Giving up Cubing for Lent

[rubiknerd11]

Right when I saw this thread I KNEW that it would become a religous war so I figured that I would share my opinion on the subject. I'm Agnostic which means that I am not devoted to any religion. I believe that where you are determines what religion you are. If you are in the U.S. then you are most likely christian, if in India then you are probably Islamic, etc. My main belief though is that nobody knows how everything was created because if you did you would be GOD.

 

[jms_gears1]

The bottom line pretty much is: It's irrational to believe in something that has no evidence for it. Believing in God takes the same logic as believing in a big purple monkey awesome spider superman batman nintendo 64 killing machine that's 1000000 ft tall. They both have no evidence for their existence.

And if someone comes back with "that's what faith is for", or something...why would you devote your entire life worshipping and following something that you don't even know is true?

Evidence is subjective, in that you can interpret it how you like.
I believe as i stated above, that the very existence of this earth, of the universe, is proof that their is a sentient, intelligent designer.

Prove it. I see no evidence.

Prove what?
That I interpret the existence of the universe as proof that there is existence in god?

"...is proof that their is a sentient, intelligent designer."

Prove that. You made a statement, back it up.

Ok if you READ what i said, i said that i interpret the fact of existence itself as proof.
Since this is obviously how i INTERPRET there is no burden of proof...

@Innocence: If you believe in a literal 7-day creation I assume you also believe the world is ~6000 years old. In that case, would you say (using evidence from the Bible) that humans and dinosaurs coexisted at some point, or that dinosaurs never existed and the fossils are forgeries?

Isn't the Behemoth mentioned in the bible with the tail the size of a tree? Same with Leviathan...

Yes it does.

 

[Deleted member 2864]

Right when I saw this thread I KNEW that it would become a religous war

I actually think this thread is unusually civil. There is nothing that (I at least think so) is a hint of a flame war. I'd call this a debate rather than a forum war.

I'm getting sorta bored with this thread though... time ta pull out

 

[Johan444]

Ok if you READ what i said, i said that i interpret the fact of existence itself as proof.
Since this is obviously how i INTERPRET there is no burden of proof...

But why the christian God of all the Gods out there?
If our existence is your proof of an intelligent designer there must be other evidence that points at this one God especially.

I'm just curious, I can understand why one would belive in ID, but not in christianity to be honest.

 

[Muesli]

The bottom line pretty much is: It's irrational to believe in something that has no evidence for it. Believing in God takes the same logic as believing in a big purple monkey awesome spider superman batman nintendo 64 killing machine that's 1000000 ft tall. They both have no evidence for their existence.

And if someone comes back with "that's what faith is for", or something...why would you devote your entire life worshipping and following something that you don't even know is true?

Evidence is subjective, in that you can interpret it how you like.
I believe as i stated above, that the very existence of this earth, of the universe, is proof that their is a sentient, intelligent designer.

Prove it. I see no evidence.

Prove what?
That I interpret the existence of the universe as proof that there is existence in god?

"...is proof that their is a sentient, intelligent designer."

Prove that. You made a statement, back it up.

Ok if you READ what i said, i said that i interpret the fact of existence itself as proof.
Since this is obviously how i INTERPRET there is no burden of proof...

By the same logic I could interpret my 3x3 times to be 10 seconds every time, and if somebody asks for proof I will tell them that is how I interpret my times and thus I don't need to prove myself.

You see how frustrating that scenario would be?

 

[Dene]

If you are in the U.S. then you are most likely christian, if in India then you are probably Islamic, etc.

Lol really?

The way I read it, it's not stupid at all. I've seen it happen several times: You get brainwashed as a kid, live as a happy fundamentalist idiot for a while, some day ask yourself "Why do I believe all this when all those smart people I know don't?". You can't come up with any satisfactory answer, slowly start to realize it's all ********, then either a) get over it or b) have some kind of mental breakdown (there has to be a name for this; existential crisis?). If you never question anything, good for you; ignorance is bliss, as everybody knows. But if you do, the sooner it happens, the better; that'll make it more likely you manage to pull off option (a) and reduce the brain damage done and amount of time wasted.

If you base your whole life and world view on some very strong assumptions, questioning them is IMHO a very important thing to do.

But this isn't what he said at all. As far as I'm concerned, all that he said is that I am being an idiot because I do not believe that the next time I turn on my computer, it will set of a bomb and destroy the whole of the city that I live in, planted by insane islamic suicidists.

What you are saying is that it could have terrible consequences to devote your life to something you believe in with no evidence and without questioning it. This is, of course, completely different. And I agree with you, it could possibly have terrible consequences, as you stated. But then again, it could still have no consequences whatsoever. In fact, I'm going to assume that in most cases (most = majority, i.e. more than 50%) nothing happens at all. Most Christians that I am aware of go through life perfectly fine and never have major mental breakdowns.

 

[Dene]

The bottom line pretty much is: It's irrational to believe in something that has no evidence for it. Believing in God takes the same logic as believing in a big purple monkey awesome spider superman batman nintendo 64 killing machine that's 1000000 ft tall. They both have no evidence for their existence.

Whoa you have completely got it wrong with this comparison. For all any of us know, God is exactly as you described as a big purple monkey etc. etc. We do not believe in a form of God, this is heresy. We believe in values and qualities etc. etc.

 

[qqwref]

How come we have an appendix?

Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. Claiming an organ is vestigial is something that our current level of science is not ready to proclaim.

Sure, OK. The main evidence for it being vestigial is that when people have it removed it doesn't really negatively affect them, but I suppose it's always possible it might have some small function we aren't aware of. Still, there are many other problems with the human body.

Please explain why life created by an intelligent being would have to be perfect. Perhaps that if life was created, the creator's intention was to not be perfect, to deteriorate, and to die out.

I don't expect it to be perfect, but if you're going to declare that the positive qualities of a human body point to a creator, someone needs to point out that there are also quite a few negative qualities.

Ok if you READ what i said, i said that i interpret the fact of existence itself as proof.
Since this is obviously how i INTERPRET there is no burden of proof...

But why the christian God of all the Gods out there?
If our existence is your proof of an intelligent designer there must be other evidence that points at this one God especially.

This. I know there's a tendency in this kind of argument to interchangeably talk about the idea of any god and the idea of the Christian God, but this is a really good point. Even if you believe there must be a creator, or life must be intelligently designed, or whatever... where's your argument that this deity must be the same one the Bible talks about, and the same one your church tells you to pray to?

 

[jms_gears1]

Ok if you READ what i said, i said that i interpret the fact of existence itself as proof.
Since this is obviously how i INTERPRET there is no burden of proof...

But why the christian God of all the Gods out there?
If our existence is your proof of an intelligent designer there must be other evidence that points at this one God especially.

A couple of diffrent things, Mostly its that i believe that other religions are wrong.

First of all I automatically think of polytheistic arguments as absurd. When I think of God i think of a being that created us, that is all powerful. Every Polytheistic religion that i know of says that, there is one almightyish god who created minor deitys to help him out. I believe that this line of thought makes any type of god to much like humans, therefore the god is no longer really a god.

now the one other religious group i know something about, as far as their beliefs go, are the muslims. Muslims say they believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah, but Muhammad was the major prophet. A prophet speaks for God, or in this case Allah. However they do not believe Jesus to be the messiah. Jesus clearly state that he is. So when the muslims say that he is not they are calling Allah a liar. Which defeats the point of the religion.

 

[Johan444]

Ok if you READ what i said, i said that i interpret the fact of existence itself as proof.
Since this is obviously how i INTERPRET there is no burden of proof...

But why the christian God of all the Gods out there?
If our existence is your proof of an intelligent designer there must be other evidence that points at this one God especially.

A couple of diffrent things, Mostly its that i believe that other religions are wrong.

First of all I automatically think of polytheistic arguments as absurd. When I think of God i think of a being that created us, that is all powerful. Every Polytheistic religion that i know of says that, there is one almightyish god who created minor deitys to help him out. I believe that this line of thought makes any type of god to much like humans, therefore the god is no longer really a god.

now the one other religious group i know something about, as far as their beliefs go, are the muslims. Muslims say they believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah, but Muhammad was the major prophet. A prophet speaks for God, or in this case Allah. However they do not believe Jesus to be the messiah. Jesus clearly state that he is. So when the muslims say that he is not they are calling Allah a liar. Which defeats the point of the religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions

A list of a few hundreds religions that you would need to discard the same way you did with islam.

Maybe your "other things" are focusing on evidence that are speaking for christianity itself.

 

[Lt-UnReaL]

And if someone comes back with "that's what faith is for", or something...why would you devote your entire life worshipping and following something that you don't even know is true?

And in case you weren't aware, there isn't any theory about how life was created that is concrete enough to be considered true-no-matter-what-end-of-story. Devoting to any of these theories could very well be "wasting your entire life."

You can't be sure that whatever you believe is true, science-based or not.

Nope, I was well aware. I hope you didn't assume I wasn't aware of that.



@jms_gears1: lol

 

[RyanO]

Ok if you READ what i said, i said that i interpret the fact of existence itself as proof.
Since this is obviously how i INTERPRET there is no burden of proof...

But why the christian God of all the Gods out there?
If our existence is your proof of an intelligent designer there must be other evidence that points at this one God especially.

A couple of diffrent things, Mostly its that i believe that other religions are wrong.

First of all I automatically think of polytheistic arguments as absurd. When I think of God i think of a being that created us, that is all powerful. Every Polytheistic religion that i know of says that, there is one almightyish god who created minor deitys to help him out. I believe that this line of thought makes any type of god to much like humans, therefore the god is no longer really a god.

now the one other religious group i know something about, as far as their beliefs go, are the muslims. Muslims say they believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah, but Muhammad was the major prophet. A prophet speaks for God, or in this case Allah. However they do not believe Jesus to be the messiah. Jesus clearly state that he is. So when the muslims say that he is not they are calling Allah a liar. Which defeats the point of the religion.

Even if other religions are wrong, it doesn't mean yours is right. B != not A. You admit that you think most religous people are wrong, maybe there is a pattern here. Also you are making the common mistake of assuming the Bible is true in order to prove that the Bible is true. This is clearly circular reasoning. The Bible states that Jesus claims to be the messiah, however we can't know what he really said. That's like saying the Qur'an states Jesus isn't the messiah, therefore when Crhistians say he is they are calling God a liar.

 

[jms_gears1]

Ok if you READ what i said, i said that i interpret the fact of existence itself as proof.
Since this is obviously how i INTERPRET there is no burden of proof...

But why the christian God of all the Gods out there?
If our existence is your proof of an intelligent designer there must be other evidence that points at this one God especially.

A couple of diffrent things, Mostly its that i believe that other religions are wrong.

First of all I automatically think of polytheistic arguments as absurd. When I think of God i think of a being that created us, that is all powerful. Every Polytheistic religion that i know of says that, there is one almightyish god who created minor deitys to help him out. I believe that this line of thought makes any type of god to much like humans, therefore the god is no longer really a god.

now the one other religious group i know something about, as far as their beliefs go, are the muslims. Muslims say they believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah, but Muhammad was the major prophet. A prophet speaks for God, or in this case Allah. However they do not believe Jesus to be the messiah. Jesus clearly state that he is. So when the muslims say that he is not they are calling Allah a liar. Which defeats the point of the religion.

Even if other religions are wrong, it doesn't mean yours is right. B != not A. You admit that you think most religous people are wrong, maybe there is a pattern here. Also you are making the common mistake of assuming the Bible is true in order to prove that the Bible is true. This is clearly circular reasoning. The Bible states that Jesus claims to be the messiah, however we can't know what he really said. That's like saying the Qur'an states Jesus isn't the messiah, therefore when Crhistians say he is they are calling God a liar.

Well i have not seen a better explanation than that of creation.

also The muslims believe in the christian Jesus from what i remember.

 

[Muesli]

Ok if you READ what i said, i said that i interpret the fact of existence itself as proof.
Since this is obviously how i INTERPRET there is no burden of proof...

But why the christian God of all the Gods out there?
If our existence is your proof of an intelligent designer there must be other evidence that points at this one God especially.

A couple of diffrent things, Mostly its that i believe that other religions are wrong.

First of all I automatically think of polytheistic arguments as absurd. When I think of God i think of a being that created us, that is all powerful. Every Polytheistic religion that i know of says that, there is one almightyish god who created minor deitys to help him out. I believe that this line of thought makes any type of god to much like humans, therefore the god is no longer really a god.

now the one other religious group i know something about, as far as their beliefs go, are the muslims. Muslims say they believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah, but Muhammad was the major prophet. A prophet speaks for God, or in this case Allah. However they do not believe Jesus to be the messiah. Jesus clearly state that he is. So when the muslims say that he is not they are calling Allah a liar. Which defeats the point of the religion.

Even if other religions are wrong, it doesn't mean yours is right. B != not A. You admit that you think most religous people are wrong, maybe there is a pattern here. Also you are making the common mistake of assuming the Bible is true in order to prove that the Bible is true. This is clearly circular reasoning. The Bible states that Jesus claims to be the messiah, however we can't know what he really said. That's like saying the Qur'an states Jesus isn't the messiah, therefore when Crhistians say he is they are calling God a liar.

Well i have not seen a better explanation than that of creation.

also The muslims believe in the christian Jesus from what i remember.

No, you're just not seeing a better explanation than creation.

 

[Johan444]

Well i have not seen a better explanation than that of creation.

Here's one:

"God created the universe. End."

This one > the bible because there are no contradictions or false statements.

Sorry, abit too drunk to avoid posting

 

[jms_gears1]

Ok if you READ what i said, i said that i interpret the fact of existence itself as proof.
Since this is obviously how i INTERPRET there is no burden of proof...

But why the christian God of all the Gods out there?
If our existence is your proof of an intelligent designer there must be other evidence that points at this one God especially.

A couple of diffrent things, Mostly its that i believe that other religions are wrong.

First of all I automatically think of polytheistic arguments as absurd. When I think of God i think of a being that created us, that is all powerful. Every Polytheistic religion that i know of says that, there is one almightyish god who created minor deitys to help him out. I believe that this line of thought makes any type of god to much like humans, therefore the god is no longer really a god.

now the one other religious group i know something about, as far as their beliefs go, are the muslims. Muslims say they believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah, but Muhammad was the major prophet. A prophet speaks for God, or in this case Allah. However they do not believe Jesus to be the messiah. Jesus clearly state that he is. So when the muslims say that he is not they are calling Allah a liar. Which defeats the point of the religion.

Even if other religions are wrong, it doesn't mean yours is right. B != not A. You admit that you think most religous people are wrong, maybe there is a pattern here. Also you are making the common mistake of assuming the Bible is true in order to prove that the Bible is true. This is clearly circular reasoning. The Bible states that Jesus claims to be the messiah, however we can't know what he really said. That's like saying the Qur'an states Jesus isn't the messiah, therefore when Crhistians say he is they are calling God a liar.

Well i have not seen a better explanation than that of creation.

also The muslims believe in the christian Jesus from what i remember.

No, you're just not seeing a better explanation than creation.

And whats a better explanation?
First of all that would be subjective however....
I honestly would like to believe that my existence doesn't stop when i die.

 

[RyanO]

Well i have not seen a better explanation than that of creation.

also The muslims believe in the christian Jesus from what i remember.

Creation does not imply a Christian God. Muslims don't believe the biblical stories about Jesus are authentic. If you read the Qur'an this is quite clear. If making the right religous decision is so important, I don't understand why you haven't done more research on other religions.

I'll leave you with a quote by Christian apologist, C. S. Lewis.

"If ours is an examined faith, we should be unafraid to doubt. If doubt is eventually justified, we were believeing what was clearly not worth believing. But if doubt is answered, our faith has grown stronger. It knows God more certainly and can enjoy God more deeply."

 

[Muesli]

Ok if you READ what i said, i said that i interpret the fact of existence itself as proof.
Since this is obviously how i INTERPRET there is no burden of proof...

But why the christian God of all the Gods out there?
If our existence is your proof of an intelligent designer there must be other evidence that points at this one God especially.

A couple of diffrent things, Mostly its that i believe that other religions are wrong.

First of all I automatically think of polytheistic arguments as absurd. When I think of God i think of a being that created us, that is all powerful. Every Polytheistic religion that i know of says that, there is one almightyish god who created minor deitys to help him out. I believe that this line of thought makes any type of god to much like humans, therefore the god is no longer really a god.

now the one other religious group i know something about, as far as their beliefs go, are the muslims. Muslims say they believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah, but Muhammad was the major prophet. A prophet speaks for God, or in this case Allah. However they do not believe Jesus to be the messiah. Jesus clearly state that he is. So when the muslims say that he is not they are calling Allah a liar. Which defeats the point of the religion.

Even if other religions are wrong, it doesn't mean yours is right. B != not A. You admit that you think most religous people are wrong, maybe there is a pattern here. Also you are making the common mistake of assuming the Bible is true in order to prove that the Bible is true. This is clearly circular reasoning. The Bible states that Jesus claims to be the messiah, however we can't know what he really said. That's like saying the Qur'an states Jesus isn't the messiah, therefore when Crhistians say he is they are calling God a liar.

Well i have not seen a better explanation than that of creation.

also The muslims believe in the christian Jesus from what i remember.

No, you're just not seeing a better explanation than creation.

And whats a better explanation?
First of all that would be subjective however....
I honestly would like to believe that my existence doesn't stop when i die.

There is concrete evidence that the earth is older than ~6000 years and that dinosaurs roamed the earth millions of years ago. As soon as I ask you to provide evidence that God exists you essentially say "I believe it, so I don't need evidence". I could claim that I can breath underwater, but nobody would actually take me seriously until I did it. I am in the position of "Show me why you believe this".

To quote Ricky Gervais, "It annoys me that the burden of proof is on the athiest. It should be: 'you came up with an idea, why do you believe it?'. I could tell you that I have superpowers. But I can't go up to people saying 'Prove I can't fly.'. They'd go: 'what do you mean 'prove you can't fly?', prove you can.'

 

[Swordsman Kirby]

because there are no contradictions or false statements.

lol circular reasoning

 

[Kirjava]

Hey jms_gears1,

I see you didn't reply to my last post.

Ignorance is bliss, eh?