3x3 Dayan Guhong Pro M - Impressions - WOW!!!

[OreKehStrah]

Detailed photos of the spring/maglev system. More fine tuning should be possible after disassembling it.

Warning. I'm not responsible for any damage, if you attempt this.

Turning clockwise while pushing down the top piece unlocks and shows the lower circular box housing the spring (or ring magnets).
View attachment 26637

The box can be taken out using pliers.
View attachment 26638

This is prevented from popping by 3 tiny lugs on the rim at the top of the outer cup. The lugs catch the flange ring at the bottom of the inner cup, if the ring reaches the top of the outer cup, when pushed by three spring.
View attachment 26639

View attachment 26640

You have to carefully tilt the inner cup to create moving space and then pull it past those lugs to get it out. I used pliers and this can cause damage if you are not gentle.
View attachment 26641


There is only one washer, at the bottom of the spring.
View attachment 26642

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So, it is possible to change the springs, or ring magnets if you are able to find suitable replacement. A simpler adjustment is to just add an additional washer to the top of the spring (if more compression is desired than what's possible using the setting dial. )

Very cool find. Personally I don’t think anyone would want to compress it any more. The lowest setting is very very nice to me.

 

[Dan the Beginner]

Very cool find. Personally I don’t think anyone would want to compress it any more. The lowest setting is very very nice to me.

Thanks.

If anyone finds a ring magnet that fits, please share. I think at least the outer one with the same size should be available from specialised stores like this one.

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[Manxkiwi]

I've recently ordered a 54mm maglev version, based on your comments. I'm looking to forward to getting it and trying it out. I also like the slightly smaller cubes, so this should sit nicely in my collection..

 

[Dan the Beginner]

I've recently ordered a 54mm maglev version, based on your comments. I'm looking to forward to getting it and trying it out. I also like the slightly smaller cubes, so this should sit nicely in my collection..

I'm sure you will like it. It's like a smaller Tornado V3 Flagship.

 

[Manxkiwi]

Yes I have a V3 also and love it. I'm sure, as you say, I will like this cube.

 

[Dan the Beginner]

Is this innovation? I took a closer look at the ring magnets to assess this.

The box housing the magnets is the same size externally as the one for the spring version, but Internally there are different circular grooves to hold our secure the magnets in their positions.

Those who are engineers please confirm this or correct me if I'm wrong. I believe this ring-in-ring design has some advantage over others, as the ring magnets should be evenly held and stay in the centre (relative to the axle) as one is pushed towards the other. Simpler designs just have bare ring magnets under a screw, meaning the magnets could move sideways, and they could be noisier or perhaps cause uneven force in turning. There are expensive brands with well designed maglev systems, but this Guhong is $20. Tornado V3 Pioneer, interestingly has a design that deliberately pushes the ring magnets sideways when tension is adjusted. That to me also means weight is not evenly distributed, which could affect how smoothly the layers are turned. I'm not sure how important or innovative the design in the Guhong maglev system is, but it is working well.

In short, apart from a tiny bit of sharp edges and the visible marks on the faces of the pieces, I am impressed by the engineering design, which iswhat matters to its functionality.

 

[TimCube]

Great review, I just now bought one for myself (the 54mm standard) because I'll be competing in OH in two months

 

[OreKehStrah]

Is this innovation? I took a closer look at the ring magnets to assess this.
View attachment 26659

The box housing the magnets is the same size externally as the one for the spring version, but Internally there are different circular grooves to hold our secure the magnets in their positions.
View attachment 26657

Those who are engineers please confirm this or correct me if I'm wrong. I believe this ring-in-ring design has some advantage over others, as the ring magnets should be evenly held and stay in the centre (relative to the axle) as one is pushed towards the other. Simpler designs just have bare ring magnets under a screw, meaning the magnets could move sideways, and they could be noisier or perhaps cause uneven force in turning. There are expensive brands with well designed maglev systems, but this Guhong is $20. Tornado V3 Pioneer, interestingly has a design that deliberately pushes the ring magnets sideways when tension is adjusted. That to me also means weight is not evenly distributed, which could affect how smoothly the layers are turned. I'm not sure how important or innovative the design in the Guhong maglev system is, but it is working well.

In short, apart from a tiny bit of sharp edges and the visible marks on the faces of the pieces, I am impressed by the engineering design, which iswhat matters to its functionality.

I believe Gan has been doing this since the 12 where the rings were held so there is no horizontal shifting, but it's definitely great to see it at this much lower price point.

Great review, I just now bought one for myself (the 54mm standard) because I'll be competing in OH in two months

Just be warned that the magnet strength I find makes doing M moves a bit tough OH but still manageable.

 

[quanloh]

Those who are engineers please confirm this or correct me if I'm wrong. I believe this ring-in-ring design has some advantage over others, as the ring magnets should be evenly held and stay in the centre (relative to the axle) as one is pushed towards the other. Simpler designs just have bare ring magnets under a screw, meaning the magnets could move sideways, and they could be noisier or perhaps cause uneven force in turning. There are expensive brands with well designed maglev systems, but this Guhong is $20. Tornado V3 Pioneer, interestingly has a design that deliberately pushes the ring magnets sideways when tension is adjusted. That to me also means weight is not evenly distributed, which could affect how smoothly the layers are turned. I'm not sure how important or innovative the design in the Guhong maglev system is, but it is working well.

I dont have this cube, so the following is just my assumption base on photos.
The ring-in-ring design actually works similarly like the Moyu maglev system, just the magnetic force curve (i imagine) will be even steeper than normal maglev. This particular design introduce some sideway sliding/tilt too, so it's turning is not very rigid like Moyu's cube, but after turning, it should self-center itself due to the ring-in-ring design. If there is any noticeable advantage, i think it's gonna help in corner cutting, as it allow maybe 0.5~1 mm sideway movement when cornercutting. Moyu's does not seems to have this advantage, as it's magnets is pushing the cube flat into the core but no allowing many sideway movement for cornercutting. Again i am just guessing from the photos, you may push the cube U layer from sideway to see if any of my assumption is correct.

As for the Tornado V3 Pioneer, i dont think the weight & magnetic force unevenness will really be noticeable since it's so close to the center, aka moment arm is too small.

 

[Dan the Beginner]

I dont have this cube, so the following is just my assumption base on photos.
The ring-in-ring design actually works similarly like the Moyu maglev system, just the magnetic force curve (i imagine) will be even steeper than normal maglev. This particular design introduce some sideway sliding/tilt too, so it's turning is not very rigid like Moyu's cube, but after turning, it should self-center itself due to the ring-in-ring design. If there is any noticeable advantage, i think it's gonna help in corner cutting, as it allow maybe 0.5~1 mm sideway movement when cornercutting. Moyu's does not seems to have this advantage, as it's magnets is pushing the cube flat into the core but no allowing many sideway movement for cornercutting. Again i am just guessing from the photos, you may push the cube U layer from sideway to see if any of my assumption is correct.

As for the Tornado V3 Pioneer, i dont think the weight & magnetic force unevenness will really be noticeable since it's so close to the center, aka moment arm is too small.

Thanks. I think you are right. Some tilting of the ring magnet is possible, as the box as well the magnets inside can jiggle a little bit from some tilted turning, such as when the layer turned is forced out of shape and no longer in the same plane as the centre piece. There is also some magnetic reaction between the box and the other magnets inside the surrounding pieces, and that may also be a factor in this cube's behaviour. I know this because twice I have seen the whole box flips up side down when the locking piece on top of it is removed. It appears the magnets around are repelling the bottom (smaller) magnet and attracting the top (larger) ring magnet. Could repulsion be used as well in the design, depending on orientation of the magnets? When I said surrounding magnets, they may include the corner magnets. My mind giggles boggles thinking about it, if some engineer calculates all the attraction and repulsion force and optimising performance by selecting magnetic strength and varying their positions.

The extra $3 or so to get the Maglev version seems well worth it. I tried also the Spring version every so often, but the Maglev version is definitely what I prefer. The Spring version is looser and easier to turn, but not as controllable IMO. Now, I can see it is more preferable to the OH cubers, as it's needs less effort to turn and it's lighter at 66g (for the 54mm Spring version).

 

[quanloh]

Could repulsion be used as well in the design, depending on orientation of the magnets? When I said surrounding magnets, they may include the corner magnets. My mind giggles thinking about it, if some engineer calculates all the attraction and repulsion force and optimising performance by selecting magnetic strength and varying their positions.

Yes, the repulsion can be used, but that would indirectly increase the downward pushing force, thus making the "maglev strength" stronger.
That being said, I think the effect from the other magnets is very small, considering they are actually a little bit too far away to be significant. You can experiment by putting only the big/small ring piece in, check if you can find any significant resistance/attraction.
And as an engineer, if we need to solve such problem, we normally don't do too much calculation(in fact I dont know how), we will just build a prototype and test if the budget allows.

 

[Dan the Beginner]

Yes, the repulsion can be used, but that would indirectly increase the downward pushing force, thus making the "maglev strength" stronger.
That being said, I think the effect from the other magnets is very small, considering they are actually a little bit too far away to be significant. You can experiment by putting only the big/small ring piece in, check if you can find any significant resistance/attraction.
And as an engineer, if we need to solve such problem, we normally don't do too much calculation(in fact I dont know how), we will just build a prototype and test if the budget allows.

Thank you, quanloh, for your reply and info.

Correction in my previous message - My mind boggles (not giggles).

 

[TimCube]

I believe Gan has been doing this since the 12 where the rings were held so there is no horizontal shifting, but it's definitely great to see it at this much lower price point.

Just be warned that the magnet strength I find makes doing M moves a bit tough OH but still manageable.

I'll keep that in mind, but it shouldn't be a problem because I've been learning all the 2 gen PLL algorithms for OH. Only one more left, Z perm.

 

[Manxkiwi]

54mm Pro M arrived today. First impressions are very good. As mentioned, it has a similar feel and quiet action to the Tornado V2.
Certainly not dissappointed to have picked this one up. Also, less than a week delivery via Aliexpress, very impressive..

 

[Dan the Beginner]

54mm Pro M arrived today. First impressions are very good. As mentioned, it has a similar feel and quiet action to the Tornado V2.
Certainly not dissappointed to have picked this one up. Also, less than a week delivery via Aliexpress, very impressive..

Yours must be quieter than mine if it's similar to Tornado V2.

I understand that the earliest versions sent (for free) to well known cubers and YouTubers may be slightly different. I heard there have been minor final adjustments to the final versions shipped to paying customers. For example, the centre caps were found by some early testers to be too loose and could come off during solves. Another one was about the magnet and hence the auto alignment being quite strong. I believe these issues have since been addressed by the maker. I have not experienced any such problems.

 

[Dan the Beginner]

I finally disassembled my Guhong Pros completely, as it had become too gummy. I wiped all the pieces and all the surfaces clean. I relubricated the cube, including the orange axle that goes through each of the white cups that form the base of the centre pieces. I found that the centre hole of the cup and the orange axle can turn independently, depending on which layer is turning. I am happy to report that the process is easier than many other cubes, very easy in fact as long as you don't open the blue box housing the ring magnets or springs. If you do, then you had better have a way of working out the polarity of the magnets. I am not talking about having each pair of ring magnets repelling each other (which can be achieved in two different ways, ie N facing N, and, S facing S). You want to make sure the blue box when you put it back inside the centre piece is being repelled by the surrounding magnets. It should pop and turn upside down, if you put it in without holding it down. If not, you need to change the polarity of the ring magnets inside.

So far, I'm still very happy with this Maglev cube and will be ordering a backup, and probably a few more as gifts. My final thought - If you need a 54mm cube, this is it.

 

[Dan the Beginner]

Here's is some intensive testing. I guess this cube is actually good even for people who can do 20 TPS. So impressed. Thanks, Brian.

It's the 54mm Standard version, not Maglev, and with just 5 settings. This is starting to look embarrassing for some other cubes with tons of features.

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[Dan the Beginner]

It's been more than a month since my last post. I have been using this cube every day since. Here are my final thoughts.

I highly recommend the 54mm Maglev version. I hope the larger size ones are also as good for those who prefer a larger cube. Mine is set at "2" now and it is working better than all the other cubes I have. (The 1 setting can be catchy, though very occasionally.) All the rough edges and the cheap feel are now gone. My TPS and averages improved, and that I believe it's due to this cube. If nothing else, it made me want to solve and that in itself must have helped. I do believe the smooth turning has also helped, giving me confidence to turn faster or go rougher. The Standard spring version OTOH is just too loose for me and I just don't feel comfortable with it even after tightening it to the max. YMMV.

 

[Dan the Beginner]

Modding. I have put in 3x1 N35 magnets, as edge repelling magnets in a 54mm Guhong Pro Maglev, which is the best cube for my requirements. I wanted to see if it's possible to make it even better.

The effect is very subtle and one reason is that these are weak and thin magnets. I tried not to change it much, and just make tiny incremental changes, since the cube is working really well for me. I can detect a difference, when I compare it with another identical cube. It is a tiny bit snappier, the turning is a tiny bit less sluggish or more effortless. To make sure, I swapped the edge pieces with the magnets to the other cube and then checked again. The effect is there and I like it, although the difference is very small. The change in weight is minimal, barely 1g. I have ordered more magnets to test this, 3x1.5 N35, 3x1 N52 and 3x1.5 N52. I will try to find the optimal magnet strength. I suspect 3x1.5 N35 or 3x1 N52 will be all that's needed, for me, as I do not wish for a strong bumpy magnetic feel.

One advantage of the non-Maglev version of this Guhong cube, is it's totally effortless turning. However it is too loose for me, too easily warped and hence a problem occasionally for me. This mod helps to make the more stable Maglev version catch up slightly, IE lighter and snappier to turn. There were no problems before but every little bit of improvement helps. I noticed that M slices are improved

Please share your experience if your have tried this.

 

[Dan the Beginner]

You can't stop me talking about this cube!

For those who like to tinker and have the Tengyun V3 M, here is another modding idea, i.e. use that Tengyun's GES like system in this Guhong, if you want to have independent control over the axis distance and elasticity of the springs. Will it fit and work?

A few more thoughts/observations about this Guhong.

- It's the first time in any cubes when the Maglev version when turned feels the same as springs. There's little of that funny Maglev feel.

- It's the first time the Maglev version is slower and more controllable or more stable than the standard spring version. I think you can use stronger springs and get more stability if needed in the Standard version. I suspect this spring version is designed for OH and highly skilled cubers who can control loose and fast cubes.

I really think these two outcomes above, together with the low price and light weight (esp for ball core and Maglev cubes) are breakthroughs. You can choose Maglev to get rid of spring noise with negligible penalty in weight, cost, and change in turning feel. The control is, surprisingly, great for Maglev version. Most importantly, unlike other Maglev versions, these Guhongs are not crazy fast and hard to control, compared to their spring versions. Remember this control and excessive speed problem in the Tornado Pioneer and also in the top V9? People or cubers have spoken. They prefer their Spring versions instead, the Flagship and Picube SE versions respectively, and not those Maglev versions of those cubes. Now, finally, Maglev is actually working to improve cubing! I won't be surprised if others start copying the concentric ring magnet design now.

- Even the package is nice, no fancy bags, transparent boxes, cube stands, no screw driver or fancy tools that mean trouble if lost, and no robot or waistbands, ID cards with serial numbers (Rolex watch?) Or in other words no unnecessary costs. Your money goes into useful features and performance in the product.

- Releasing them in 54mm and 55mm instead of only in a larger size is a bold move. I can see the gamble and challenge in cost and stock management. It is paying off.

I say that this is the best and most important cube of all in 2023!

If your experience is different, then it may be due to sample variation, and special preferences. This is a cheap cube, considering all the features. Let's hope the success this time will bring more higher quality ones with similar designs from Dayan, and indeed from other major makers who are going astray.