Happy New Year! Also, ZBLL Algorithms

xXzaKerXx said:
thanks for the hard work you did for all this algs. i was searching high and low all over the internet for ZBLLs but none were even complete, so just wanna say THANK YOU!!
Click to expand...

To be honest, that is the reason I made this sheet. At first I just wanted to learn ZB (almost exactly one year ago), but then I realized that there would be a huge algorithm barrier. Being around a minute back then, I slowly went through the Fridrich method, trying to get fast enough to make it worthwhile. I actually finished COLL before I finished OLL.

I have had absolutely no time the past week and probably won't have any real time the next 2 weeks, but I vowed that I would finish a complete ZBLL page before the end of 2009. With all the news of ZB in the forums back in November, I was really pressured into finishing this. So I did, even though I knew I wouldn't be able to use it myself for another month.

Just to let you guys know, comments like this make my day. Keep the feedback coming!
 
Ooooh!

Really?!
I'll list some cases right now!
(I just woke up)

R B2 U' F' U D L U L' U' D' F B2 R' (I hate this case soo much.)
U R2 B2 R F2 r2 U' L' U r' U2 l' F2 R2

U R' F' R B' L' R' F R F' L F B

R D L U2 L D' R D r2 F2 U' R2

Ummm, this is an odd request, I have lots of crap algs because I was lazy, but can you find the alg for the mirror of this case?:
U2 R2 F' R2 U R2 D' Y' R' U' D R' U R2 B2
 
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For: R B2 U' F' U D L U L' U' D' F B2 R'

I found: (R' U' D R' U2 R U2 D') (R2 U2 R' U' R2 U' R')

(Use your ring fingers to do the D moves of course...)


For: U R2 B2 R F2 r2 U' L' U r' U2 l' F2 R2

I found: (U' L U2 L' U') (R' U2 L U L') (R U) (R' U R)

(You could finish off by doing z' U L U' L U if you prefer)


For: U R' F' R B' L' R' F R F' L F B

I found: (U R U2' R' U' L U2 L' U') (x L2 U2 L' U2) x' (U' L')

(Don't ever move your left thumb until you get to the (U' L') part at the end ;))


For: R D L U2 L D' R D r2 F2 U' R2

I found erm...: L' (R perm) L

(Hehehe....)


And finally, for "the mirror of this case: U2 R2 F' R2 U R2 D' Y' R' U' D R' U R2 B2"

I found: (D R2' U' R2 U' R' U2 R U2') (R U D') (R U' R' U)

(Couldn't find much for this case :/...)
 
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Nice algorithms!


WHatttt!!!!
That case was that simple!!! o_o

Ughhh, :fp at myself, why didn't i realize that!!!


Thanks so much for the help! :D
 
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Robert-Y said:
Hey can you tell me some particularly bad cases which you can't find a good algorithm for? I would like to try and find some nice algorithms since I'm bored right now :p
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Most of Pi is just inverted H algorithms. H algorithms are pretty poor. Actually, everything but T and U could probably use some cleaning up. But if you really want to start, I would like help with H. I mirrored as much as I could for that case and got some awkward algorithms. Since it is the shortest set I think it might be better if the algs were nicer.
 
eastamazonantidote said:
xXzaKerXx said:
thanks for the hard work you did for all this algs. i was searching high and low all over the internet for ZBLLs but none were even complete, so just wanna say THANK YOU!!
Click to expand...

To be honest, that is the reason I made this sheet. At first I just wanted to learn ZB (almost exactly one year ago), but then I realized that there would be a huge algorithm barrier. Being around a minute back then, I slowly went through the Fridrich method, trying to get fast enough to make it worthwhile. I actually finished COLL before I finished OLL.

I have had absolutely no time the past week and probably won't have any real time the next 2 weeks, but I vowed that I would finish a complete ZBLL page before the end of 2009. With all the news of ZB in the forums back in November, I was really pressured into finishing this. So I did, even though I knew I wouldn't be able to use it myself for another month.

Just to let you guys know, comments like this make my day. Keep the feedback coming!
Click to expand...

it's the least i could do. btw, your formatting made ZBLL looked so much easier to learn because it's so organized.
 
Good job eastamazonantidote, great contribution!

Just learned my first ZBLL alg: R U2 R' U' R U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R ... I'll be looking forward to seeing it pop up in a solve (someday) :D
 
Cride5 said:
Good job eastamazonantidote, great contribution!

Just learned my first ZBLL alg: R U2 R' U' R U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R ... I'll be looking forward to seeing it pop up in a solve (someday) :D
Click to expand...

That brings up a question that bugged me when I was trying to go to sleep last night. What are the probabilities of each case?

I'm assuming that each of the 12 edge permutations have an equal chance of coming up. Corner permutation I'm not so sure about, because I get the same cases over and over again while some rarely pop up. For the actual orientation chance, those are pretty well known. I may add probabilities to the optimal algs. That is, after I have optimal algs.
 
Haha, I too wonder that question once.
I posted a thread about COLL probability so I could have a general idea, because i thought ZBLL probabilities was a bit much to ask for.
 
eastamazonantidote said:
Cride5 said:
Good job eastamazonantidote, great contribution!

Just learned my first ZBLL alg: R U2 R' U' R U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R ... I'll be looking forward to seeing it pop up in a solve (someday) :D
Click to expand...

That brings up a question that bugged me when I was trying to go to sleep last night. What are the probabilities of each case?

I'm assuming that each of the 12 edge permutations have an equal chance of coming up. Corner permutation I'm not so sure about, because I get the same cases over and over again while some rarely pop up. For the actual orientation chance, those are pretty well known. I may add probabilities to the optimal algs. That is, after I have optimal algs.
Click to expand...

The total number of ZBLL cases is:
3^3 * 4! * 4! / 2 = 7776

Allowing for AUF the number of cases is: 7776 / 4 = 1944

So the rarest cases will occur 1/1944 (~0.05%) of the time. This is the probability of the 'solved' case (ZBLL skip), or getting just the H-Perm (and an OCLL skip). I think these are the only two rarest cases but I may be wrong.

Most cases have symmetric equivalents, solvable with the same algorithm. These will have a higher probability, depending on how many symmetric equivalents they have.

I guess the simplest way to figure out the probability of each case is to do it hierarchically, so first find the probability of the OCLL case in question, then find the probability of the PLL case underneath. If the PLL case is not symmetric, then you need to divide by 4 because you're looking at the probability of it occurring from one specific angle. This is because the the OCLL case on top means AUF'ing the PLL case is not possible. For example, my first ZBLL (R U2 R' U' R U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R) is a Pi OCLL case, with a Ub-Perm PLL, so combined the probability is:

4/27 * 1/18 * 1/4 = 1/486
... dividing by 4 because U-Perm is not symmetric and Ub-Perm from each angle is a different case.

If however the case was a Pi OCLL case, with H-perm PLL underneath that, then the probability would be:
4/27 * 1/72 = 1/486
.. same probability, but different reasoning behind the calculation. H-perm-perm has 4-way symmetry, so there's only one way it can occur in relation to the Pi case.

A similar discussion on ZBLL probabilities is here.
Probabilities for OCLL cases are here
Probabilities for PLL cases are here

I hope that explanation made sense!
 
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That's the best Algs collection I have ever seen. However, it's a lot and might need a lot of time to learn. I hope when I get through OLL, I will have some time for ZBLL
 
Crystl said:
That's the best Algs collection I have ever seen. However, it's a lot and might need a lot of time to learn. I hope when I get through OLL, I will have some time for ZBLL
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment. It is a lot of work, and you have to memorize the algs much differently than for smaller sets. I wish you luck.

Just wait till I get alternative and optimal algs up. And recognition for the edge perm system. THEN, and only then, will it be the best. This is kinda the beta version.

And Cride5, thanks for the data. I'll think about it, calculate the cases, and (hopefully) put it up with the optimals, when I get them done. Also, about your PM, knock yourself out.
 
Daniel Que said:
Wow, very nice work!
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Thank you very much. The bump is great because I see people are still interested. I'll get going on some optimal algs eventually. Maybe by summer I'll have it done. I might to a ZBF2L doc as well. But that's for another time.

I have a question for 4Chan here (because he won't accept PMs): how much time did it take you to get an alg and the case to go together in your head (not quite instinctive like COLL but you know what I mean)? The first H COLL set (the Double Sune set) was pretty easy - only 4 algs to learn. The next set (F RUR'U'*3 F') was harder but I think I have it down pretty well. But after that my progress has gone downhill. With my schedule it gets harder and harder to find time to practice. All my cubing time is now dedicated to finding Jig-a-Loo or CRC and learning ZBLL algs. I know we use different recognition but I'm sure the issue is the same, as we have to recall the same amount of algs. In your early videos there was a huge pause time for recall. I'm getting frustrated because my COLL recognition is actually faster than my OLL recognition while my ZBLL recognition lags behind. I'm a perfectionist and really try to ingrain every single alg I know into my brain before moving on. While this works on smaller sets like OLL and PLL and COLL and even VHF2L, for ZBLL it just doesn't work. Hence the reason why it took me 1 month to finish 2 sets. Any advice? Were you this frustrated? How much time did you put in daily on learning algs?
 
As fun as learning 2.000 algs sounds, for someone that hasn't fully mastered techniques as partial edge control, x-cross, COLL and the like (and taking into account recognition time) is it really worth learning full ZBLL?

2-4k algorithms. Just wow.
 
UnAbusador said:
As fun as learning 2.000 algs sounds, for someone that hasn't fully mastered techniques as partial edge control, x-cross, COLL and the like (and taking into account recognition time) is it really worth learning full ZBLL?

2-4k algorithms. Just wow.
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Well, not quite that many algorithms. 501 for ZBLL, and with VHF2L you can survive with 32, though 64 has been more valuable in my experience. At the point you're at, no, ZBLL is not worth it. It really is a sub-20 method. At that point you can decide what kind of effort you're willing to put into learning cases. And I would argue that COLL is a requirement before you start ZBLL, and VHF2L before ZBF2L. If you have problems learning that then you should hold off for a while. Get your times down, get your technique down, and then decide if ZB is right for you.

On a side note, your bump makes it so that I have to start working on algs again...Look for an update in about a month and a half.
 
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