Martín Telésforo "4.41 single" DNF - Perry Open, Mexico

[aceofspades98]

No, he only came in second or third.

 

[Skullush]

IIRC a few years ago when the record was 7.08, a time for one of the solves at a certain competition in Mexico was accidentally put into WCA as 6.xy instead of 16.xy and the Mexican community kind of went along with it saying he got a LL skip and he was exceptionally fast at F2L. Tried searching for a thread about it, because I remember a thread, but I can't find it unfortunately. The time was changed shortly after though

This whole situation reminds me of that. So if my memory serves me right then this isn't the first time something like this has happened

 

[Andreaillest]

IIRC a few years ago when the record was 7.08, a time for one of the solves at a certain competition in Mexico was accidentally put into WCA as 6.xy instead of 16.xy and the Mexican community kind of went along with it saying he got a LL skip and he was exceptionally fast at F2L. Tried searching for a thread about it, because I remember a thread, but I can't find it unfortunately. The time was changed shortly after though

This whole situation reminds me of that. So if my memory serves me right then this isn't the first time something like this has happened

I don't remember this happening, but prank or not; I'm afraid that these two situations will make the Mexican community look bad. I have doubts about this being a legit solve and am calling major ish. If by some miracle this solve is real; then congratz are in order I guess. :/

 

[Derads]

It seems everything was done right, the scramble was well-made, but the competitor has some antecedents of lies and fake solves on the mexican forum, unofficial solves but still, I'm not blaminc him directly cause I wasn't at the competition nor saw anything but this is very suspicious.

 

[TMOY]

What I find extremely odd is that in Felik's and Mat's WR videos, the applauding goes for just 15-30 seconds, and it's usually just clapping. In this guy's video, all the video is JUST cheering and applauding for over 2 minutes. And the cheering was as if it were at sports game. Everyone was chanting his name, whistling, and clapping. Everyone surrounds him, when in the 2 previously mentioned videos, only maybe 3-5 people surround him. Seems staged to me. :/

And in addition, the competition seems to have completely stopped, the other competitors don't seem to care about their own official solves anymore and just want to cheer together for several minutes. Sure. I've seen a number of WRs being broken at the comps I've attended, including Mats' 3^3 WR, and I've never witnessed anything like that. This is definitely a prank.

 

[whauk]

imo you cant refer to the second solve when arguing about turning speed. he might be so happy about breaking the WR that his hands got shaky and therefore he couldn't turn fast anymore. and probably he didnt care about his other times anymore.

And in addition, the competition seems to have completely stopped, the other competitors don't seem to care about their own official solves anymore and just want to cheer together for several minutes. Sure. I've seen a number of WRs being broken at the comps I've attended, including Mats' 3^3 WR, and I've never witnessed anything like that. This is definitely a prank.

but imagine a competition where nobody expects a world record. suddenly the competition got important, the country got important. they are maybe just too proud of him/their country. and we also all agree that this was not "normal". and if sth unnormal happens it will attract people.

however things that make me suspicious are:
-the table is full of stuff in the video... nobody would do an official solve there and why should people put stuff there right after the world record?
-the cube isnt solved on the "WR picture". (however a pyraminx is) why should someone have scrambled it again?
-people tend to get fast times by spamming tps or having lots of suddenly solved pieces, not by "improvising"

the rest was mentioned often enough.
btw it usually takes up to a week for official results to be on the WCA page. this time probably even longer because of this issue. there is no reason to conclude something of this.

 

[Hyprul 9-ty2]

IIRC a few years ago when the record was 7.08, a time for one of the solves at a certain competition in Mexico was accidentally put into WCA as 6.xy instead of 16.xy and the Mexican community kind of went along with it saying he got a LL skip and he was exceptionally fast at F2L. Tried searching for a thread about it, because I remember a thread, but I can't find it unfortunately. The time was changed shortly after though

This whole situation reminds me of that. So if my memory serves me right then this isn't the first time something like this has happened

It was a 67.XX that was accidentally put in as 6.XX. I don't remember the Mexican community claiming it was legit and that (she) was very good at F2L though

 

[Bob]

It was a 67.XX that was accidentally put in as 6.XX. I don't remember the Mexican community claiming it was legit and that (she) was very good at F2L though

It was a 16.xx that was accidentally put in as 6.xx. I remember because I uploaded those results and got yelled at afterwards.

 

[Tim Reynolds]

Hi everyone,

The WCA Board and IAC are in active discussion with Uriel, who was the delegate at this competition. Please bear with us.

There is not much that I can say right now, except that a 4.41 second solve was submitted in the official results, and that this is not believed to be a data entry error.

We will provide more information when it is appropriate to do so.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[ryanj92]

I have a hard time believing this is real. The ONLY other sub 5 i have heard about is feliks' 4.68 and that was LUCKY!!! I doubt that it is real but if it is then i'm injecting 25cc of lube into my hard drive.

Alex Lau has done several sub-5 solves at home Also see here and here

(copies my comment from the other thread)
WR cheating is nothing new to the WCA (see Rowe Hessler's BLD WR disqualification, and Castillo's clock WR disqualification), I just hope someone comes forward and sets the record straight soon, if it is indeed fake. As the WCA organisation that has to put a lot of trust in its members to keep its integrity, it pains me to see things like this happen...

 

[KongShou]

Oh they opened this thread again, I would like to express that if this does become the world record then cubing is completely ruined for me. The wr should only be held be someone who worked hard and deserved it. And someone who is extremely gifted and talented, like faz mats 5BLD, not a randomer with a suspicious sub5 single and 18s average

 

[ryanj92]

Oh they opened this thread again, I would like to express that if this does become the world record then cubing is completely ruined for me. The wr should only be held be someone who worked hard and deserved it. And someone who is extremely gifted and talented, like faz mats 5BLD, not a randomer with a suspicious sub5 single and 18s average

Sadly that's not how records work... the hard work and talent however does tend to evoke respect within the community, which judging by the overwhelming reactions here, has not been earnt here.

 

[Kirjava]

a 4.41 second solve was submitted in the official results

so it's now gone from a prank to cheating

if this was a case of a misscramble and the solver never owns up to it, is there any way to prove it isn't legit?

 

[Faz]

is there any way to prove it isn't legit?

I think that's the main issue, how much evidence should the competitor need to give in order to claim the world record in this situation? It doesn't seem like he'll be able to reconstruct it at this stage.

 

[JF1zl3]

The 3x3 average IS all that matters.

Whether this guy's solve is legit or not shouldn't affect your opinion on the validity of cubing. You should come across the fact that easy scrambles, and EXTREMELY easy scrambles happen, that's why people put L single and NL single when they are posting their PBs. There have been hundreds of competitions with thousands of competitors, it is irrational to think that something like this couldn't actually happen through pure chance of truly random scrambles. Although I personally agree that it is fake, my point is that this will almost certainly happen again and be legitimate by a sub-10 solver that most people aren't as familiar with as they would be faz or 5BLD or valk. And there will be speculation, and there will be suspicion, and there will be haters and disbelievers, but it will ultimately be proven legit. Or not be proven, but either way it will happen and be approved by the WCA board. However, that is his LUCKY single, he still has 4 more solves to do, and unless he gets 4 more EXTREMELY lucky solves, his average will reflect his skill much more accurately. And since the best and worst times are omitted and the remaining 3 become mo3, his L single isn't even factored into the average.

 

[Blablabla]

This guy became known in the Mexican community for his fake solves a couple of years ago.

 

[Kirjava]

View attachment 2873

Honestly, this should be good enough for the WCA to remove the time.

This judge was not following the proper procedure which calls the validity of the times into question.

 

[PeelingStickers]

Having never competed, what's proper procedure? Looks like a piece of paper with two (vastly different) times on. To my untrained eye.

The judge and competitor must sign their names AFTER a solve to prove it's validity. Used to prove DNF's, +2's did happen. Oh and 3x3 single world records.

 

[Escher]

I'm not sure why Tim's post hasn't been the last in this thread. It contains all the information that the cubing community needs to know right now. Anything else is speculation, and people are inconsiderate of the fact that by WCA delegates and board members reading this forum, their opinions on the matter will have been coloured, and thus they can be less confident in their decision making.

Please for the love of god close this thread; it can only have a negative bearing on the discussion. If anybody has relevant information (such as attachment 2873) then it ought to be submitted to the WCA board - not here.

Also, there have been multiple sub 5s, and several sub 4s. When people reach 8-9tps they are obviously going to hit those times, since they'll encounter a 30-odd move speedsolve solution at some point.

 

[qqwref]

I'm running J-perm (in 4 positions on each of U and D), plus the scramble, on Cube Explorer. A short solution would mean that, once the scramble is applied, there is a short way to solve the cube into a J perm. There are no solutions on any of the 8 scrambles shorter than 17 moves, though. So this guy would have to be "improvising" at least 17 moves, plus a J-perm, in that time. I'm not sure he's capable of that, no matter the luck, if he didn't know the scramble beforehand.

EDIT: For example, one of the solutions was D' R U B2 R L F' U2 L D' F2 D B' L' D2 U' F2 (17f*), so we can solve the scramble F2 D2 B2 F2 R F2 L' D2 B U B2 R' F2 U' F' D' L D2 with x2 U' R D F2 R L B' D2 L U' B2 U F' L' U2 D' B2 [J perm].