• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 35,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

My Cubing Journey

maticuber

Member
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
73
WCA
2009MACA01
I already know COLL recognition(whenever I start an alg set, I usually look through the cases and learn at least the basics of how to recognize them, which I did with CLL), and personally I'd just like to start on a ZBLL set and learn the best COLL algs along the way
Learn COLL first, there's no reason not to start there. Then you can probably go for 2GLL.
 

GenTheThief

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Messages
1,637
Location
Illinois, U.S.A.
WCA
2016GEEN01
YouTube
Visit Channel
Done with PLL(that took long enough). I guess I'll start learning ZBLL next, anything I need to know before jumping in?
As someone who knows 300+ algs of ZBLL, here are my thoughts:
*note that I've made a lot of the mistakes that I'm telling you not to make after being told not to make them, so maybe it hypocritical, maybe I'm passing on knowledge.*

Whatever your recognition system, make sure you can handle multiple angles. 4 could be ideal, but 2 that are a U2 away from each other is perfectly good enough. Baum-Harris is a good system, and you can apply it to any side. Roman's trainer has a link to a ZBLL doc that has a really good explanation of how to use it. I would recommend using that and learning two angles.

If you already know COLL recognition, you absolutely do not need to learn that set first. The only important part of it is the recognition; the algs won't help and OCLLs will work perfectly for all the cases that you don't know. I would suggest being able to predict headlights for PLL though.

If you don't go through COLL and learn the algs, you can just learn the 12 ZBLLs in each COLL set. I also liked to learn the cases that were really easy to recognize, like 2x2 blocks or T-perm blocks. You can also go across all the sets and learn things like 2GLL if you want to.

Absolutely learn the best algs and make sure that you review or solve with them frequently so that you don't forget them. Mirrors and inverses are often really good, but don't pass up other good algs because the mirror inverse is easier.

Everyone has their own order, mine so far has been more or less: COLL, 2GLL, some easy diag zblls across the board, T, Pi, U, and then I hope to finish H, L, S/As. Regardless of your order, I do think that learning Sune 2GLLs is totally worth it, but you can leave the rest of the set for last, but do learn it eventually.


Obviously, there are plenty of people who have successfully learned it, so they might have other, better advice, but I'm sure that I'm more qualified than most of the people weighing in so far. Anyway, best of luck learning it!
 

ProStar

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
3,521
Location
An uncolonized sector of the planet Mars
WCA
2020MAHO01
As someone who knows 300+ algs of ZBLL, here are my thoughts:
*note that I've made a lot of the mistakes that I'm telling you not to make after being told not to make them, so maybe it hypocritical, maybe I'm passing on knowledge.*

Whatever your recognition system, make sure you can handle multiple angles. 4 could be ideal, but 2 that are a U2 away from each other is perfectly good enough. Baum-Harris is a good system, and you can apply it to any side. Roman's trainer has a link to a ZBLL doc that has a really good explanation of how to use it. I would recommend using that and learning two angles.

If you already know COLL recognition, you absolutely do not need to learn that set first. The only important part of it is the recognition; the algs won't help and OCLLs will work perfectly for all the cases that you don't know. I would suggest being able to predict headlights for PLL though.

If you don't go through COLL and learn the algs, you can just learn the 12 ZBLLs in each COLL set. I also liked to learn the cases that were really easy to recognize, like 2x2 blocks or T-perm blocks. You can also go across all the sets and learn things like 2GLL if you want to.

Absolutely learn the best algs and make sure that you review or solve with them frequently so that you don't forget them. Mirrors and inverses are often really good, but don't pass up other good algs because the mirror inverse is easier.

Everyone has their own order, mine so far has been more or less: COLL, 2GLL, some easy diag zblls across the board, T, Pi, U, and then I hope to finish H, L, S/As. Regardless of your order, I do think that learning Sune 2GLLs is totally worth it, but you can leave the rest of the set for last, but do learn it eventually.


Obviously, there are plenty of people who have successfully learned it, so they might have other, better advice, but I'm sure that I'm more qualified than most of the people weighing in so far. Anyway, best of luck learning it!
Thanks a bunch! I've read the doc you mentioned, but I'm having a little trouble understanding the best way to recognize EP
 

GenTheThief

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Messages
1,637
Location
Illinois, U.S.A.
WCA
2016GEEN01
YouTube
Visit Channel
but I'm having a little trouble understanding the best way to recognize EP
However, recognizing the edges can be tricky. Dan Harris came up with a pretty good way
of recognizing this, and it is what I will be using here. I've adapted some of the different
cases to better suit me, but the core idea is all his.

Basically, there are four stickers you look at: FU, FUR, RUF, and RU. You are going
to determine the relationship between these stickers. Depending on the case you have, you
will either look at the relationship between FU and FUR-RUF and RU, or FU and RUF-
FUR and RU.

The first relationship is more common. For example, FU and FUR could be
the same color, while RUF and RU could be opposite colors. This case is denoted
as CO (Correct/Opposite).

The second relationship is less common and can be tricky to recognize at first, but it gets
easier with practice. These cases are denoted by an 'x', because the stickers you are recognizing
cross with each other. For example, if the case is OxO, that means that FU and RUF are opposite,
and FUR and RU are also opposite.

CxO and OxC are pretty tough to recognize, but this is the best way that I've found for me
to deal with them. Fortunately, the rest of the sticker relationships are very easy to recognize.
There are 12 ways the stickers can possibly be.
This is primarily used for ZBLL, but you can also apply this to PLL.

If you have a Ua Uperm, then from all angles the cases would be:

no auf: A/O (where the edge in FU and the corner in FUR are adjacent colors, and the edge in RU and the corner in RUF are opposite colors)
U auf: O/C (FU and FUR are opposite colors, RU and RUF are the same (correct, it forms a block) colors)
U2 auf: C/A (FU and FUR are the correct colors, RU and RUF are adjacent colors)
U' auf: A/A (or CxA) (FU and FUR are adjacent, RU and RUF are also adjacent colos) (or FU and RUF are the correct colors, RU and FUR are adjacent colors)

I hope this helps with the recognition system.
 

ProStar

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
3,521
Location
An uncolonized sector of the planet Mars
WCA
2020MAHO01
Basically I'm bad at inspecting(which is crucial in ZZ), so I decided to do a few CFOP solves for fun(I was planning on doing an Ao25 because it would bump my session over 1k solves) and was averaging low 17. It also felt much less straining on my energy, because I could effectively plan cross and not have to take(what seemed liked, actually takes me 15 seconds on average) a minute to plan EO. Then I got some amazing results, including a 12.34 Mo3 and 13.10 Ao5(both PBs). My ZZ Mo3 and Ao5 PBs are 15.00 and 15.69 respectively, and I got several averages below those results within about 70 solves. Probably will switch again to something(ZZ or something else(Petrus?)) in the future, so just be ready for that ;)
 

Owen Morrison

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
1,190
Location
Tennessee
WCA
2017MORR06
YouTube
Visit Channel
Basically I'm bad at inspecting(which is crucial in ZZ), so I decided to do a few CFOP solves for fun(I was planning on doing an Ao25 because it would bump my session over 1k solves) and was averaging low 17. It also felt much less straining on my energy, because I could effectively plan cross and not have to take(what seemed liked, actually takes me 15 seconds on average) a minute to plan EO. Then I got some amazing results, including a 12.34 Mo3 and 13.10 Ao5(both PBs). My ZZ Mo3 and Ao5 PBs are 15.00 and 15.69 respectively, and I got several averages below those results within about 70 solves. Probably will switch again to something(ZZ or something else(Petrus?)) in the future, so just be ready for that ;)
That's awesome!

Solving with other methods for a while helped me too, maybe just solving with ZZ dropped your CFOP times.
 

brododragon

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
1,976
Location
Null Island
Basically I'm bad at inspecting(which is crucial in ZZ), so I decided to do a few CFOP solves for fun(I was planning on doing an Ao25 because it would bump my session over 1k solves) and was averaging low 17. It also felt much less straining on my energy, because I could effectively plan cross and not have to take(what seemed liked, actually takes me 15 seconds on average) a minute to plan EO. Then I got some amazing results, including a 12.34 Mo3 and 13.10 Ao5(both PBs). My ZZ Mo3 and Ao5 PBs are 15.00 and 15.69 respectively, and I got several averages below those results within about 70 solves. Probably will switch again to something(ZZ or something else(Petrus?)) in the future, so just be ready for that ;)
I doubt that it was just because you're better at CFOP. I often take breaks from 3x3, and when I come back, I solve way better for the first day or so. It's probably just because you took a break from CFOP. But, by all means, switch to Petrus ;)
 

Sub1Hour

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
795
Location
43°38'42.8"N 115°59'35.1"W
I doubt that it was just because you're better at CFOP. I often take breaks from 3x3, and when I come back, I solve way better for the first day or so. It's probably just because you took a break from CFOP. But, by all means, switch to Petrus ;)
I mean its not like it hurts to use a different method for a while, I think that trying to use Petrus for FMC/OH (I gave up on OH sorry brodo and pq) helped me a lot with Bálint Blocks for mega since its similar principles.
 
Top