it harder to remember where I am on a clockwise sequence than I do to think through a tiling strategy (although maybe it's slower). For example, let's take the R face, and suppose it has centres R, B, U, L (face letters, not sticker letters). Now on my B face let's suppose there are two U pieces. I have an R piece in the buffer to solve, but which target to shoot to? Well, i would replace the U piece last, because I want to avoid a cycle break. I would also defer replacing the B piece, because that will speed up the dislodging of the U pieces from the B face. So I would fill the R positions in order L, B, U.

Of course D and U centers are easier with comms but for me, when I was doing it with U2, D centers were pain in ass. U centers were much easier - it was almost the same alg for Ubl and Ufr. But it's my personal preference.
Noah's D alg is longish but the same for all four pieces, with setup, so that's easy enough. The A/C alg seems just as bad to me, but I have been wondering, why not just rotate the U face to move a different sticker into the buffer rather than doing a swap, and track the cumulative rotations? Is that what is meant by a "floating buffer"?

My only advice is: practice. After some time your memo will shorten.
Well yeah, my success today was 18min memo and 9min execution. On 3BLD I'm still spending 1.5-2min on memo. So to get faster, that is clearly my main weakness to target. Once my memo is faster than my execution, then I'll start optimizing execution. For 4BLD, I only really care about accuracy right now. For 3BLD I'd like to get faster :).

About corners with OP in 4bld. I like the idea doing corners in the beginning of the solve. But the problem is that y-perm is not center safe and rotates centers. I was always trying to make corners with the number y-perms divisible by 4. When you know few comms it is easier to do it. For example if there are 6 targets I do 4 with y-perm and 2 with comm. Now I do them all with comms and I always start solving corners first.
Why do corners first? I'm the opposite - I like doing corners last because it feels like the final straight, flat mile on a marathon :).
 
Tried another 4BLD before work - success in 26:53. Execution was about 9 minutes. It's actually not that difficult, just a few extra algs and an awful lot to remember. For example every piece type (centres, wings, corners) can have parity independently. Also it's rather fiddly, with lots of slice moves, and requires a great deal of care and concentration not to make mistakes. Verdict: I like it, and will give it a shot at my next comp, but will take it steady and aim for accuracy not speed :D

With the rate that you are improving, you'll be doing 5BLD at your next comp. It took me 4 tries just to correctly do the centers sighted. I tried edges sighted and looking at algs once and failed. I need to get back into it since I've learned M2.

I had a few PB's in the last week. Got my first sub-20 3x3 ao5. (17.73), 19.89, 20.62, (21.33), 18.68 = 19.73
Trying to push my memo on 3BLD, but I'm struggling with it. Still improved my PB to 2:24.98
Been wanting a 2/2 MBLD under 10 minutes, but kept getting 1/2 or a slow 2/2. Finally did 2/2 in 7:56.63

Update: Just did first 4/4 MBLD, in 21:18.25 (faster than my 3/3)
 
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Yes I've seen that thread but didn't work through the examples, and haven't really got my head around comms yet.

When it comes time to learn comms it's a good source.

I followed Noah's tutorial. U2 seems a good beginners' method because it follows the same principles as r2/OP. It didn't take long to pick it up.

It looks like we've learnt from the same tutorial. The only diffrence is I took algs for D layer from another source. But both were uncomfortable to execute. That's why I didnt like to solve Dlayer.

Noah says the same, and that's what I tried at first, but I find it harder to remember where I am on a clockwise sequence than I do to think through a tiling strategy (although maybe it's slower). For example, let's take the R face, and suppose it has centres R, B, U, L (face letters, not sticker letters). Now on my B face let's suppose there are two U pieces. I have an R piece in the buffer to solve, but which target to shoot to? Well, i would replace the U piece last, because I want to avoid a cycle break. I would also defer replacing the B piece, because that will speed up the dislodging of the U pieces from the B face. So I would fill the R positions in order L, B, U.

I knew someone else mentioned it. I knew what you mean. Cycle breaks are uncomfortable with U2, because it takes 7 or more moves to do nothing but take a pieces to your buffer. But when you do the way Noah shows the cycle breaks are not common - they happens to me maybe once in 10 solves. When I see 3 top pieces are solved I try to skip the pieces with 4th and back to it in the end.

but I have been wondering, why not just rotate the U face to move a different sticker into the buffer rather than doing a swap, and track the cumulative rotations? Is that what is meant by a "floating buffer"?

Yes, this is floating buffer. Someone asked about it in "one question thread". I think it's easier to be mistaken with it but maybe I am wrong.

Why do corners first? I'm the opposite - I like doing corners last because it feels like the final straight, flat mile on a marathon .

It's good to think about it. In my first official 4bld I solved that way. But now I think it's the same like 3bld - memorize last, execute first, and forget about your pairs. :)
 
With the rate that you are improving, you'll be doing 5BLD at your next comp. It took me 4 tries just to correctly do the centers sighted. I tried edges sighted and looking at algs once and failed. I need to get back into it since I've learned M2.
Yes I did several sighted solves to get the hang of it, and failed a few times. It took me 3-4 solves to realise that you have to interchange A and C on an even swap. Got no plans to try 5BLD until I have official 4BLD and 4/4 MBLD successes, and sub-3 3BLD :D. Nice PBs by the way :).

It looks like we've learnt from the same tutorial. The only diffrence is I took algs for D layer from another source. But both were uncomfortable to execute. That's why I didnt like to solve Dlayer.
What do you use for D layer? Also what do you use for U layer, if not Noah's algs?

In my first official 4bld I solved that way. But now I think it's the same like 3bld - memorize last, execute first, and forget about your pairs. :)
For 3BLD I memo corners first with images (strong), then edges as words/audio (weak but faster) with 4 letters per word, so usually 3-4 words. Then execute edges first.

For 4BLD I am doing everything as images, with <= 5 pairs per scene, in 6 rooms of my house. I memo and execute in the same order (centres, edges, corners). Once I'm more confident and start to focus on getting faster, I will probably memo centres last and use words/audio. That's still only ~4 words.

Tips appreciated :).
 
I'm amazed how little cube terminology I still know. I was actually solving with the Petrus method and never learned the standard move notation... Just memorized from the animations on Lars' site. :)

All the different BLDs, ZZ, CLL, HIJKLMNOP. Maybe some day I'll learn more! (I'm not asking for help BTW, I'll Google it first if I want to)

It's like I mentioned a G Perm to my brother, and he asked if that was a character from Fat Albert. [emoji14]
 
What do you use for D layer? Also what do you use for U layer, if not Noah's algs?

For U layer I used Noah algs. I liked them. For D layer I used Noah but switched (l B d2 B' l') U2 (l B d2 B' l'). You execute the same like Noah's: setup when needed, alg, undo setup.
For 3BLD I memo corners first with images (strong), then edges as words/audio (weak but faster) with 4 letters per word, so usually 3-4 words. Then execute edges first
.

I memo edges with two letters for word and 3 words for scene/sentence/image. The second scene/sentence/image is made of 1-3 words. Next corners with audio pairs AJ, CD etc. Execute: corners and edges. Corners with 3style, edges with M2. For 4 bld I memo: centers with same rules like edges in 3bld. Next edges but I always group 4 words in one room. So it looks like: 4 words, 4 words, last words (3-4 or sometimes 5). Corners last. Execution: corners, centers, edges.

Tips appreciated.

I wish I had any :).
 
Well done everyone on your recent successes.

Jason: Hopefully you'll be sub-30 in a few weeks / months. It all depends on how much practice you put in. :)
Rastinha: Do you know 4LLL algs yet? It's time to learn them as well as learning proper F2L (corner/edge pairs) if you are currently using beginner method (corners then edges)
Mark: 4BLD success at your next competition plz. :)

Yep, I only stuck with beginners method for 2 days before going to Fridrich/CFOP with 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL. But I've been cubing less than 2 weeks all up, so I have plenty to work on in terms of thinking quicker, not fumbling my algorithms so much (aka working on finger tricks - I struggle a lot with certain combinations of movements and getting them fast). I'm pretty happy with progress so far. No idea how this BLD stuff works though, will save that for later I think. I'm pretty good at memorizing things though, so hopefully that will help when I decide to give it a go.

I need to learn what the algorithms look/feel like as I am voicing them in my head to do them so they only come out as fast as I can say words in my head.
 
For 3BLD I memo corners first with images (strong), then edges as words/audio (weak but faster) with 4 letters per word, so usually 3-4 words. Then execute edges first.

For 4BLD I am doing everything as images, with <= 5 pairs per scene, in 6 rooms of my house. I memo and execute in the same order (centres, edges, corners). Once I'm more confident and start to focus on getting faster, I will probably memo centres last and use words/audio. That's still only ~4 words.

Tips appreciated :).

For 4BLD I memo corners first with images and visual, to make it stick a bit more, next I memo wings with 3 sentences of about 4 letter pairs, lastly I memorize centers with audio and sometimes also with a sentence for the last 3 or 4 pairs, depends on how well the rest is sticking. I then execute in reverse order, Centers, wings and corners.

For 5BLD I memo corners the same way as in 4BLD, then edges, wings, + centers with roman rooms (4-5 images per room) and + centers the same way as in 4BLD. Execution in reverse order. I like memoing corners first because if there is parity, I swap UB and UL in memo to avoid it.

When you don't have a success what is the most probable cause? Mine is often center execution I might look for that thread you were talking about, I'm improving my system to execute always the same way also. Will tell you if it works ok for me.

for 3BLD I do the same as Mark
 
I've been doing the same thing, but mainly because of my tendency to go "yargh" and get all flustered when I mess up, adding like 10 seconds on, plus the extra move. I'm trying to get more efficient at my F2L as that is quite slow at the moment, so if I mess up before then I usually quit and start again.

Sounds like you had a good session, measurable progress is pretty satisfying huh?

I was giving myself until Thursday to get a time under 1 min, and I got it last night (Tuesday) with a 58.33 - finally milliseconds worth counting! I am also averaging in the 1:07ish region, pretty consistently around that time and only a couple under a minute. BUT I also got lucky with a PLL skip I think this morning and got a 48.09! Pretty happy with that as a PB for less than 2 weeks in.

I filmed a 1:02.xx solve and then edited out all the bits where I sat there thinking and not turning anything, and my solve was around 33 seconds, so I can see heaps of room for improvement just by looking ahead. And my moves are slow as, so need to train up these fingers! I bought a MoYu mini as I have freakishly small hands, to see if that helps at all [emoji14] Just have to wait for it to get here from Aussie.
It's fun to read your progress, at this point you are just a few weeks "behind" me. Of course you may pass me anytime, and that's fine too. :)

I'm getting excited to have my first sub 20 solve. I had a lucky 25 the other day. I remember my first lucky 59 just a few weeks ago! Fun stuff!
 
It's fun to read your progress, at this point you are just a few weeks "behind" me. Of course you may pass me anytime, and that's fine too. :)

I'm getting excited to have my first sub 20 solve. I had a lucky 25 the other day. I remember my first lucky 59 just a few weeks ago! Fun stuff!

Yay, it's reassuring to hear that you're getting lucky 25s and had your first lucky 59 a few weeks ago, at the moment I'm struggling to see how I'll get any lower, haha, but I have actually had a lucky 48.xx and 49.xx which is exciting! I always think "Oh but I just got a PLL skip" and then I think, everyone's personal bests must be good case scenarios like that so I'll take it.

I may be coming to FW in a couple of weeks, my grandad is not very well... Is there a group of you there at all?
 
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