difference of edges and corners order

[xchiltonx]

I get an average of 2mins, using the old method that I learnt as a child.

I've been looking through two web sites in the beginner's section:
- Dan's http://www.cubestation.co.uk
- Joël's http://solvethecube.110mb.com
And successfully turning the cube upside down
I can't yet get the same times yet as I'm still learning it...
(took my cube apart, filed and greased it)

But now I see that Dan and Joël do not have the same order:

Joël's solvethecube (http://solvethecube.110mb.com/index.php?location=simple_solution)
Step 4: Orienting the last layer edges
Step 5: Orientating the last layer corners
Step 6: Position the last layer corners
Step 7: Position the last layer edges

Dan's CubeStation (http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/index.php?page=3x3x3/beginner/step4)
Step 4, Orient the Last Layer Edges
Step 5, Permute the Last Layer Edges
Step 6, Orient the Last Layer Corners
Step 7, Permute the Last Layer Corners

Now my old method was :
-position corners
-orient corners
-position edges
-orient edges

So I'm getting confused, I need to get it smooth before starting F2L.

 

[MistArts]

If you want to start on the Fridrich method, a common method, then start doing: (in order to advance to 4-Look Last Layer (4LLL), 3LLL, 2LLL)

Orienting the last layer edges
Orientating the last layer corners
Position the last layer corners
Position the last layer edges

If you want to do Petrus method, a not-so common method and requires a bit more thinking, then start doing: (in order to do 2-Look COLL, 2-Look EPLL, and then advance to 1-Look COLL and easily 1-Look EPLL)

(Petrus method has edges already oriented)
Orientating the last layer corners
Position the last layer corners
Position the last layer edges

Look at Macky's site for Fridrich and Lar's site for Petrus.

 

[hawkmp4]

Well, if you're going to stick with a layer by layer method, it would be good to start learning a last layer method that will be transferrable to Fridrich.
How most speedcubers who do a LBL method do their last layer is...
Orient LL edges
Orient LL corners
Permute LL corners
Permute LL edges

eventually the goal is to do both orientation steps in one step, and combine both permutation steps similarly.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=4A19F1D174B975BD
Badmephisto's video tutorials are always of excellent quality, I would start there. 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL is what you're looking for, but you could probably benefit from anything on there.

 

[AvGalen]

If you want to switch to the way most people solve the last layer, I would recommend http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=803

 

[ImNOTnoob]

Lol... since the last layer method I use is
Orient corners
Orient Edges
Permute corners
permute edges

My two look OLL (now halfway through memorising full OLL) starts with corners orient first...

 

[xchiltonx]

Oh no they ALL go:
EOLL
COLL
CPLL
EPLL

So that if I ever get better then the Orientations join and the Permutations join.
So Dan's is no good (damn), I've got to go with Joël's, I'm going to print off that 4-look page of yours, it's great for me.

 

[xchiltonx]

Right after inspection,
Step 4 both EOLL and identical
Step 5 is the same move ( R U R' U R U2 R' ) since it moves edges and corners. Except worst case scenario for Dan's EPLL is 1 move, and Joel's COLL is 2 moves (or 7 algs).
Step 6 Joel's CPLL and Step 7 Dan CPLL is same move since it doesn't touch the edge pieces. Except the Joel one has worst case 2xmove (or 2nd alg) because the edges are still muddled up in the CPLL.

So far practically identical, but with slight advantages for Dan's.
Finally, Step 7 Joel EPLL and Step 6 Dan COLL
COLL used the R D R' D' sequence so very easy (and I guess quick?) yet it can be a 4x move (unless I could use Joel's COLL 7 algs???).
EPLL uses 2 algs giving a 2 look (or 7 alg).

So question: how quick is it to use the R D R' D' to do all 4 corners?

 

[AvGalen]

If you are going to do RDR'D' to do all 4 corners, you should flip the cube so it becomes (RUR'U')*2 and (URU'R')*2. I use that for blindfolded and megaminx and it takes about 1 second per corner

 

[xchiltonx]

Sorry it was a copy/paste mistake. I do do it upside down.

 

[xchiltonx]

Wait a minute RDR'D' is upside down i.e. first layer is on D.
R D R' D' R D R' D' then rotate top for next corner in COLL
http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/index.php?page=3x3x3/beginner/step6
Or do you mean flip it to put it the right way up

 

[Neutrals01]

Wait a minute RDR'D' is upside down i.e. first layer is on D.
R D R' D' R D R' D' then rotate top for next corner in COLL
http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/index.php?page=3x3x3/beginner/step6
Or do you mean flip it to put it the right way up

if u want to use that R' D' R D thing... I suggest u learn jasmine lee's last layer... 9 algorithms for whole last layer, 2 algos for flip last layer edges to form cross, 1 to permute corners, 2 to orient corners, and 4 to permute edges.. I calculated the amount of moves needed for this method and the amount of moves for 2 look oll + 2 look pll... both also have almost the same amount of moves needed..but this one less algos to learn(step 4 and 7 of jasmine lee method is same like 2 look oll + 2 look pll's step 4 and 7, just step 5 and 6 different)..jasmine lee's (step 4 5 6 7 >> moves(quarter turn metric) on average : 6, 7 , 14 , 12)..2 look oll + 2 look pll (step 4 5 6 7 >> moves on average : 6 , 9~10, 12, 12).. jasmine lee's last layer = 9 algos total ...2 look oll + 2 look pll = 16 algos total

http://peter.stillhq.com/jasmine/rubikscubesolution.html

 

[nitrocan]

R' D' R D is very boring and slow in my opinion. Orienting the edges, then the corners, and then permuting them would be better.

But hey, here's how good Fridrich is: Orient LL, Permute LL

 

[xchiltonx]

Jessica's method is very similar to my own old method. There's a lot of middle slices. I'd like to speed up with out having to learn 21 PLL algs (never mine the 78 for the 2-look). I think that middle slices are slow, by doing every thing on U and R i can probably get the finger tricks working.

 

[Neutrals01]

Jessica's method is very similar to my own old method. There's a lot of middle slices. I'd like to speed up with out having to learn 21 PLL algs (never mine the 78 for the 2-look). I think that middle slices are slow, by doing every thing on U and R i can probably get the finger tricks working.

then u should start searching algorithms without middle slices...none of my oll and pll algorithm have middle slices...because I am weak in middle slices too

 

[Scigatt]

If you want to start on the Fridrich method, a common method, then start doing: (in order to advance to 4-Look Last Layer (4LLL), 3LLL, 2LLL)

Orienting the last layer edges
Orientating the last layer corners
Position the last layer corners
Position the last layer edges

If you want to do Petrus method, a not-so common method and requires a bit more thinking, then start doing: (in order to do 2-Look COLL, 2-Look EPLL, and then advance to 1-Look COLL and easily 1-Look EPLL)

(Petrus method has edges already oriented)
Orientating the last layer corners
Position the last layer corners
Position the last layer edges

Look at Macky's site for Fridrich and Lar's site for Petrus.

On Petrus don't you position then orient the corners?

 

[xchiltonx]

hey yeh you're right there

At the moment after comparing different methods, my new beginner's method goes:

Edge OLL
Edge PLL
Corner PLL
Corner OLL

I guess that I'll have to see how I'll get it into a less-look solution...

 

[dmchale]

I only learned the beginner method less than a month ago myself (on DanH's site) and started teaching myself Fridrich about a week after. It's taking me longer than it would probably take most other people, since I'm still new to "seeing" things on the cube and learning algs, but I definitely echo above to take a look at Badmephisto's 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL videos on youtube for help. I *hate* the RDR'D'RDR'D' steps in the COLL step so that's a huge incentive for me to learn the OLL algorithms, especially the ones for the cases where all 4 corners need to be oriented

I like the 2-look PLL as well because after you do the first A-perm you're usually left with either another A-perm or a U-perm one of either direction - all three algs are easy to remember and quick to execute. I'd say H-perm comes up next (based on frequency) and I very rarely see a Z- or E- perm but yeah they do happen. I'm also a big fan of the clockwise A-perm since my xR'UR' is one fluid motion and is more of an l'UR'. I smoothed out my execution there a LOT once I figured that out

I got my beginner method average around 2:40 when I first started learning Fridrich ~2 weeks ago and my average is currently around 1:50 or so with a PB (non-skip) of 1:23. I'm still doing a beginner's method F2L as well, I know keyhole would cut some times off temporarily but I'm trying to master the 4LLL before tackling the actual F2L either by algorithm or by finally comprehending it intuitively rather than moving to keyhole when I know it would only be temporary. I also only get about an hour or so a night to practice, if that, since I have the wife/job/kid thing so YMMV as far as how quickly you might be able to pick things up and drop your times.