HK Now Store Official Thread - New Arrivals in May 2011

[Stefan]

Another questions : when you register an account on speed-solving or twisty-puzzles forums, do you need to agree on the forum agreements ?
if you refuse the forum agreements, will you able to register an account ?

So had Lightake agreed to the rules it broke? If so, then you have a case, and you really should've mentioned that...

 

[Clayy9]

So had Lightake agreed to the rules it broke? If so, then you have a case, and you really should've mentioned that...

No; starting today, they have to agree to the rules. Before, they didn't have to.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

I'm not buying any more cubes if this price fixing is in place!
Consumers can also set prices. If I don't like your prices, I will not buy. If we all do the same, I'm sure the prices will get lower!

 

[James Ludlow]

But if agreements to *lower* the price are also illegal, that reasoning doesn't make sense.

of course it does.

Tesco and Asda buy 1000 cubes at £10each, and Costcutter can only afford to buy 100 at £15each
Market minimums are given as £17.50.
If Asda and Tesco agreed to sell their product at £12.50 - still making the £2.50 that Costcutter would make selling at the minimum price permitted - then clearly, for Costcutter to remain competitive, they will make a loss.

Okay, I have picked random figures, but surely this makes sense?

 

[Stefan]

Tesco and Asda buy 1000 cubes at £10each, and Costcutter can only afford to buy 100 at £15each
Market minimums are given as £17.50.
If Asda and Tesco agreed to sell their product at £12.50 - still making the £2.50 that Costcutter would make selling at the minimum price permitted - then clearly, for Costcutter to remain competitive, they will make a loss.

But does that make the consumers pay more?

 

[Fred Bloggs]

It may force someone out of business and then the price is increased as there is no longer any competition.

 

[Zubon]

"In the United States, agreements to fix, raise, lower, stabilize, ....."
--Explain

This is not related to this issue but....Imagine that McDonald's and Burger King both agree to sell 20 cent hamburgers, wait until all other smaller burger chains go broke and them raise their prices back up and enjoy more market share. Can you not see how that could be illegal or immoral?

 

[Stefan]

Imagine that McDonald's and Burger King both agree to sell 20 cent hamburgers, wait until all other smaller burger chains go broke and them raise their prices back up and enjoy more market share.

That doesn't rely on price fixing, though. If McDonalds wanted this, they could just do it and then Burger King would drop their prices as well in order to stay in business. It's an issue independent from price fixing.

Can you not see how that could be illegal or immoral?

I can see people might declare it illegal, though I'm still not sure why. And no, I don't really see immorality there. Maybe because I gave up my idealism about the world a while ago.

 

[Zubon]

That doesn't rely on price fixing, though. If McDonalds wanted this.......

Still unrelated to the topic but...Imagine if all franchise owners of shell gasoline stands called each other up and organized
to drop their prices to 1 cent per liter from 10am on monday. They have a lot of money so they can afford to do this. Faced with the sudden loss of customers, all of the mom and pop, family run gasoline stands would be forced to close because they can't compete. Once the non-conspiring gasoline stands close, the conspirators can raise their prices to $100 per liter and motorists are forced to pay.
Extreme example but I think it is easy to understand.

 

[izovire]

Still unrelated to the topic but...Imagine if all franchise owners of shell gasoline stands called each other up and organized
to drop their prices to 1 cent per liter from 10am on monday. They have a lot of money so they can afford to do this. Faced with the sudden loss of customers, all of the mom and pop, family run gasoline stands would be forced to close because they can't compete. Once the non-conspiring gasoline stands close, the conspirators can raise their prices to $100 per liter and motorists are forced to pay.
Extreme example but I think it is easy to understand.

That is sort of an example of lightake. They can afford the thin profit margin due to the very large selection of products other than twisty puzzles. With a large customer flow why not lower the price even further to get more people? Eh?

 

[calvinfan]

So had Lightake agreed to the rules it broke? If so, then you have a case, and you really should've mentioned that...

Stefan, cheers ^^, you are on the way back home.
Mr. Dayan had spent several years on his designs for GuHong, Lingyun, LunHui, the coming Zhanchi, the coming Lingyun 2 and also Gem I, II and III.
He is going to build up a worldwide brand as Rubik and Meffert, not a brand of cheap cheap toys. We do appreciate his passion, contribution, heart and blood, particularly for speed cubing area.
Mr. Dayan had talked to Lightake in person about the pricing system, only he argeed the terms, he can get the cubes.
For Gem I and II, their prices are the official prices, but they trickily offer 10-15% coupon at the very begining and brand new which under-cutting all other Dayan retailers.
Mr. Dayan does not know English, but it does not mean that Lightake can play-around and bully him. When Mr. Dayan was extremely angry and stopped supplying him the cubes, he continue their prices and bullying Mr. Dayan with their stocks.
Please do respect Mr. Dayan and also Mr. mf8.

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

So lightake's supplies of Dayan cubes has got more expensive becuase they can't get any more, or becuase they have been forced to make them more expensive?

 

[demma]

Calvinfan, I'm not defending LT, but I think your arguments are a little bit personal against them. Did you read my previous post? I think this is simply a commercial issue because LT sells more than others, no way this is a matter of honour, respect, heart and blood, etc. Like I said before: if you sell to LT a cube for 10 dollars thats the value of the honor/work of Mr. Dayan. 15 dolars for a 333 cube is cheap cheap rubish? Did his honor get ripped off by 80 dollar cents disccount?

He is going to build up a worldwide brand as Rubik and Meffert, not a brand of cheap cheap toys.

Will he raise the prices up to win "honor"? Please explain it because if not, this sentence has no sense. Dayan gains the "honor" and respetc of the cubing world because of the quality of their cubes and designs, not because it's a respectable or honorable worldwide brand or their cubes are the most expensive around. Nobody think that Dayan cubes are cheap cheap toys,even if your main cube is a non Dayan. If this is some marketing/bussiness strategy I think is way too much for the cubing world, go and sell cheap cheap rubish for stupid prices to some hipsters and snobs.

Mr. Dayan does not know English, but it does not mean that Lightake can play-around and bully him.

This is way too much.

 

[Deleted member 12389]

In recent times, there have been a sharp increase in the prices of the price of guhong, lingyun, lunhui and the expected zhanchi.

If the cubes were meant to be at these prices, it would have been the most "expensive" at the time of guhong's birth - with costs of initial set up, 'invention', etc. Increasing price is (at least to all appearances) an attempt to cash in on a very popular cube. Nothing wrong with that as the market will always find a way to balance itself.

As we can see some consumers (like me) are not very happy. In fact I have decided to forgo the zhanchi - don't need it till I am able to sub10 (in my case, in another decade!) or get it as a collector item. It is more curiosity that got me forking out good money to try dayan's cubes.

I find it strange - if Mr. Dayan really wants to build up his brand, I thought the better way would be free market - sell at whatever prices he desires but allow the various competiting sale channels sell at whatever prices that would move his products quickly. He should really focus on his products instead of getting involved with the retailers.

 

[Stefan]

Stefan, cheers ^^, you are on the way back home.

I've been at home for a while... I can only guess this is a badly translated idiom

Mr. Dayan had talked to Lightake in person about the pricing system, only he argeed the terms, he can get the cubes.

Ok, that's helpful to know, essential to understand the situation. At first I thought you made up rules for your group and then tried to force them on an independent outsider as well. If they had agreed to them and broke them, that's something else. The coupons do look a bit sneaky now, though whether they actually break the terms is of course still impossible for us to tell without knowing exactly what they were. Anyway, I just hope your new terms work out well, so everybody is happy.