Older cubers discussions

[gogozerg]

The 13.03 was before he was 40.

I was 40, and it would have been an easy sub-13 without my neighbor yelling with his feet on the table!

 

[Lid]

I was 40, and it would have been an easy sub-13 without my neighbor yelling with his feet on the table!

Logiqx doesn't use the exact birthdate, but rather the year, so basicly everyones birthday is dec-31, for example I am 1 year older on all my results on his lists, since I was born in January.

 

[Jlvs2run]

For accuracy and credibility purposes, the exact birth dates should be used.

 

[Selkie]

For accuracy and credibility purposes, the exact birth dates should be used.

WCA does not expose dates of birth and in fact they were not collected from early on so the way @Logiqx calculates it is a workaround but appreciated to at least give us an official over 40's ranking

 

[Selkie]

I was 40, and it would have been an easy sub-13 without my neighbor yelling with his feet on the table!

Great to see you back competing, can never have enough 40+ competitors

 

[Jason Green]

For accuracy and credibility purposes, the exact birth dates should be used.

Plus as he has explained most sports stats are done this way. I'm no expert on sports stats but it made sense to me.

 

[Logiqx]

For accuracy and credibility purposes, the exact birth dates should be used.

Most other sports / actual sports (in my case, athletics and windsurfing) age remains constant during the competition year.

You essentially start and end the competition year in the same age category regardless of where your birthday falls.

There are two advantages to using the same approach for the unofficial over-40 rankings:
1) It's consistent with the way that other sports do their oldies rankings (over 35/40 is often called "masters" *).
2) The rankings data is completely public and YOB is less sensitive than DOB from a privacy / identity perspective.

* I / we are in no way a master when it comes to cubing. lol

 

[pglewis]

As another January b-day I was zero years old for nearly two years!

Normally I prefer not to rush my aging but I turn 50 in six months yet won't be forging ahead with the over-50s until 2019.

[Edit: Keeping in mind I understand why it's done this way, just noting the curious side-effects]

 

[Jlvs2run]

Athletics age records are based on birth dates, not years. Age group competitions might be grouped based on years for organizational purposes, but that is not a qualification for records. The ARRS bases their athletic records on birth days, as shown in their single age athletics listing of records, such as for the 5k on the track, and their statement of standards.

Performances are subject to the same standards as listing for national records plus the additional requirement that the runner's date of birth (as well as the race date) must be known. These are required to be able to document the runner's exact age at the time of the performance.

The IAAF does not ratify or maintain world single age records. The USATF does not have jurisdiction over world records and does not ratify single age records although the USATF maintains such lists for the USA. These records should be identified as ARRS recognized world records.

 

[newtonbase]

Racehorses all have 1st January as their birth date.

 

[oneshot]

3BLD PB for me. 5:23. Breaking 5 minutes should come soon.

 

[moralsh]

Worlds was awesome and also incredibly tiresome staffing all 4 days, but it was worth it every minute, I'll try to recap a bit:

Day 1:

After arriving late on Wednesday night we got there early because we didn't want to wait for registration, we didn't but in exchange I was very tired the whole day. I began judging feet 1st round and had the luck to judge winner and WR holder Jakub Kipa on a 31 and a 28 solve, I despise the event but that was truly amazing.

Later on I had to go to scramble for the first Multiblind attempt group 1, and that was one of the few glitches on the otherwise superb organisation. we were waiting for scrambles for like an hour an the whole day was delayed because of that and similar problems on the other room. I scrambled all of Shivam's cubes, more than half of Kamil's and some others, I stayed to judge because there weren't a lot of staff around. Very inspiring, makes me want to get back into Multi.

I missed Felik's 7x7 WR because I was submitting my 4x4 for 4BLD, and that was my first competition experience at worlds, on the bright side I managed to make the 3 attempts on the half an hour limit (10.xx, 8.xx, 8.xx IIRC) but I DNFed all 3 of them, I was also feeling very tired (and it was only the first day!) but that happens sometimes. I went downstairs to scramble Megaminx first round for a couple of rounds and we called it a day.

I was able to talk a fair bit to @Shaky Hands and @mark49152, a little less with @Logiqx, mainly because most of the time we both were staffing in different things, and didn't see @bubbagrub at all until the last day.

Day 2 is on the way

 

[Selkie]

@moralsh - Great summary of day 1, I look forward to hearing about day 2.

Lots of you will be aware I have been sub 2:05 on 5x5 for a while, most recently stuck at 2:02 globally. Well following having a go on @Shaky Hands Cubicle Labs WuShuang M at London Open I ordered myself one. After a few daya practice I am so relieved to be able to say I think I am now sub 2 globally. I just did an Ao50 of 1:57.04. Edge apiring look ahead seems to have improved, coupled with a couple of seconds saving on my 3x3 stage due to the magnets.

The best solve was a personal best but should have been so much lower. When you get a PB when you have parity, one of your slowest PLLs and panicked and did 2 OLLs I know a sub 1:40 must come soon:-

5x5 PB Single 1:40.69

 

[Logiqx]

Athletics age records are based on birth dates, not years. Age group competitions might be grouped based on years for organizational purposes, but that is not a qualification for records. The ARRS bases their athletic records on birth days, as shown in their single age athletics listing of records, such as for the 5k on the track, and their statement of standards.

For reference, I was referring to the following rules for youngsters and oldies...

IFCA - http://www.internationalwindsurfing.com/userfiles/documents/IFCA_Championship_Rules.pdf

2.3. Age Divisions 2.3.1. Youth is a man or woman who is less than 20 years old. 2.3.2. Junior is a boy or girl who is less than 17 years old.
2.3.3. Master is a man who has reached the age of 35, or a woman who has reached the age of 30.
2.3.4. Grand Master is a man who has reached the age of 45, or a woman who has reached the age of 40.
2.3.5. A sailor must have reached the minimum age in the relevant division by December 31st before the year of competition.
2.3.6. A sailor must not be older than the maximum age limit in the relevant age division by December 31st in the year of competition.
2.3.7. A minimum of 5 entries in a division is required to constitute this division
p

British Triathlon - https://www.britishtriathlon.org/about-us/faqs?category=age-group

As an Age-Group athlete, you will compete against other Age-Group athletes within your age-band category. The age-band category that you fall into depends on your age on December 31st in the year of competition.

Example: If you are 45 on 29 December 2016 then for the whole of 2016 you will compete in the 45-49 age-group.

IAAF - https://www.iaaf.org/download/download?filename=89ed4cba-6b5e-49fe-a43e-9f5487b77a84.pdf

Age and Sex Categories
Age Categories
1. Competition under these Rules may be divided into age group
classifications as follows:
under-18 (u18) Boys and girls: Any athlete of 16 or 17 years on
31st December in the year of the competition.
under-20 (u20) Men and women: Any athlete of 18 or 19 years on
31st December in the year of the competition.
147 RULES 140, 141
IAAF COMPETITION RULES 2016-2017
Master Men and women: Any athlete who has reached his/her 35th
birthday.
Note (i): All other matters concerning Masters’ competitions are
referred to the IAAF/WMA Handbook approved by the IAAF and
WMA Councils.
Note (ii): Eligibility, including minimum ages for participation in
IAAF Competitions, shall be subject to the specific Technical
Regulations.
2. An athlete shall be eligible to compete in an age group competition
under these Rules if he is within the age range specified in the
relevant age group classification. An athlete must be able to provide
proof of his age through presentation of a valid passport or other
form of evidence as permitted by the Regulations for the
competition. An athlete who fails or refuses to provide such proof
shall not be eligible to compete.

Summary:
- Windsurfing = my existing calculation (i.e. guaranteed >=40)
- Triathlon = my existing calculation - 1 year (i.e. guaranteed >=39)
- Athletics = my existing calculation for <20 but the IAAF switches to using the exact DOB for over 35's.

I remembered the fixed date calculation youngsters (under-18 /under-20) from when I was competing aged 18-28 but I only knew one master (>=35) so I didn't realise they were using DOB.

I don't propose to gather and publish peoples DOB since it feels irresponsible. As a compromise, I could change the rankings to use the same principle as triathlon, meaning that people are guaranteed to be at least 39 years old. As a consequence this would include Giles' best times and allow some of the youngsters on this thread (e.g @pglewis) to appear slightly earlier.

 

[moralsh]

Thanks @Selkie, here it goes:

Day 2, Friday:

I had only 5BLD on the whole day, Worlds organisation where kind enough to let me scramble 5x5 for 90 minutes (all 3 rounds in my section) just to warm up my finger a bit , my accuracy scrambling was not perfect but was good enough , then a little bit of judging on SQ1 and I went upstairs for 5BLD, I was far less tired as the day before but unfortunately the event is a bit harder First attempt was safe (28.xx minutes) and DNF by 3-4 centres and a lot of wings due to wrongly undone setup. I had to rush second attempt as the cumulative limit was 50 minutes, I memoed for 11 minutes and executed in 7 for a 18.xx DNF, the attempt was a clear DNF but it left a good sensation. (later, after worlds I did a 19:04 success, so I need to push more).

Then I missed watching Feliks' 38s 5x5 WR, because I was scrambling 5x5 again but it was amazing that everybody around was in awe of it as if nobody could really believe it.

After that, some more MBLD scrambling, I scrambled all of Kamil's cubes, and several others. at the end of the attempt, Maskow took the lead with a 40/46. after that, downstairs to 6x6 finals.

in 6x6 Finals, I judged Mats Valk, who had a better first round than the final. At the end Feliks and Mats were talking and Feliks was telling him that Kevin Hays (who was about to start his last solve) was going to win, Mats told him that maybe if he had a bad solve and Feliks answered "not that bad" or something of the likes, we all watched Kevin's final double parity and his big celebration.

I was scrambling again for mega so I saw that final from the side, Juan Pablo did what he was supposed to and won. I finally watch the 7x7 final properly and that was the end of day 2.

Watching le tour d'Eiffel fireworks that night was also incredibly awesome and something I'll remember for a while. Wow.

Tomorrow day 3!

Edit: Forgot to mention that while leaving 5BLD, I peeped Mark's scoresheet and saw his awesome 18:45

 

[mark49152]

Regarding the over 40s list, IMHO the current system is pretty much the only reasonable compromise where more accurate DOB is unavailable, regardless of what other sports do. I also think that by default it should remain as it is and results achieved at 39 rather than 40 should be excluded.

If someone is unhappy that their results when just turned 40 are excluded, maybe they could voluntarily provide a date at which their times should start being counted? That could be DOB (their choice whether to disclose it) or it could be the date of the first comp they attended aged 40.

Maybe a separate list is in order for the 30-39s or 35-39s if there is demand for it .

 

[JanW]

I think the current system for the over 40s list is fine. Gives me an extra 10 months to practice before I need to compete for the rankings that really matter.

 

[Jlvs2run]

I was referring to the following rules for youngsters and oldies.

The rules allow for age group competitions to be grouped based on years for organizational purposes. However, that is not a qualification for record keeping, which is based on exact DOB, at least in athletics.

I don't propose to gather and publish peoples DOB since it feels irresponsible.

I understand how you feel, as keeping records is work. One thing that would be nice to see in the records is separation by 10 year divisions, especially beyond 40 year olds, even if there are only one or two people in each division, as this would encourage more to participate.

 

[Jlvs2run]

Regarding the over 40s list, IMHO the current system is pretty much the only reasonable compromise

People much older than 40 would rather have their own division.

If someone is unhappy that their results when just turned 40 are excluded, maybe they could voluntarily provide a date at which their times should start being counted? That could be DOB (their choice whether to disclose it) or it could be the date of the first comp they attended aged 40.

That looks fine to me.

 

[mark49152]

People much older than 40 would rather have their own division.

Maybe so, but that's a different question than how to handle age boundaries.