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Martín Telésforo "4.41 single" DNF - Perry Open, Mexico

Do you think this 4.41 time should count as WR?

  • Yes (it should count)

    Votes: 13 3.8%
  • No (it should not count)

    Votes: 117 34.6%
  • Up to the WCA, but hopefully Yes

    Votes: 5 1.5%
  • Up to the WCA, but hopefully No

    Votes: 188 55.6%
  • Do not care

    Votes: 15 4.4%

  • Total voters
    338
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Pro94

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I think Ron posted his times just to show that he's still averaging around 16-17; because many people took his 17.00 avg. as a proof against him without any real evidence.

Also his results "were" not "are" so anything is official yet.
 

mati rubik

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When I did my official 9.50 my avg was like 17, and in the final my avg was 14-ish, when your avg is 13+ weird things happens.

I have my opinion, but I'm waiting for WCA board decision.
 

sneaklyfox

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That's a 16.63 average, so he improved his official average but not by much.
That average is what I would have expected. You can't always tell if someone will improve very much in a year if they've only gone to one competition, but since he had attended at least least two competitions, you could estimate that he wouldn't improve THAT quickly because the difference is not that great between 2011 and 2012.

Sorry if this doesn't contribute to the thread.
 

windhero

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I'd love to see this guy do an average of 25 or even 12 of sub1 J-perms. J-perms are easy, sure, but I don't even believe he can manage to constantly sub1 a J-perm. Then add the fact that he had an OLL skip which atleast disorients me. If he could pull of an average of 25 sub1 j-perms, I might REMOTELY consider that this is in any way possible. If not, not a chance.
 

cubecraze1

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I'd love to see this guy do an average of 25 or even 12 of sub1 J-perms. J-perms are easy, sure, but I don't even believe he can manage to constantly sub1 a J-perm. Then add the fact that he had an OLL skip which atleast disorients me. If he could pull of an average of 25 sub1 j-perms, I might REMOTELY consider that this is in any way possible. If not, not a chance.
Why would an average of 25 convince you? Even one sub 1 j-perm would show you that he is capable of doing so, even if it isn't on every solve.
 

EMI

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but if it takes him 25 attempts to get 1, then he defiantly didnt get one in an official solve 3 seconds after he started the solve (shaking hands and stuf)
Well obviously he cannot be sure if it was really sub1 (as there is no video). What he propably meant was that it felt very fast.
 

windhero

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Why would an average of 25 convince you? Even one sub 1 j-perm would show you that he is capable of doing so, even if it isn't on every solve.
Simple probability. What are the odds of a guy that does a sub 1 j perm out of 25 solves to do one in a competition compared to a guy that constantly does sub 1 j perms? No luck involved, just pure skill. I'm fairly sure he doesn't have it.

If you read between the lines my point is how lucky can a guy get during one single solve? XXX-cross, OLL skip AND an exceptionally fast J-perm? Hell no.
 

Ninja Storm

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Simple probability. What are the odds of a guy that does a sub 1 j perm out of 25 solves to do one in a competition compared to a guy that constantly does sub 1 j perms? No luck involved, just pure skill. I'm fairly sure he doesn't have it.

If you read between the lines my point is how lucky can a guy get during one single solve? XXX-cross, OLL skip AND an exceptionally fast J-perm? Hell no.
There have been thousands of solves in the WCA. Perhaps even millions.

While it is very unlikely that this happened, people must consider the fact that once in a while people do get these crazy solves. Your biases don't necessarily validate your personal beliefs. Posts like this should not happen until the WCA makes an official statement. If in fact he is cheating, then it would be fine to say that he can't achieve what he said he did.
 

TMOY

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There have been millions of solves done at home by cubers. Perhaps even billions.
How many of them have ever gotten, honestly and with correct scrambling, a solve 4 times faster than their average involving a triple X-cross + R U R' + J-perm or anything equivalently lucky ? Never heard of any one for the moment...
 

windhero

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There have been thousands of solves in the WCA. Perhaps even millions.

While it is very unlikely that this happened, people must consider the fact that once in a while people do get these crazy solves. Your biases don't necessarily validate your personal beliefs. Posts like this should not happen until the WCA makes an official statement. If in fact he is cheating, then it would be fine to say that he can't achieve what he said he did.
Nope. Just nope. There are infinite scenarios and infinite ways to examine a cube and then execute a solve. I just dont trust that a guy who has 17-18 averages to even have a lookahead or reaction times fast enough to get a sub 5 sec solve. It's a human being we are talking about, not some machine that solves cubes. There is just no way he would just be cool after getting a scramble for XXX-cross, an easy last F2L pair, an OLL skip and THEN execute a J-perm in sub 1. I'm sure he could replicate this and solve the cube that fast, but I also feel it hard to believe that anyone would have the nerves to just disregard all that happened in a competition and keep on solving. Ofcourse its possible. Im not saying its not. I'm just saying its just as likely that a unicorn would've flown inside and shat a golden brick on the table after the solve.

Hell, even noticing an easy cross during inspection disorients some people.
 

Logiqx

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Slight mis-scrambling can be very significant. I've had a cross skip and LL skip in the same solve (entire solve was ~16 moves for the F2L) and it was due to a slight mis-scramble. This could eventually happen in competition even with a correctly scrambled cube and would result in a record that is nigh on unbeatable. Perhaps "single" shouldn't be about the easy / lucky / invalid solves and should instead be the fastest solve which isn't discarded from Ao5?

This significantly dampens the effect that luck plays in a small cube "single". Data from the WCA shows that Felix is the only guy with sub-7 singles counting towards an official Ao5 (6.88 in 2011 and 6.91 in 2013). He holds the top 6 results on this basis and they the others are 7.0x results. Several lucky guys would drop down the rankings and several talented guys would move up (e.g. Alex / 5BLD). Perhaps this is a better indicator of the worlds best and the average guy on the street?

This idea also has a significant effect on 2x2 singles where the best counting times are circa 1.7 seconds and not due to 4 move solutions.

Anyway feel free to shoot it down with "luck is not a crime", etc. :)

p.s. What Martin says doesn't stack up. I'm not implying that he could have struck it lucky based on the description of his solve or his skill level.
 
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Michael45764

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Over 300 posts have been deleted over the last few days. About 100 were deleted just last night. Thread clean-ups take a while, especially since there have been about 5 instances of them here. :p

IMO it's very important that this thread is readable and easy to search through, since it has an impact on the WCA's decision.
You want the thread to be easily searchable and easy to read because it has an impact on the WCA's decision.

So you delete posts to achieve your goal which is essentially deleting and silencing posts that argue contrary to your opinion of what really must have happened to influence the WCA in your direction.

Got it.
 

Noahaha

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You want the thread to be easily searchable and easy to read because it has an impact on the WCA's decision.

So you delete posts to achieve your goal which is essentially deleting and silencing posts that argue contrary to your opinion of what really must have happened to influence the WCA in your direction.

Got it.
I don't think that's what's going on. I think the goal is to keep the productive posts and eliminate the side conversations and useless conjectures.
 

kcl

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Perhaps "single" shouldn't be about the easy / lucky / invalid solves and should instead be the fastest solve which isn't discarded from Ao5?

This significantly dampens the effect that luck plays in a small cube "single".
This is actually really smart. Or possibly if they had a separate category for each...
 

qqwref

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You want the thread to be easily searchable and easy to read because it has an impact on the WCA's decision.

So you delete posts to achieve your goal which is essentially deleting and silencing posts that argue contrary to your opinion of what really must have happened to influence the WCA in your direction.

Got it.
Conspiracy much? They're just deleting the posts that don't add anything new to the discussion. Not that I've seen anyone provide a convincing piece of evidence FOR the WR anyway...
 
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