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New Homepage Released

pjk

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Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. Please keep the feedback coming. Suggested changes will happen overtime, but I wanted to release something so I could get more feedback.

pjk: To be honest, I absolutely hate the new frontpage. Instead of feeling like a community, it feels like a (low-quality) journalistic outlet - the kind of place where paid writers produce clickbait articles, and other people click on them, read them, and discuss them in the comments. That is, the kind of place where the official content is far more valuable than users' contributions, and where articles' click counts literally pay the staff. I, and probably many others, am here for the forum - the place where regular users post information, videos, questions, etc. and then discuss it over the course of an entire topic. I'm not here for short blurbs about WRs, and I certainly never came here daily because of the interviews or podcasts. Perhaps you are planning to hire people to write articles about cubing, and make that the focus, but that would then be a very different site, and I don't really want to be part of the community on a site like that.
Think of it as an addition to the site, not at all replacing the forum. The old homepage offered little in terms of welcoming people to the site, introducing people to what it's about, and provided little in terms of content for the forum. The recent threads module that everyone mentions only listed the last few threads (from select forums), so it was hardly a good way to see what's going on. What's New and Today's Posts are far better, and we encourage people to use those. If those aren't sufficient, I will create whatever is needed to be sufficient, just give me feedback on why those don't work.

One of the things I had in mind going into this is that our community is relatively small, but it super super interesting. Pretty much everyone I've ever met is intrigued at least slightly by cubing. However, if you tell someone to go to speedsolving.com, they show up and are confused. The old homepage wasn't welcoming, nor exciting, and really provided little value when you think about it. The old homepage was out of date, and not scalable. While it did have the recent threads module, that was it, really. And that is simple to replace as there are already solutions for that.

While speedsolving is a community, there is so much more that can be done with the site than just a forum. Obviously you can use the forum as you did before and it will continually be improved, but I really think the community needs an outlet for news, stories, photos, videos, etc like most other communities have. The idea of this homepage isn't to make the forum go to dust, but actually grow it. Many people show up to the old homepage and say "what's this site about, I'm not sure". What is posted on the forum is only a fraction of the puzzle related stuff out there, and many people would prefer to look at something like the homepage rather than read a forum (hence why you see sports sites similar to this). As I said, the old homepage offered nothing really other than a recent threads module, which wasn’t welcoming, and wasn’t versatile at all which restricted future development. Additionally, vB (the software which runs the forum) has been going downhill for years, and the past homepage relied on it. Future plans would be to upgrade to a more modern software, but it has to be taken 1 step at a time.

In terms of content: right now it's just records/videos/interviews because that is all that was on the old homepage (which was horribly arranged and setup btw). The plan for the new piece of the site would be to provide more stories, articles, photos, etc. But it will take time and it will be a community project. It provides an outlet for cubing media, which really doesn't currently exist if you think about it, and I think it's one reason why cubing hasn't got more exposure. With an outlet done correctly, it could really change the community and lead to more competitors, more ideas, more sponsorship, etc. People wonder why cubing isn't getting as much sponsorship as other "sports", and I think part of it has to do with the lack of exposure to our community. At the end of the day the goal is to create a site where people can connect, learn, and share this hobby that we all enjoy.

I'm with qqwerf on this one. I'm here for the forums. One of my simple pleasures is how easy it was to type "www.speedsolving.com" and be greeted with all the latest random posts from people in the community. The front page is just highlights, and feels like a barrier I have to click through to get to the conversation I'm adore. Personally, I'll probably never look at the new homepage again, and https://www.speedsolving.com/old/index.php is not my default homepage for all my web browsers (work and home).

Full disclosure: I'm the type of person that hates change, in general. So hopefully someone with less anxiety about this sort of thing can weigh in.
Right now the current (new) homepage isn't super useful for active forum members, but that will hopefully change. I want to make it a community project where anyone can contribute content, and if it is worthwhile and good as decided by the moderators, it will get posted.

As for change: you're not alone, it's human nature. Every time something big changes, people complain because they aren't used to it. Note that the goal with the new homepage is to better the community overall and for the future.

Yeah, not liking the new style:

1. The same five threads seem to appear all over the place. This includes the Recent, Popular and Random thread containers on the page.
2. Some strange choices for Popular threads are appearing on the page. For example, I have Stefan Pochmann's interview from 2008 appearing in my Popular Posts.

Hopefully this will iron itself when the new layout has been going for a few weeks. The new front page is probably a bit more appealing to new visitors, but for current members it just adds an unnecessary step in order to get to the real forums and see what the latest news is.
1. Yes, those will get fixed as time passes, people use the site, and more posts are added. Right now those 5 are showing since it hasn't been used much yet.
2. Same thing as above. Right now many people are probably seeing the Pochmann interview and therefore it is "popular", but that will change over time.

As mentioned in another comment above, hopefully over time more people will contribute content and it will be interesting to read for both new members, and current forum members. The older homepage really offered nothing for current forum members either.

I feel like if something like this had been implemented at/near the begging, this would not be an issue. My issue is it feels like you're trying to change the scope of the website. It has become 90% forum, and 10% wiki. Updating the home page so dramatically just feels like you want it used differently. I love the way it looks, and provides functionality, I think it's to abrupt though.
Better late than never, right? Technology changes, how we share changes, and it's important to adapt. Note that the wiki and forum will remain mostly the same. The new homepage simply allows for an outlet of media that is produced through cubing, and makes it exciting to new people. The purpose of a forum is to discuss things, the purpose of the new homepage is to share things. I think having both is important. For example, MacRumors has done very well with it.

The main complaint seems to be that there is no quick access to newly updated threads, which is something I immediately missed as well. My solution, is to add a panel that holds links to all the newly update threads, similar to a mini old home page...[more]
Good tips and suggestions on the layout. Much appreciated. I can implement a recent threads piece on the homepage, but I'm unsure what the purpose of this is. It isn't useful for seeing all the latest posts, only the ones within the last hour (depending on the activity at the time). I want to encourage people to use better tools like the Todays Posts and the Whats New. They are made for that purpose.

The other thing I would do, which would be really, really quick, would be to point the Forums link in the header to the forum home page
If you click on the forums link, it already goes to the forum home. What do you mean exactly?

I like the old homepage to see what has most recently been posted in. I have used the What's New a bit. The homepage now shows no sign of it being a forum, if you ignore the navigation bar. The content on the new homepage favours the new features and co tent you've added. I'm sure you'll being making some small changes here and there. Also I never found the old homepage archaic. I've got so used to the old one, over the last five years.
For new users, if they browse the new homepage it will be clear there is a big community behind it. Time will tell I suppose.

Dont like it. It was much better when you saw new posts immediately when you entered the site.
Now I just see some news I already knew in weird box layout...
You saw new posts, but only the latest 20, neglecting certain forums. It was not at all a good way to see the latest posts on the forum. Many people seem to have issues with this, but it seems that most of those people don't use Today's Post or What's New, which are far better solutions.

I do think it's a bad thing, actually. I'm one of those people who think simpler and cleaner layouts are better. There is a lot of space wasted in white space, borders/margins/padding, unnecessary "0 Comments" links (remember, this is a forum, not a new media company :p), big "Read More >>" buttons, and of course images. Even the menus contain large images, which makes them take up a solid third of the screen when deployed.
Simpler and cleaner layouts are often better, I agree. But sometimes they aren't. We should try both and see. I am a big fan of the PhysicsForums site, and their Insight page for articles. However, cubing is quite different than just informational discussion. People are now becoming more known, people inspire others, and it's more like a sport than anything. Look at how finals are organized at competitions. Something with more visuals I think is more exciting for cubing (hence the new homepage).

Compare to http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/, where instead of having a semi-random 2D assortment of colorful blocks, they have their news posts in the middle and everything else in a fixed place. They have images when necessary, but don't force them in on every post, and since their reason for existing isn't to maximize their page views, they have put all of the text out in the open without a "Read More" button. Of course, since that's a site with its own game the updates (on tournaments, song releases, etc.) are a lot more meaningful, but I'm not suggesting we copy that any more than I'm suggesting we never change the old look of speedsolving.
Points taken. Note that saying the goal is to maximize page views makes it sound like I'm trying to make money regardless of what the community thinks. That isn't at all the case, and in fact, the site has made little profit over the course of 10 years. The goal is to bring more exposure to the community and allow us to more easily share our community with the world, but it is not financially driven at all.

My other big issue with the layout is that the entire homepage seems to be about WRs, interviews, and media article links, repeated over and over (seriously, I see Feliks's 5x5x5 WR five times and that's without even going into the menus) in various different sorting styles and groupings. The discussion is what makes this site worth going to, and the fact that it is barely even ON the front page bothers me. Have a place for announcements and interviews, by all means, but the newly updated or popular forum topics is what I really want to see.
As I quoted someone above, this is because it was just released. Long term is to have anyone in the community contribute articles, stories, ideas, thoughts for the community. The reason why right now you only see the above is because I can only do so much alone. Just like with the forum and the wiki, I've setup a platform which allows people to share.

It's still there now, if you know where to look. But it's, as you've said, "archaic". Will it still be there in a year, or a few? Or will the forum end up collecting dust in an obscure corner of the site, only used by the old farts who don't want to upgrade to the new way of doing things?
If the new homepage makes the forum shrink, I will change it. In fact, the end result of having an outlet for media would be to make the forum grow and bring more exposure to it. I'll do everything in my power and listen to everyone in the community to help the forum be what the community wants.

Over the last few years, the forum hasn't grown much at all, and we can only speculate as to why. Part of this is due to the culture of the forum, or people changing hobbies, etc. But also part of this is due to the lack exposure that the site gives newcomers. Back in the day everyone was welcome. Today people are often afraid to post. It is something that needs to be worked on.

Oh yeah, I guess I could pitch in a WIP mockup that I have yet to work on (overloaded with school and other coding stuff). It's super-makeshift, but it's what I sort of have in mind.
That is a nice idea. If you're interested in creating something like this, please let me know and I'd be glad to work with you on it.

I would like to make a final note in that while I do think this will help serve the community better in the long run, if it doesn't work it can always be changed or undone. You often never know until you try.
 
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Ranzha

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I, for one, welcome our new homepage overlords.

But seriously, I like the addition of the new homepage and would like to see it be consistently updated by more people than just pjk and mods. I'll be updating the Podcasts section with all CubeCast material, but that area will continually change as CubeCast regroups for 2016 (because we've really needed it).
 

biscuit

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If you click on the forums link, it already goes to the forum home. What do you mean exactly?

I meant what is now the old/index.php. I feel this is a much better page if you just want to see what is being discussed. I realize that not all threads get put on this page, but I really like how it works. Maybe that's just me how ever.

EDIT: Also, if not all threads being visible on the front page panel would be an issue, you could integrate all threads, just show a limited amount, and add a see more that takes you to the "what's new" or "todays posts" page.
 
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Joel2274

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I really like the new homepage, although when I went into it this morning, I couldn't find out how to get back here and I though my account was lost forever D:
 

IRNjuggle28

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Our community is small but interesting, as you said, and I find myself being quite content with it staying that way. Many of the changes you've implemented are aimed at increasing the number of people this forum caters to, and specifically making it appeal to people who would rather read/learn about cubing in a way more passive than posting. The changes make the forum more palatable to the people who know less and contribute less, as well as making it bigger. Neither sounds good to me. Perhaps it's a bit elitist of me, but I like that this forum is a relatively small number of cubers, and that the forum is as elite as it is. Trying to make the forum more appealing in this way that you have, and trying to make it a tool that grows the number of people who become interested in cubing, increases the size and decreases the quality of the forum. I've been on other forums where nobody knows what they're talking about, as well as forums that are so big that I don't recognize anyone by username and where posts disappear from the first page of a subforum after 10 minutes because the threads are coming so quickly and furiously. I sure hope this one doesn't turn into that.

I'm happy to see where the different style takes the forum and give it a fair chance before writing it off, and I actually like the front page fine! Just wanted to point out that your posts treat making the community much larger as well as making it somewhere that non-cubers/new cubers can go for news and guidance as objectively good things. I'm not convinced that they are. This is one of the smallest and most consistently skilled forums I've run into and I sincerely hope it continues to be both of those things.
 

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I don't care all that much about the new design but please add a link to the forum at the very top of the page. It took me several minutes of clicking on random articles to find one that was a forum thread.
 

ZeshaaK

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Loving the new homepage! I think it is great for newcomers and will hopefully encourage more people to join the community.

Personally I am only here for the recent random posts. As long as that page exists then I am happy!

Good Job! :tu:tu :tu
 

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It's in the menu, the link in "Forums" goes to https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/forum.php
Sorry. I should have specified that I was using a mobile browser. I just looked again and I finally spotted a barely visible hamburger on top of the cube. Once you click on the hamburger, you get the menu with a forum link. Ugh. I hate having to dig through menus to get to the primary function of a site.
 

pjk

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Please keep providing feedback and sharing ideas, it is all helpful. The more the better.

Our community is small but interesting, as you said, and I find myself being quite content with it staying that way. Many of the changes you've implemented are aimed at increasing the number of people this forum caters to, and specifically making it appeal to people who would rather read/learn about cubing in a way more passive than posting. The changes make the forum more palatable to the people who know less and contribute less, as well as making it bigger. Neither sounds good to me. Perhaps it's a bit elitist of me, but I like that this forum is a relatively small number of cubers, and that the forum is as elite as it is. Trying to make the forum more appealing in this way that you have, and trying to make it a tool that grows the number of people who become interested in cubing, increases the size and decreases the quality of the forum. I've been on other forums where nobody knows what they're talking about, as well as forums that are so big that I don't recognize anyone by username and where posts disappear from the first page of a subforum after 10 minutes because the threads are coming so quickly and furiously. I sure hope this one doesn't turn into that.
Cubing, twisty puzzles, and the forum have all changed as they grew. Everyone used to know everyone in the community. As communities grow, there are changes that happen, both good and bad. Bad being that there is more noise, everyone doesn't know everyone, and there is more work required to make it all work. The good being that there are more competitions, more ideas shared, more puzzles made and designed, and more opportunity for the "sport". 9 years ago we had this discussion and were talking about how we didn't think the community will grow more because everything about cubing had already been talked about. Many people were discussing limits and many didn't think sub-10 was possible, or sub-1 min BLD. Today we look back and it's crazy. We talked about how the forum was changing since it went from a Yahoo email list of less than 50 people to a forum with hundreds of members. Many changes are unforeseen, so you often just have to do what makes sense at the time and adapt over time with changes.

If you look at the forum today, it is much different. Everyone doesn't know everyone, there is more noise and often it's a hassle to deal with, but the outcome has been way more competitions, way more discussion and shared knowledge, the speedsolving wiki, huge improvements in times, a massive puzzle market with more puzzles than we know what to do with, careers for many cubers as well as sponsorships. You could probably debate that these aren't all good things, but I think most people would agree that cubing has moved forward over the years.

In addition to the growth that the community has had over the last 10 years, it's always been just a forum. There has never been an outlet to just conglomerate and share media. Look at all other sports that have a competitive and community aspect to them. They all have sites that share pictures, videos, analysis, etc, and there is a reason they do it. Why not have this for cubing?

Lastly, as I mentioned in a prior reply, why don't we welcome people to the community? It's an awesome hobby and I think we should be proud to share it. I'm not alone in thinking this.

With this said, the decision to make the new homepage as a way to share our hobby was made after talking and seeking feedback from as many people as I could. If it doesn't serve the intended purpose, then by all means we can go back and try something different.

I don't care all that much about the new design but please add a link to the forum at the very top of the page. It took me several minutes of clicking on random articles to find one that was a forum thread.
The issue with mobile I'll fix soon. I notice that the menu is hidden at the moment.

I meant what is now the old/index.php. I feel this is a much better page if you just want to see what is being discussed. I realize that not all threads get put on this page, but I really like how it works. Maybe that's just me how ever.

EDIT: Also, if not all threads being visible on the front page panel would be an issue, you could integrate all threads, just show a limited amount, and add a see more that takes you to the "what's new" or "todays posts" page.
The old homepage will stay live here. Well noted on the suggestions, thanks.
 

SenorJuan

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I investigated the 'unresponsive script' I mentioned in my earlier post. It's a .js file located at https(colon)//static.xx.fbcdn.net/...etc. This is a Facebook file, so it is presumably out of your control, anyway. While it's ultimately likely to be my browser, Google seems to tell me FB have a record of producing sloppy code.
 

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I rather like the new layout. I still of course will use the old homepage (because that's what I'm use to), but for newcomers, it is very easy for them to keep up with WRs and special events (I mean that's about 85% of what posts are here are about anyway. It's not like this is a dominate puzzle theory or algorithm discussion site), especially if they don't know about the subforums where they are first announced.

I was at first a little uneasy with it, but when I read PJK's post above, I saw it in a new light and appreciate it a lot more. :)
 

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Hate it. I have to click twice to get to recent threads, which is one of the main reasons of a forum.

IMO, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. AFAIK, nobody was complaining about the previous front page, so why change it to something new?

EDIT: Should be important that I changed my bookmark to the old homepage already, but sometimes it bugs out and brings me to the new one anyway.
 

Chree

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More feedback... just a thought really...

To a new user, the Forum no longer seems to be the primary function of www.speedsolving.com. In the past, it was obvious that this page is meant to be an interactive communications front for the speedcubing community. Now, at first glance, it just appears to be a news aggregation site. The primary function of SS is to bring the community together. And while that goal hasn't reportedly changed, that function seems less obvious.

I see this as both a good and bad thing. Some folks have expressed their frustration by the flood of newbies into the community over the last couple of years, and now that could be mitigated. But the obvious downside if for the newbies themselves. The best place to learn and grow is these forums. So if a newbie doesn't immediately see SS as a means of sharing and learning, they might go just a tad bit longer without ever knowing about such a valuable resource as the forums even exists.

But on another note, I've tried at least visiting the new front page from time to time. And I've enjoyed some of the articles. Especially the Jean Pons throwback. I think I'm going to enjoy seeing more ways that you guys wind up utilizing the new front page.

Edit: Do you think there's room to list The Cubing Show in the podcasts section? Those guys were fun to listen to.
 

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I think it looks great. I appreciate all the thought and effort that's gone into it, as well as the detailed explanations given.
I also enjoyed the Jean Pons throwback, I hadn't seen that before.

That said, I've already changed my bookmarks and I don't anticipate seeing the front page much.

A couple of thoughts:
-Once you're in forum-land, the speedsolving.com logo doesn't link to the front page, only back to the forums.
-I frequent another forum which has a similar style to the one you're going for, with lots of news and content and the forum as a sub-section of the site rather than the main focus. However, most people don't use it that way. So what they do is make a new thread for every new bit of content added, as well as having a "New Content Thread" (stickied) which is updated as well. That draws attention to it nicely, and ensures everyone gets the most out of it.
 
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