[Help Thread] Hoya Discussion

[TDM]

For anyone using Hoya5/Hodder/whatever you call the 5x5 method where you solve three (L/R/B) cross pieces, then the back two slots, then finish like normal: have you tried AvG's edge pairing method? Having the back two slots already solved makes it very easy to look ahead during edge pairing. I just switched and my first three solves were PB single/Mo3.

 

[Chenkar]

For anyone using Hoya5/Hodder/whatever you call the 5x5 method where you solve three (L/R/B) cross pieces, then the back two slots, then finish like normal: have you tried AvG's edge pairing method? Having the back two slots already solved makes it very easy to look ahead during edge pairing. I just switched and my first three solves were PB single/Mo3.

No I have not, but I should look into it when I replace my rubik's brick

 

[MarcelP]

Does anyone know of a solution guide to paring edges for 5X5 like this one: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/hoya/

 

[Chree]

Does anyone know of a solution guide to paring edges for 5X5 like this one: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dadams/hoya/

http://meep.cubing.net/l2e.html

That's where I got my L2E algs. Kris DeAsis's site.

For the majority of them, if you do the alg in the U Layer, Cross is preserved. But a lot of the time your L2E are in Front F2L slots. For those, I'll usually rotate (z x or z' x), do the alg, and then restore Cross. You'll wanna experiment with the to see which ones are most easy to execute and have the easiest to fix cross.

I still haven't learned the N's or Chess. Instead I flip an edge and do 2-Swap or Checkers instead, which is lazy, I know.


Edit:

http://sarah.cubing.net/5x5x5/l2e

Sarah Strong's site is another good resource. Most of the algs are the same though. She also grabbed some algs from bigcubes.com (Frank Morris), but in general I prefer Meep's.

 

[~Adam~]

[Help Thread] Hoya Discussion

Most just require you to rotate, perform, then U2.

I say most because I thought 1 of my algs required 2 moves to correct the cross but I'm having trouble remembering which (if any) do.

 

[Chree]

There are a couple, that are awesome algs if they're in the U Layer. Like My favorite P-Parity, Rw2 F2 U2 Rw2 U2 F2 Rw2.

But if it's in the F layer you have to do z x {P Parity} F2 U2 (to restore cross).

 

[~Adam~]

[Help Thread] Hoya Discussion

Goes to do alg on the 5x5 he is restickering.

Edit - finishes stickering, performs alg and adds to cube knowledge. I only knew (with tredges on FL and FR) Uw2 Rw2 F2 u2 F2 Rw2 Uw2. (u2 is just the slice)

But mine does preserve cross =D
(By mine I assume I got it from bigcubes years back)

Edit again - I just realised the using Rw2 B2 Lw U2 Rw'... OLL parity alg is probably quicker to R U R' onto U than rotate, alg U2 rotate back.

 

[~Adam~]

Does everyone typically solve the cross tredge they are working on or if there is an awkward piece do you often switch to a new tredge and come back to it?

 

[Chree]

Does everyone typically solve the cross tredge they are working on or if there is an awkward piece do you often switch to a new tredge and come back to it?

I very often switch to a new cross tredge if I can do something quick and easy with it. Sometimes working on the new tredge gives me time to spot the last piece of the first tredge.

But more often I'll just start throwing down random pieces, especially ones that already have 2 (or, hopefully, 3) tredge pieces paired up. Like if I have Green on FD and I spot the Blue cross tredge already finished, I'll place it in the back slot with a B2 if it's oriented, or R B R' / L' B' L if it's not.

I do this on 4x4 far less often, but still occasionally.

 

[~Adam~]

[Help Thread] Hoya Discussion

I don't have that option on 4x4 since I insert 1 of each cross edge as efficiently as possible before finishing them. I've been inserting pairs randomly on 5x5 but try to finish a tredge before moving on. I'll try leaving tough ones and see how it goes.

 

[Chree]

I do that on 4x4... sometimes.

As much as possible I try to finish the whole dedge at once for 4x4. There are a lot of times you can quickly place both with one "alg" or take advantage or empty slots to set up easier cases. I also take advantage of empty slots on 5x5, but usually wind up just solving the pieces that I see first one at a time. I'm trying to get more efficient though. And having to do up to potentially 2 or 3 sweeps through the cross, only solving 1 piece at a time, really isn't that efficient.

The biggest change between being a sup2 solver and sub2 solver for me (other than the AoChuang) was being more efficient. Having better centers had a much bigger impact, but saving moves during the cross is also saving me lots of time. And I can usually come up with more efficient solutions if I'm not worried about preserving incomplete tredges/dedges.

 

[MarcelP]

http://meep.cubing.net/l2e.html

That's where I got my L2E algs. Kris DeAsis's site.

For the majority of them, if you do the alg in the U Layer, Cross is preserved. But a lot of the time your L2E are in Front F2L slots. For those, I'll usually rotate (z x or z' x), do the alg, and then restore Cross. You'll wanna experiment with the to see which ones are most easy to execute and have the easiest to fix cross.

I still haven't learned the N's or Chess. Instead I flip an edge and do 2-Swap or Checkers instead, which is lazy, I know.


Edit:

http://sarah.cubing.net/5x5x5/l2e

Sarah Strong's site is another good resource. Most of the algs are the same though. She also grabbed some algs from bigcubes.com (Frank Morris), but in general I prefer Meep's.

Thanks Chris. I ment like the ones in your video http://youtu.be/lQzDc8ik4WU?list=UUGr4YfLJQkMOfNrUlgutt0g That is one awesome 5X5 Hoya video btw I think I know most cases now. No need to have them written somewhere.

 

[Nilsibert]

I'm still not sure what to do with 5x5. I've been using normal reduction since I started, however I'm still slow(barely sub3). Hoya on 5x5 is fun in a way, but to me it's also a bit "messy" and it doesn't seem very efficient. Has any real comparisson been made? I.E comparing substeps and their usual times/movecounts?

 

[Chree]

Thanks Chris. I ment like the ones in your video http://youtu.be/lQzDc8ik4WU?list=UUGr4YfLJQkMOfNrUlgutt0g That is one awesome 5X5 Hoya video btw I think I know most cases now. No need to have them written somewhere.

Glad to hear it. I hope to get another video out soon. First I have to write down everything I want to cover in it. There are a few more tredge cases I wanted to talk about. And then go into some more detail about approaches during the cross.

I'm still not sure what to do with 5x5. I've been using normal reduction since I started, however I'm still slow(barely sub3). Hoya on 5x5 is fun in a way, but to me it's also a bit "messy" and it doesn't seem very efficient. Has any real comparisson been made? I.E comparing substeps and their usual times/movecounts?

I haven't. I think TDM and Robert did it for 4x4 vs Yau Method, and each of them found that Yau was more efficient. But that'd be a lot of moves to count for 5x5.

I tried a Redux session about a week ago, just for fun. I was at least 15 seconds slower than with Hoya. A lot of my time was eaten up because I wasn't used to looking for edges that way anymore. I was reminded at that point that the biggest advantage of Hoya is not efficiency... as even Jong-Ho has pointed out... it's the lookahead during L8E.

I had sincere doubts that I would remain a Hoya user on 5x5 for a while. But as I practiced, got used to it, and developed better habits, I became very happy with it. Hopefully the same will happen for you.

How do you like the AoChuang, Nils?

 

[Nilsibert]

Yeah that's true about the look ahead part. But you don't store edges in FL and FR right? I might have to give it another chance.

The AoChuang is pretty good, although it has its flaws; it's a bit unstable feeling and it can pop. Also I get pretty nasty jams once in a while, but that's also a problem with my turning accuracy which still is pretty terrible, I hope I get better with practice.
Another thing is that it's a little bit too slow and I'm not sure how to fix that. It doesn't glide as smoothly and easily as the Aosu for example. However, it has gotten a bit better over time so it might just be a matter of breaking it in.
Overall I surely prefer it over my modded SS. All the pieces are rounded which makes for much smoother turning because of the minimal reverse corner cutting it provides.

 

[~Adam~]

[Help Thread] Hoya Discussion

I build 2 tredges as quickly as possible then store them in BL and BR. Is this standard practice?

 

[Chree]

To Nils:
I hear ya on the unstable part. Except mine is still really fast, despite tightening it to prevent pops. But my Aosu was terrible and popped all the time, so I had to tighten it to the point of sluggishness. Maybe I'm just really used to that now.

To Adam:
Are those cross tredges that you store in BL and BR? F2L tredges? Or just arbitrary tredges? And do you do anything with orientation as you build/store them?

 

[~Adam~]

Just arbitrary tredges after cross and L2Cs.

I've only been solving with Hoya on 5x5 for the last 100 solves or so (mostly untimed) and I'm down to my global redux average of 2:15 now.

 

[Nilsibert]

To Nils:
I hear ya on the unstable part. Except mine is still really fast, despite tightening it to prevent pops. But my Aosu was terrible and popped all the time, so I had to tighten it to the point of sluggishness. Maybe I'm just really used to that now.

To Adam:
Are those cross tredges that you store in BL and BR? F2L tredges? Or just arbitrary tredges? And do you do anything with orientation as you build/store them?

Strange, I never managed to pop my aosu once, and my tensions are such that the corner cutting is line to line. It's crazy fast. I think I may have overlubed my AoChuang, although the way it "catches" all the time if I turn a layer really slow would indicate the opposite. It's also tensioned to allow line to line cutting. How's yours do when it comes to corner cutting?

 

[Chree]

Strange, I never managed to pop my aosu once, and my tensions are such that the corner cutting is line to line. It's crazy fast. I think I may have overlubed my AoChuang, although the way it "catches" all the time if I turn a layer really slow would indicate the opposite. It's also tensioned to allow line to line cutting. How's yours do when it comes to corner cutting?

There's a flaw with the Aosu where on some batches, the small inner edge can come out of its track during Rw/U combos. And it's damn near impossible to just pop it back in. It always requires you to disassemble a whole quadrant to get it back in. So OLL parity was real scary for me for a long time.

My AoChuang popped a lot when I first got it, too, but corner cutting was slightly PAST line to line. After tightening it, I get just UNDER line to line. Same with my Aosu. Basically just forcing myself to get used to more accurate turning. And for both, the heaviest lube I use is 25ct shock oil with occasional drops of Maru.


And Adam, at first I thought you meant you were building those tredges BEFORE doing the cross... a la Hoya5/Hodder. I guess I mostly do what Aaron LoPrete did in his original Hoya on 5x5 tutorial, which is to build the first 4 tredges with freeslice, restore centers, then put arbitrary sovled tredges in BL and BR, then finish the last 4 in the front. It doesn't always wind up happening like that though. But yeah, I guess to answer your question: sometimes.