• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 40,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

Edge orientation (ZZ)

Solve

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
83
I was wondering what would be the best time to do edge orientation while solving a cube. ZZ method has you do edge orientation at the beginning, which means you don't have to do it later. However, it also means that you cannot rotate the green or blue sides during a solve, or else your edges won't be oriented anymore. Some people look at this in a positive way, and say that it speeds up your solve because it forces you to use only the red and orange faces. However, I sometimes find it difficult to be confined to only two faces. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
 

aznanimedude

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2012
Messages
666
I was wondering what would be the best time to do edge orientation while solving a cube. ZZ method has you do edge orientation at the beginning, which means you don't have to do it later. However, it also means that you cannot rotate the green or blue sides during a solve, or else your edges won't be oriented anymore. Some people look at this in a positive way, and say that it speeds up your solve because it forces you to use only the red and orange faces. However, I sometimes find it difficult to be confined to only two faces. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

EO ensures no cube rotations during f2l, and a cross on opposite color. Also, the nice thing is it forces you to learn to insert from behind if you don't know how to already.
 

mDiPalma

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
1,534
ya, using only the red and orange faces would make solving very difficult.
 

ZincK_NOVA

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
53
Location
Bristol, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
WCA
2011OCON01
YouTube
Visit Channel
I'd say that there isn't necessarily a "best time" to orient edges, more that it depends on the solver and how they prefer to solve. For one-handed, not rotating the cube can be really helpful (a big selling point of ZZ) but it is not necessary to achieve good times; some people can rotate the cube and/or do F moves really easily one-handed. For two-handed solving, I don't think it really matters too much, it just depends on where it fits most naturally in that method eg: Roux solvers have slice moves for the majority of their solve and only need to worry about orientation in LSE; doing it any earlier would be of no real benefit to the Roux method (and may even hinder in some cases).

ya, using only the red and orange faces would make solving very difficult.
Not at all, it just takes a little getting used to. I thought that too when I first tried to learn ZZ but you soon get used to it, like most things when changing methods I guess.
 

mDiPalma

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
1,534
Not at all, it just takes a little getting used to. I thought that too when I first tried to learn ZZ but you soon get used to it, like most things when changing methods I guess.

cool! i should try zz sometime.

wait am i allowed to use the top and bottom of the cube too?
 

aznanimedude

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2012
Messages
666
Yes, the idea of eo line is to theoretically reduce solving to only the RUL movegroup, although you only really restrict yourself to that during f2l and do whatever ll you want
 

Endgame

Member
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
405
Has anybody ever thought of only orienting the edges you need for F2L, so you can use a last slot method to orient the edges on the last layer to maximise the efficiency of inspection time? I think that works a lot better, but then again, I've never used ZZ and I don't have any plans to do so in the near future.
 

mDiPalma

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
1,534
Has anybody ever thought of only orienting the edges you need for F2L, so you can use a last slot method to orient the edges on the last layer to maximise the efficiency of inspection time?

there's more than enough inspection time to find all misoriented edges and plan an ergonomic eoline. a small kitten refers to this as "the angle of execution".

i usually look for x-eolines with extra inspection time. and more recently, i've tried a y/y' and see if that orientation's eoline is any easier.

i think it'd be a waste to just orient the f2l edges and do a last slot algorithm later, when you have enough time to inspect and plan an orientation for all edges from the start.
 

ZincK_NOVA

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
53
Location
Bristol, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
WCA
2011OCON01
YouTube
Visit Channel
Has anybody ever thought of only orienting the edges you need for F2L, so you can use a last slot method to orient the edges on the last layer to maximise the efficiency of inspection time? I think that works a lot better, but then again, I've never used ZZ and I don't have any plans to do so in the near future.
I personally wouldn't find that helpful; for me, I just check if an edge is good or bad, and having to pay attention to top colour as well would take more effort for me at least. Plus, you may get cases where you have an odd number of mis-oriented F2L edges, which could throw some people off given that they have only 12 seconds to think of how to deal with it.

why do two thirds when doing all of them is just as easy, if not easier?
 

Solve

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
83
Well, I guess another factor is that when you use zz method, you can orient 2 or 4 pieces at a time.
 

uvafan

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
995
WCA
2012LIFL01
YouTube
Visit Channel
I was wondering what would be the best time to do edge orientation while solving a cube. ZZ method has you do edge orientation at the beginning, which means you don't have to do it later. However, it also means that you cannot rotate the green or blue sides during a solve, or else your edges won't be oriented anymore. Some people look at this in a positive way, and say that it speeds up your solve because it forces you to use only the red and orange faces. However, I sometimes find it difficult to be confined to only two faces. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

When I first started using ZZ, holding the cube in the same way the whole time was very hard, but now it is natural. I got used to it very quickly. Also, no cube rotations helps the whole solve flow better, at least IMO.
 

aznanimedude

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2012
Messages
666
When I first started using ZZ, holding the cube in the same way the whole time was very hard, but now it is natural. I got used to it very quickly. Also, no cube rotations helps the whole solve flow better, at least IMO.

This. It was tricky to start off, but it was because I always used to insert I'm front. I just had to force myself to try to find other ways to do pairs and it just got more and more natural from there. Same with insertions, I knew how to do them, I just never did out of it not really being needed. But forcing myself to not do cube rotations made it so I had no choice but to get used to them. All about putting in the time
 
Top