Official confirmation of the removal of Magic and Master Magic events

[samchoochiu]

Literally every word of this paragraph is irrelevant to my post.



I honestly don't know what this sentence is supposed to mean. I did address your point..?



I am glad that you don't feel offended or degraded, because I didn't intend to cause either. I was merely pointing out an amusing flaw in your (...what's the word I want here? reasoning? argument? eh whatever)

you said you found it amusing that I picked out someone that "does something other than magic very well" and I said in my second post that he is talented at magic as he is at square-1. What is so hard for you to comprehend?

 

[kinch2002]

It sucks that magics are being removed but honestly there's nothing we can do about it. We're powerless. Personally I think our voices should be able to be heard, and if enough people don't want magics to be removed we should keep them. And for the people that really dislike magics for whatever reason, they just shouldn't compete in them.

anyway, I'm obviously really upset that magics are being removed, but since there's nothing that can stop it there's no point in arguing about it...

They are and have been heard. Remember that most delegates, as well as Tyson and Ron are on this forum. Just because you haven't got your way doesn't mean you haven't been heard. I certainly understand that magics mean a lot to you and others, and I don't just turn around say 'you're stupid', but after weighing up each side I still put forward my support in favour of their removal.

 

[uberCuber]

you said you found it amusing that I picked out someone that "does something other than magic very well" and I said in my second post that he is talented at magic as he is at square-1. What is so hard for you to comprehend?

Thank you for summarizing that, but it really wasn't necessary, I was there.

In case you didn't get it, the fact that Takao is as skilled at magic as he is at square-1 is irrelevant to my original post. You said "There are some people that only do magic". You followed with the words "for example". If you are pointing out that some people only do magic, an example would be someone that only does magic, not somebody who is also really good at an unrelated puzzle. This is the one and only point I was making in that post. I understand that magics would be very important to Takao, but it is irrelevant.

This is the last post I am going to make regarding this to avoid cluttering the thread further. This point didn't even deserve this many posts as it is.

 

[Dene]

Since we cannot reliably time a solve with our timing procedure, the 2^3 event will disappear next?

Don't get my hopes up!

 

[Kirjava]

"Lack of puzzle quality"... Of course.
"Difficulty in regulation"... Certainly.

But there's absolutely nothing new.
WCA does not explain why they decided to remove Magic events now.
Did they just realize it is not a puzzle?

So new problems are required in order for them to be removed?

Does this mean that we can't remove +2 now because it has the same problems as it did in 2003?

And for the people that really dislike magics for whatever reason, they just shouldn't compete in them.

Same with humans and wars.

 

[ThomasJE]

People have been saying that we can't record and analyse all the solves. So, I thought that the judge could see the solve as normal, and then he can either rule the solve OK, +2, DNF, OR he could review the tape if he is unsure. A bit like a video referee in a rugby match.

 

[APdRF]

But in a rugby match, they only play rugby. If you do a competition only with magic, then you can have a judge only for this, watching it in slow mo, etc.

 

[ThomasJE]

But in a rugby match, they only play rugby. If you do a competition only with magic, then you can have a judge only for this, watching it in slow mo, etc.

But in a magic event, we only do magic. And as for having a judge just for that, I wasn't thinking of that, but that would be a nice idea. It would stop confusion, and then solves that they want reviewed, they can ask for them to be reviewed in the next event (possibly one the video judge doesn't compete in)

 

[APdRF]

Yes, but you want from magic to be a funny and fast event, if you only have a judge, or lets say two, this would delay the competition so much. I think that the WCA has taken the right decision.

 

[prażeodym]

It is true that magic don't require thinking - but imho it's not reason for removing them!
Magics were always diffrent event, it's about taking control of Your stress, make fast moves, take tactic - if I want to go as fast as I can, or I want to make slower solve to be sure that I will not make any mistackes. Magics were always unpredictable (for example I had 3 place in MM on WC09 with average ~3s so it was very lucky for me, or when Wojciech Szatanowski won Polish Nationals in Master magic with average 2.92 - is that surprising? well mb not, but for everyone it was because on competition before he made ER in the slowest solves in the world with avg 22.74).
What about thinking in Magic? Do You have to think at all? Well, do You think while You are solving 3x3? You only recognize situation and make algorithm. Is that You really call thinking? With a pure heart I can say that for example SQUARE-1 doesn't requiere any thinking at all - You have to only learn 100 algorithms. Is square-1 more popular than Magic? ofc not, it's 4 times less. So why square-1 is still official event? I have no idea, mb because You have to recognize algorithm, that it's SOOOOOOO EXTREAMLY HARD! (ofc not for those who didn't notice sarcasm). You will probably ask why I am so offensive to square-1? Because I dont like it anymore. Why? On Last competition (Polish Open 2012) I didn't had time to practise - because I was the organiser. I was 3rd in the final with average 23.07! (my best avg on competition is 13.39, normal average about 16). Why I was so bad? Because I forgot only 1 algorithm! I had this algorithm 3 times, and everytime I make it slow 2 look.

Besides magics are only one event, that are 100% just. Have You ever had lucky case in Magic? Why one event is better than other, if one event can win someone who is 2-3s slower than other guy, but he won because he had 3 lucky cases? Well I know one situation like this on one Polish competition in 2x2 event!

How about FMC? This event require thinking. Well You are completelly right, but does it require any dexterity? Besides I know some cubers who got FMC prizes for knowing manny algorithms (mostly ZB ZZ etc) but ofc I don't say that It doesn't require any thinking. Indeed it does a lot, I like fmc because of this all FM theory (for example NISS), but I never practise it, so probably You will call me stupid, because my pb is 42 (I only solve on competition).

Is solving makes you better? I think yes, because Speedstacking is very good for Your brain also.

- Ok how about judging?
Well I think I could judge magic without any mistackes, because I know what to look at. I think if someone feel that someone's decision was unfair, I think they should film their solves on their own, and then show it to judge etc. Besides wca can always change the rules that it's hard to see (like stoping the timer, it could be just other regulations for magic only).

To sum up, I think magic should be still official event because every event require something else - mb You don't need to know billion algortithms for it, but You need other things that You don't have to have in other events. I don't know other much popular event than magic, and I don't know what would replace it. I am sorry for those who practise magic a lot. I don't regret time spent on solving magic because it was fun for me.

PS: I am not even sorry for long post, but sorry for my english, I know it's bad

 

[Dene]

People have been saying that we can't record and analyse all the solves. So, I thought that the judge could see the solve as normal, and then he can either rule the solve OK, +2, DNF, OR he could review the tape if he is unsure. A bit like a video referee in a rugby match.

Jolly good. Now we only need sponsors to donate millions of dollars year in year out to pay for the technology needed to implement this at competitions all around the world every week. While we're at it, why not build a stadium dedicated just to speedcubing competitions? The money from spectators can go towards improving the video review technology. We could even get a big tv deal; that would bring in huge money!

 

[antoineccantin]

Out of curiosity, what will happen to people that only competed in Magics' profiles?

 

[Stefan]

As Stephan Pochman said "its like kicking someone's sand castle".

No no no no no. That was a different context. I said that specifically towards people who solely wrote like "Yes, I'm so happy". Removing the sand castle for good reasons is something completely different.

 

[HelpCube]

Look, here is the difference between Magics and the other puzzles. The other puzzles are well, puzzles, while the Magics are not. There is no variety in a Magic solve, it is simply performing the exact same hand movements over and over again. You can't do that with any of the puzzles. I used to practice Magic and Master Magic quite a bit, but I realized that it doesn't stimulate my brain cells at all and is completely monotonous. I like to compare Magics to NASCAR, but without the other cars in the way. It's simply left turn, left turn, left turn, left turn, and then another left turn. Thank you WCA, for finally taking some initiative and getting this done.

 

[ben1996123]

People who are making up reasons for magic to stay when it's only because they really like it should try speedstacking.

 

[ThomasJE]

Jolly good. Now we only need sponsors to donate millions of dollars year in year out to pay for the technology needed to implement this at competitions all around the world every week. While we're at it, why not build a stadium dedicated just to speedcubing competitions? The money from spectators can go towards improving the video review technology. We could even get a big tv deal; that would bring in huge money!

Technology needed:
Video camera (comes in phones that can be easily borrowed (probably easier used by the owner))
Memory card reader (comes with many laptops now, a dongel can be bought for around £6-7/$10, and many people have them)
Computer (used at almost all competitions)

Cost: 0

We have the technology, let's use it.

 

[Olji]

If you're using a phone cam you have to consider the resolution and stuff, there's quite a deal of phones with cameras that will only show the solve as a blur, which won't help that much.

 

[Endgame]

I can think of a two reasons why, and I know this will add questions too...

1. They can video tape the solves and replay them in slow motion...

a. This can be done during Blind solves due to their massive time
i. This would be done by one or two judges, and other judges would still judge the blind events

b. Could be videotaped by many angles
2. There are a lot of magic solvers, so this would cause more uproar then people unbothered.

I hope competitions still hold it, even if it isn't official. Hopefully, either it will come back or this decision will be a scare to those magic solvers, such as myself, and this won't go through.

How are you planning to regulate this video taping concept? The speedsolving community is semi-voluntary. It takes a great effort to organise an event, to pay for the venue, to get all the timers and now you also want them to hold Magics (unofficial!) and use videotapes? How on earth can you collect the necessary funds for this? And then you propose videotaping it from multiple angles, requiring more cameras.

Yeah, very good idea.

Oh, and before I post this, one more question: how can you make time to judge the slow-mo replays? Many competitions are already stuffed with events running over a complete weekend 9-to-5.

We have the technology, let's use it.

Yeah, now let's invent a time machine so we can make competitions longer.

 

[cubernya]

One question (problem really): What will happen to the people and IDs that have only competed in Magic and Master Magic? Will they be deleted, hidden, or just left blank?

 

[Thepuzzlesolver]

How are you planning to regulate this video taping concept? The speedsolving community is semi-voluntary. It takes a great effort to organise an event, to pay for the venue, to get all the timers and now you also want them to hold Magics (unofficial!) and use videotapes? How on earth can you collect the necessary funds for this? And then you propose videotaping it from multiple angles, requiring more cameras.

Yeah, very good idea.

Oh, and before I post this, one more question: how can you make time to judge the slow-mo replays? Many competitions are already stuffed with events running over a complete weekend 9-to-5.

Yeah, I realized that, Like I said

True, it was a raw idea to begin with.... and yeah, now that I think about it is is too complicated and costly

unless you missed the whole conversation, (end of page 3 to beginning of page 5) This was already convinced. Also I said the time would come during the blind events, cause that takes up a lot of time too...