Older cubers discussions

Torrente

Member
Hello, I am a 50yo cuber, I used to solve the cube 37 years ago in around 45 seconds and I am coming back to it.
Currently I am able to solve it with the basic method proposed by The Cubicle that has quite simplified algorithms in around 2.5minutes, now I am transitioning to the basic method proposed by cubeskills.com but I am having difficulty memorizing the last layer corner permutation algorithm [ (R U R’ U’) (R’ F R2 U’) R’ U’ (R U R’ F’) ] any idea about memorization techniques for the red part of this algorithm.

My idea is to continue with more advanced methods with the first objective of reach less then 1 minute and I understand that I will need to exercise the memory too ;-)

Thank you!

One Wheel

Member
Hello, I am a 50yo cuber, I used to solve the cube 37 years ago in around 45 seconds and I am coming back to it.
Currently I am able to solve it with the basic method proposed by The Cubicle that has quite simplified algorithms in around 2.5minutes, now I am transitioning to the basic method proposed by cubeskills.com but I am having difficulty memorizing the last layer corner permutation algorithm [ (R U R’ U’) (R’ F R2 U’) R’ U’ (R U R’ F’) ] any idea about memorization techniques for the red part of this algorithm.

My idea is to continue with more advanced methods with the first objective of reach less then 1 minute and I understand that I will need to exercise the memory too ;-)

Thank you!
Welcome! For that particular algorithm I would split it up a little differently. Try R U R’ U’ R’ F) (R2 U’ R’ U’) (R U R’ F’).

pglewis

Member
Hello, I am a 50yo cuber, I used to solve the cube 37 years ago in around 45 seconds and I am coming back to it.
Currently I am able to solve it with the basic method proposed by The Cubicle that has quite simplified algorithms in around 2.5minutes, now I am transitioning to the basic method proposed by cubeskills.com but I am having difficulty memorizing the last layer corner permutation algorithm [ (R U R’ U’) (R’ F R2 U’) R’ U’ (R U R’ F’) ] any idea about memorization techniques for the red part of this algorithm.

My idea is to continue with more advanced methods with the first objective of reach less then 1 minute and I understand that I will need to exercise the memory too ;-)

Thank you!
Breaking it down into short triggers would be: (R U R' U') (R F R) (R U' R' U') (R U R' F'). Execution-wise you definitely want to learn it with the back-to-back Rs combined as R2 though.

It's funny that I had to execute it on a cube to recognize this as T-Perm . Once you get it into muscle memory your hands will just know what to do, and it won't take long with PLLs due to the frequency you'll use them.

h2f

I did some timed tests to see how quickly I can trace-- just saying the Speffz letters out loud without memorizing-- and my initial benchmark is 50-60 seconds. I'd like to be memo'ing completely in 90 seconds max. I think I can cut my tracing time in half fairly quickly with dedicated practice. I think the top guys do full memo for 3bld in like 8-10 seconds, I figure I ought to be able to trace in 25 seconds lol.
I do a lot only edges or corners memos and solutions and it helps a lot to cut off memo times.

xyzzy

Member
I am having difficulty memorizing the last layer corner permutation algorithm [ (R U R’ U’) (R’ F R2 U’) R’ U’ (R U R’ F’) ] any idea about memorization techniques for the red part of this algorithm.
As an alternative, rather than splitting the alg into smaller chunks and then still trying to memorise those chunks by brute force, you can look at how the pieces move around as you perform the alg.

The first half of this alg moves the front-right corner and edge around, and the second half moves the front-left corner and edge around. (Follow the link to see what it looks like on a virtual cube.) Many of the last layer algs you'll learn will consist of moving corner-edge pairs around the cube, eventually bringing them back to their original positions, so this is a very useful technique for memorising algs.

OldUKCuber

Member
Hi everyone. New to the community here - but been cubing on and off for the last 38 years or so. I'm 46, so I hope I qualify for the "Older Cuber" title. Currently I'm averaging around 25s using CFOP.

I need to set myself a target - hopefully resulting in faster solves. I'm thinking of learning full OLL - I just need to commit to it and get going. Any tips? Any good websites for practicing? (anything better than bestsiteever.ru?)

pglewis

Member
I do a lot only edges or corners memos and solutions and it helps a lot to cut off memo times.
I tried a little metronome practice yesterday but I still need to get faster for that to be effective I think, especially on corners. I'm a lot slower converting sticker => Speffz on corners than I am edges, which makes sense with one more color to process. I may focus on corner-only tracing for a bit.

Hi everyone. New to the community here - but been cubing on and off for the last 38 years or so. I'm 46, so I hope I qualify for the "Older Cuber" title. Currently I'm averaging around 25s using CFOP.

I need to set myself a target - hopefully resulting in faster solves. I'm thinking of learning full OLL - I just need to commit to it and get going. Any tips? Any good websites for practicing? (anything better than bestsiteever.ru?)
Full OLL helps a lot but it is not a quick fix. It has taken me over a year and a half to get to the point where I can really say "I know full OLL", and there are 4 or 5 that are still dodgy tbh. It's not just that there are more than twice as may cases as PLL but OLL case frequency is a lot lower than PLL so you get less real-world practice per case.

The younger, faster folks will tell you that you don't need full OLL to get sub 20 but I'll counter that it sure does help, and because it takes a while to get all the algs down I believe the sooner you start learning some of them the better. Better F2L is one of those things we'll likely always benefit from, so for sure, definitely focus on improving your F2L cases... but I'd say to also learn a few new OLLs per week to add to your arsenal. Some, like the 6-move T and P OLLs are no-brainers to learn if you don't have those yet; it might help to list the OLLs you currently know.

pglewis

Member
3x3 potential is still showing good things this past week. I beat my PB single by a few hundredths but no sub :14 yet. Low 16 full-steps aren't exactly common but don't completely shock me at this point. Kinda weird that I've had more 14s than 15s in the past couple weeks. Still not consistent enough to get my global whittled down, I've been on pace for a sub :22 Ao50 a few times but always hit a spell of mistake solves over :25. Both single and Ao50 are imminently beatable right now, my Ao5 is still a silly outlier for me, and sub :20 Ao12 is still my next biggest personal milestone.

3bld: Haven't put in as much time as I wanted but I'm definitely getting more comfortable with corner tracing and untimed check-ins are still better than 50% success. Practicing the trace is still the main prescription as well as drilling my image list, pairs that I can't conjure an image quickly are another big culprit on my memo time. My PB is only 3:12 so I expect to be threatening that, if I haven't beat, by the end of the month.

In the general cubing news: I'm kinda feeling sad for Mark B. Beats the most hallowed and oldest standing WCA record (I think), but then only holds it for a few months. Then FMC single and average which he only had for, what, a week? I didn't wanna muddle the WR thread with that and certainly don't wanna diminish the amazing accomplishment, but damn the luck lol.

Mike Hughey

Super Moderator
Staff member
In the general cubing news: I'm kinda feeling sad for Mark B. Beats the most hallowed and oldest standing WCA record (I think), but then only holds it for a few months. Then FMC single and average which he only had for, what, a week? I didn't wanna muddle the WR thread with that and certainly don't wanna diminish the amazing accomplishment, but damn the luck lol.
I understand that sentiment, but I admit I don't share it. From my perspective, the accomplishment is earning a WR, no matter how long you hold it. Mark has set himself as one of the elite by holding two unrelated WRs, and as far as I'm concerned, the important thing is that he has held it, and no one can take that away.

I remember back when I dreamed of "stealing" a couple of world records. I had two chances: once for multiBLD back when they first changed the rules to the hour time limit, and hadn't yet decided to allow old accomplishments to count if they met the new rules. I attempted 10 cubes and was fully capable of getting it, but only got 6/10 - so very disappointing. I think I only needed 7 points to get the WR. I knew it was "stealing" the record because I wasn't really good enough for a world record, but I wouldn't have cared. I would have always been able to say I once had the WR (even if they later "invalidated" it by allowing the older records to count, I still would have had it according to official rules at the time).

The second chance was for 5BLD. When they invalidated Matyas's solves, the WR for 5BLD was ludicrously worse than the best in the world. Ville was ruling at 5BLD at the time at home, but couldn't get a decent solve in competition. Several of us were attempting to "steal" the WR by getting one before he got one, but I unfortunately had a streak of bad solves in competition then. I remember how upset Chester Lian was (because he's such a nice guy) when he managed to do it at a competition we both were at, because his time was significantly better than I was capable of, and he knew he was putting the record out of reach of my ability at the time, and I think he was hoping I could have a chance at it too. But hey, Chester got his WR, and that will always be on the books.

I just think it's great to hold a WR no matter how short the time. It's practically inevitable that a given WR will someday be broken; it's just an honor to hold it at all.

xyzzy

Member
From my perspective, the accomplishment is earning a WR, no matter how long you hold it.
I got into competitive speedcubing way too late and am not skilled enough to earn any WRs, but I did manage to briefly hold NR single+average in one event and that's probably one of my proudest achievements ever. An absolutely tiny, minuscule achievement compared to a world record (much less breaking a very-long-standing MBLD world record and getting a ridiculously low FMC world record), but I'll take it.

But that said, I'm still a bit frustrated that I only held the NRs for a few months. It's a complicated feeling, I guess? (I mean, the MBLD world record was honestly up for grabs, since Shivam, Kamil, and a few others were also getting sup-Maskow results unofficially, but nobody expected the FMC record to be broken so shortly. And it's especially sad because just changing that one insertion would've given Mark both a 16 single and a 22.0 mean, the same as what Sebastiano achieved.)

Mike Hughey

Super Moderator
Staff member
And it's especially sad because just changing that one insertion would've given Mark both a 16 single and a 22.0 mean, the same as what Sebastiano achieved.)
I do agree that this is rather sad. And there's definitely a big psychological difference between tying a WR and beating it, so there's that here too.

OldUKCuber

Member
I tried a little metronome practice yesterday but I still need to get faster for that to be effective I think, especially on corners. I'm a lot slower converting sticker => Speffz on corners than I am edges, which makes sense with one more color to process. I may focus on corner-only tracing for a bit.

Full OLL helps a lot but it is not a quick fix. It has taken me over a year and a half to get to the point where I can really say "I know full OLL", and there are 4 or 5 that are still dodgy tbh. It's not just that there are more than twice as may cases as PLL but OLL case frequency is a lot lower than PLL so you get less real-world practice per case.

The younger, faster folks will tell you that you don't need full OLL to get sub 20 but I'll counter that it sure does help, and because it takes a while to get all the algs down I believe the sooner you start learning some of them the better. Better F2L is one of those things we'll likely always benefit from, so for sure, definitely focus on improving your F2L cases... but I'd say to also learn a few new OLLs per week to add to your arsenal. Some, like the 6-move T and P OLLs are no-brainers to learn if you don't have those yet; it might help to list the OLLs you currently know.
I've decided to pursue full OLL. I think I pretty much know two-thirds of them already - just need to push myself to learn the rest. C-Shapes, I-Shapes, Knight Move Shapes and Awkward Shapes make up most of what I don't know. Finding the OLL trainer on bestsiteever.ru invaluable. I think F2L will need some serious brain re-wiring - so that's going to be a longer term goal.

pglewis

Member
I've decided to pursue full OLL. I think I pretty much know two-thirds of them already - just need to push myself to learn the rest. C-Shapes, I-Shapes, Knight Move Shapes and Awkward Shapes make up most of what I don't know. Finding the OLL trainer on bestsiteever.ru invaluable. I think F2L will need some serious brain re-wiring - so that's going to be a longer term goal.
I didn't realize you were that far along with OLL, definitely might as well work on finishing them off.

F2L has lots of cases but has the advantage that you get plenty of practice with up to 4 pairs per solve. JPerm has a PDF that's the best reference I've seen to date (most of the F2L lists only cover last slot, not all the real world cases). Link in the video description on YouTube:

OldUKCuber

Member
I didn't realize you were that far along with OLL, definitely might as well work on finishing them off.

F2L has lots of cases but has the advantage that you get plenty of practice with up to 4 pairs per solve. JPerm has a PDF that's the best reference I've seen to date (most of the F2L lists only cover last slot, not all the real world cases). Link in the video description on YouTube:
Thanks for the link. I follow J-Perm and had seen that before, but now I've downloaded the pdf as I'm getting a bit more serious about learning new stuff. I've also downloaded Feliks' F2L Algs as that covers all slots as well (cube rotation is often a really bad thing for me - old habits die hard).

Oldmancfop

Member
So look ahead is starting to feel good, I feel like my good solves are becoming reasonably fluid without too many pauses, they’re starting to feel effortless. I’ll try a few timed solves see if my times are coming down. Hmm tough cross but I can work with it, dammit I didn’t find my first pair, I can’t see it, where is it? turn faster I’ve got to make up time, hell I turned too fast now my look ahead has gone completely out of the window, I should feel like I’m one step ahead but I’m one step behind, I’m way behind now TURN FASTER, MAKE UP TIME!! I need a good pll, which one is it, my brain has frozen, that one, wait something’s not right, arghh wrong one, another pll and stop the clock, 38 seconds… fan-bloody-tastic!

OK they’re not all that bad, but does this sound familiar or am I destined to never be any good at this thing?

OldUKCuber

Member
Yep. 1 step back before taking 2 steps forward is how you progress here.