Giving up Cubing for Lent

Ya Ranzha, anyway, you may have realized you were too late but the issue had already been dealt with :P.

anyway. Athiests, there is logically no way there can not be a God. And now please allow me some time to gather my rebuttal.

Don't try to defend any religious beliefes with logic. Don't even mention 'God' and 'logic' in the same sentence.

I can't logically or scientifically prove that God exists, but I have 100% faith that he does.


OMG DON'T FLAME ME BRO ;_;

So if I came into your house at night at threatened to kill you, you wouldn't even flinch, knowing that your God will send you to heaven?

How's that related? Humans naturally need to survive, using what little instinct we homo sapiens have. Even if we have faith, we'll try to live.

If God were to knock on my door and offered to go to heaven painlessly, I'd still ask to live a full life and die naturally. Then, I could still go to heaven, under the conditions that I repent.

If you tried to kill me, I'd try to avoid being killed, even if I knew that I'd be in heaven.
 
Nothing you say is going to change my opinion, and nothing I say should change yours.

At least we are now getting some honesty :eek:

I think this statement can sum up this whole debate on the theist side well.
 
but I don't believe that there was "a big bang"

What's that based on? Or is is just some personal belief? As to what there was before the big bang, well, if you accept the big bang theory, what happened before is just metaphysics. You might have scientists speculating about what might have happened before, but science cannot answer that. Science deals with the observable, i.e. the universe. Strictly speaking, what happened before the big bang, just as what there is inside a black hole, isn't part of our universe, and hence is only open to speculation.
I don't. Yes, it's my personal belief. I don't believe in God, but I don't believe in the big bang either.
 
Just wanted to throw this out there: if we assume there's an omnipotent God (just for a moment, please), then He could do whatever He wants right? Meaning He could defy our logic, become completely impossible for us as limited humans to understand. Who's to say He didn't cause evolution or the big bang? If He's all powerful, He can do whatever He wants, right? It then becomes much more difficult to contradict a God. (You can now go back to assuming there's no God.)

Feel free to disagree.
 
Just wanted to throw this out there: if we assume there's an omnipotent God (just for a moment, please), then He could do whatever He wants right? Meaning He could defy our logic, become completely impossible for us as limited humans to understand. Who's to say He didn't cause evolution or the big bang? If He's all powerful, He can do whatever He wants, right? It then becomes much more difficult to contradict a God. (You can now go back to assuming there's no God.)

Feel free to disagree.

My thoughts exactly. I just didn't want to post it until I could word it correctly.
And I know someone will come with a strong counter argument that will shut me up and own me in the process.
 
but I don't believe that there was "a big bang"

What's that based on? Or is is just some personal belief? As to what there was before the big bang, well, if you accept the big bang theory, what happened before is just metaphysics. You might have scientists speculating about what might have happened before, but science cannot answer that. Science deals with the observable, i.e. the universe. Strictly speaking, what happened before the big bang, just as what there is inside a black hole, isn't part of our universe, and hence is only open to speculation.
I don't. Yes, it's my personal belief. I don't believe in God, but I don't believe in the big bang either.

You choose to have an opinion on (and reject) a scientific theory you don't even understand?
 
Wait, are you saying that all Muslims are idol worshipers?
Nope. Simply stating that from a Christian perspective, both of them aren't worshiping the Christian God.

if we assume there's an omnipotent God...Who's to say He didn't cause evolution or the big bang?

OK. I don't know a single person that believes in big bang, but not evolution. No one believes there was a huge explosion and then all the different animals were there. If there are, I would say the traditional big bang theorists would even make fun of them.

So, did God create evolution? Sure. He did. No argument from me.

Wait, when you use "evolution", are you referring to the small changes in a species? Or are you referring to the "goo to dude" theory? <SARCASM>Not that anyone would ever try to jump from one to the other without clarification</SARCASM>

So let's think about how your "God exists and 'goo to dude' is correct" theory doesn't work. So when you say "God exists", what exactly are you saying? Some God exists, but we don't know exactly what he's like? I'm going to assume you're referring to the Christian God. Well, if you're taking a Christian perspective look at things, your basis is that the Bible is true.

OK, so let's look at the story of creation (Genesis 1). God created the world in 6 days. Well, let's put on our evolution hat and say that maybe those weren't 6 24-hour period, but days are to be interpreted as something longer (billions of years). From a Christian perspective, we won't argue it (not that it can't be argued, you'll just see that it doesn't matter if we are right or wrong on this).

So let's look at ordering from a Christian perspective:
Genesis 1:20 - God creates the animals in the sea and the birds of the air on day 5.
Genesis 1:24 - God creates creatures that move on the ground (livestock, wild animals, etc).

But that ordering doesn't work from an evolutionist perspective, since birds are land animals with wings. You don't jump right from sea creatures to birds. Therefore, you have a conflict.
 
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Wait, when you use "evolution", are you referring to the small changes in a species? Or are you referring to the "goo to dude" theory? <SARCASM>Not that anyone would ever try to jump from one to the other without clarification</SARCASM>

So let's think about how your "God exists and 'goo to dude' is correct" theory doesn't work. So when you say "God exists", what exactly are you saying? Some God exists, but we don't know exactly what he's like? I'm going to assume you're referring to the Christian God. Well, if you're taking a Christian perspective look at things, your basis is that the Bible is true.

OK, so let's look at the story of creation (Genesis 1). God created the world in 6 days. Well, let's put on our evolution hat and say that maybe those weren't 6 24-hour period, but days are to be interpreted as something longer (billions of years). From a Christian perspective, we won't argue it (not that it can't be argued, you'll just see that it doesn't matter if we are right or wrong on this).

So let's look at ordering from a Christian perspective:
Genesis 1:20 - God creates the animals in the sea and the birds of the air on day 5.
Genesis 1:24 - God creates creatures that move on the ground (livestock, wild animals, etc).

But that ordering doesn't work from an evolutionist perspective, since birds are land animals with wings. You don't jump right from sea creatures to birds. Therefore, you have a conflict.

Hadn't thought about all that, but I try not to if I can avoid it. It only gives Satan a little push in shaking my faith. (Yes, I'm a strong Christian.)

But those are all legitimate points. I personally don't think God would've done evolution like scientists are saying it happened, but I have no way of knowing. For all I know He could've formed some random "goo" and then turned it into a human in seconds, or millions of years. I wasn't there.
 
For all I know He could've formed some random "goo" and then turned it into a human in seconds, or millions of years. I wasn't there.

"goo to dude" theory has intermediate steps (trying to avoid people pointing out that God formed man from dust). As for not being there, I agree. It would be much more convenient if someone who was there....perhaps God.....left us some sort of recorded history that we could learn from......
 
That's one of the many things I'm looking forward to about heaven. We can finally ask God those questions we've always wanted to know about.
 
Hadn't thought about all that, but I try not to if I can avoid it. It only gives Satan a little push in shaking my faith. (Yes, I'm a strong Christian.)

Not thinking about why you belive something can lead to terrible consequences.

P.S. The quote tree in you message is incorrect, I didn't post any of those things.
 
So if I came into your house at night at threatened to kill you, you wouldn't even flinch, knowing that your God will send you to heaven?

I'm going to change "I" (you) to 7 foot psycho sabre-weilding lunatic (simply because I would not find you threatening at all).

My answer is: Naturally I would flinch, unless I was asleep. However I see no reason to try resisting. It would only cause me immense pain, which could be avoided by a quick cut across the throat.


Hadn't thought about all that, but I try not to if I can avoid it. It only gives Satan a little push in shaking my faith. (Yes, I'm a strong Christian.)

Not thinking about why you belive something can lead to terrible consequences.

It can also have no consequences whatsoever. Thanks for contributing that completely pointless statement though!
 
Some replies and opinions. :)

I know that on the forums my opinion is a lot less valuable than on youtube, so I'll spare you what I THINK about religion until I tell you a bit about what I KNOW about religion; and I happen to know quite a lot. Here's a few problems with the things you guys have been saying.

First of all a theory not an educated guess, please show some respect. A hypothesis is an educated guess. A theory is a strong model which is able to explain many things about a certain phenomenon.

Most people who don't agree with evolution or the big bang theory have not the slightest clue what evolution and the big bang theory say. I am a biology student at the University of Alberta, so I know (relative to most of the people posting here, anyway) a LOT about what the theory of evolution says. It has nothing to do with where life originally comes from, and it has nothing to do with whether or not there is a god. Even the pope, who is the leading cause of aids in Africa- and by extension probably the biggest ******* in the world, accepts evolution, and encourages everyone else in the church to accept it as well. (If you didn't get the joke, well... it's not really a joke, but basically the pope won't let christian Africans have condoms, and this is BAD for the aids problem)

Which brings me to my next point. Yes, catholics are christians. Every christian is either a catholic or a protestant. Catholicism is the "original christianity", while protestantism is all of the different denominations that disagreed with certain aspects of catholicism, and thought they could offer "better christianity". Catholics believe that the bread and wine in the mass LITTERALLY changes into the LITERAL flesh and blood of Jesus during the mass. I'm not joking. Catholics also are NOT allowed to be divorced. Ain't that a *****? A catholic who gets divorced will be shunned until they can get their marriage absolved (this means that a bishop says that the marriage technically never happened). It's annoying things like this about catholicism that made people want to change the religion a little bit to make it a bit more convenient. That's where protestant religions came from. I used to be a catholic for many many years, I took catechism (like Sunday school, but on Tuesdays and Thursdays) for like 4 years and even a university course on western religions. But the longer you spend in a university (even a christian university [oh crap did I just admit that?]) the smarter you get, and the harder it becomes to believe in ridiculous garbage like religion. Of course, now I'm at a REAL university which offers REAL degrees, and I'm living my own life, and guess what! I'm a happier, more successful student, and a better person than I ever was as a religious type. (Yes, I am an athiest now.) I had been thoroughly brainwashed to the point, looking back on it, that it's just SCARY... and I managed to pull myself out of it. Good for me. Besides, that praise and worship band I was in was horrible.

Oh, by the way god, Allah, and Yahweh are all the same dude. And if you're a christian: god, Allah, Yahweh, Jesus Christ, and the holy spirit (or ghost, if you're old-school) are all the same dude... but sort of not all at the same time. Weird, eh? Christianity, judaism, and islam are called the Abrahamic religions or "judao-christian religions", a name which I'm sure the muslims just LOVE! They are called this because they all come from the story of abraham (and his god) in one way or another. They are all worshiping the same guy, but they disagree on certain things. Jews believe that jesus was just another prophet. Muslims believe that jesus will come at the apocalypse to kick some serious ass. Yeah, that's actually true.

So yes, I am an atheist now. An atheist is anyone who doesn't believe that a god exists. Atheists do not believe in nothing. Nihilists are people who believe in nothing. Atheism and nihilism are NOT the same thing, or related to each other in any way.

Agnosticism might sound like atheism, but it's not the same thing. An agnostic is someone who doesn't know whether god exists or does not exist. You can be an agnostic christian, or an agnostic atheist, or an agnostic anything. If you don't know what you believe, you should call yourself an agnostic.

anyway, I'm sure some people are gonna be really mad at me for saying I'm not religious (and for calling the pope names). But before you flame me, think about why that bothers you so much. Almost everyone who is going to say something is NOT a catholic, and therefore has no reason to defend the pope. Furthermore, if someone has the right to post a comment about what he's doing for lent, I have the right to post a comment insulting the pope. Apples and oranges? Think really hard, and you'll see that it's the exact same thing. If the guy that opens the thread is allowed to talk religion, so is everyone else. And the fact that it's a person's belief doesn't make it all of a sudden safe from other opinions. On the contrary, I think the harder someone believes something based on what makes you feel good, the harder everyone else should try to help him abandon this delusion. (For example, I believe that I am the most handsome chick-magnet in the Edmonton area.)

By the way, I know you're supposed to capitalize catholic, christian, jew, muslim, and every other name of a "group" of people.. I'm just lazy. I also now you're supposed to capitalize "god" and "his"... but please, get real. If "god" is god's name, he might be all powerful and all knowing, but he sure isn't very original. Get a name, and I promise I'll capitalize it (and I know all about Yahweh, Allah, Jehova, et cetera. Until everyone starts using it though, it doesn't count.)

So, whatever religion you guys are, I hope you have a good lent or non-lent. Personally, I'm giving up those bottles of Arizona green tea... I love them, but they are packed with sugar. I think health is a better reason to give something up than a holiday. Makes it a lot easier too.

anyway, I hope I didn't offend anyone; but at the same time, I'm not apologizing if did.
 
I know that on the forums my opinion is a lot less valuable than on youtube, so I'll spare you what I THINK about religion until I tell you a bit about what I KNOW about religion; and I happen to know quite a lot. Here's a few problems with the things you guys have been saying.

First of all a theory not an educated guess, please show some respect. A hypothesis is an educated guess. A theory is a strong model which is able to explain many things about a certain phenomenon.

Most people who don't agree with evolution or the big bang theory have not the slightest clue what evolution and the big bang theory say. I am a biology student at the University of Alberta, so I know (relative to most of the people posting here, anyway) a LOT about what the theory of evolution says. It has nothing to do with where life originally comes from, and it has nothing to do with whether or not there is a god. Even the pope, who is the leading cause of aids in Africa- and by extension probably the biggest ******* in the world, accepts evolution, and encourages everyone else in the church to accept it as well. (If you didn't get the joke, well... it's not really a joke, but basically the pope won't let christian Africans have condoms, and this is BAD for the aids problem)

Which brings me to my next point. Yes, catholics are christians. Every christian is either a catholic or a protestant. Catholicism is the "original christianity", while protestantism is all of the different denominations that disagreed with certain aspects of catholicism, and thought they could offer "better christianity". Catholics believe that the bread and wine in the mass LITTERALLY changes into the LITERAL flesh and blood of Jesus during the mass. I'm not joking. Catholics also are NOT allowed to be divorced. Ain't that a *****? A catholic who gets divorced will be shunned until they can get their marriage absolved (this means that a bishop says that the marriage technically never happened). It's annoying things like this about catholicism that made people want to change the religion a little bit to make it a bit more convenient. That's where protestant religions came from. I used to be a catholic for many many years, I took catechism (like Sunday school, but on Tuesdays and Thursdays) for like 4 years and even a university course on western religions. But the longer you spend in a university (even a christian university [oh crap did I just admit that?]) the smarter you get, and the harder it becomes to believe in ridiculous garbage like religion. Of course, now I'm at a REAL university which offers REAL degrees, and I'm living my own life, and guess what! I'm a happier, more successful student, and a better person than I ever was as a religious type. (Yes, I am an athiest now.) I had been thoroughly brainwashed to the point, looking back on it, that it's just SCARY... and I managed to pull myself out of it. Good for me. Besides, that praise and worship band I was in was horrible.

Oh, by the way god, Allah, and Yahweh are all the same dude. And if you're a christian: god, Allah, Yahweh, Jesus Christ, and the holy spirit (or ghost, if you're old-school) are all the same dude... but sort of not all at the same time. Weird, eh? Christianity, judaism, and islam are called the Abrahamic religions or "judao-christian religions", a name which I'm sure the muslims just LOVE! They are called this because they all come from the story of abraham (and his god) in one way or another. They are all worshiping the same guy, but they disagree on certain things. Jews believe that jesus was just another prophet. Muslims believe that jesus will come at the apocalypse to kick some serious ass. Yeah, that's actually true.

So yes, I am an atheist now. An atheist is anyone who doesn't believe that a god exists. Atheists do not believe in nothing. Nihilists are people who believe in nothing. Atheism and nihilism are NOT the same thing, or related to each other in any way.

Agnosticism might sound like atheism, but it's not the same thing. An agnostic is someone who doesn't know whether god exists or does not exist. You can be an agnostic christian, or an agnostic atheist, or an agnostic anything. If you don't know what you believe, you should call yourself an agnostic.

anyway, I'm sure some people are gonna be really mad at me for saying I'm not religious (and for calling the pope names). But before you flame me, think about why that bothers you so much. Almost everyone who is going to say something is NOT a catholic, and therefore has no reason to defend the pope. Furthermore, if someone has the right to post a comment about what he's doing for lent, I have the right to post a comment insulting the pope. Apples and oranges? Think really hard, and you'll see that it's the exact same thing. If the guy that opens the thread is allowed to talk religion, so is everyone else. And the fact that it's a person's belief doesn't make it all of a sudden safe from other opinions. On the contrary, I think the harder someone believes something based on what makes you feel good, the harder everyone else should try to help him abandon this delusion. (For example, I believe that I am the most handsome chick-magnet in the Edmonton area.)

By the way, I know you're supposed to capitalize catholic, christian, jew, muslim, and every other name of a "group" of people.. I'm just lazy. I also now you're supposed to capitalize "god" and "his"... but please, get real. If "god" is god's name, he might be all powerful and all knowing, but he sure isn't very original. Get a name, and I promise I'll capitalize it (and I know all about Yahweh, Allah, Jehova, et cetera. Until everyone starts using it though, it doesn't count.)

So, whatever religion you guys are, I hope you have a good lent or non-lent. Personally, I'm giving up those bottles of Arizona green tea... I love them, but they are packed with sugar. I think health is a better reason to give something up than a holiday. Makes it a lot easier too.

anyway, I hope I didn't offend anyone; but at the same time, I'm not apologizing if did.

Great speech.
Very nicely said, but I think you would have offended some people. Bits of this made me laugh, good work.
 
Lance: there are a few points I could object to. I'm sure they are small things you overlooked in your haste to write that essay.

The big point I want to disagree with is your "catholics or protestants" idea. This simply is not true.

I am neither, but I am still a Christian. Call me a free-lancer Christian if you like. It doesn't matter. I refuse to belong to any specific religious sect.
 
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