CubingUSA Nationals 2017 - Fort Wayne, Indiana (July 7-9)

Very good response!
It is nice to know the reasoning for why this had to be done, at first I was very opposed to qualifications but now I am much less opposed to it because of your response, you should post this or link to it on the Nationals website/qualifications website. I hope you will continue to scale up Nationals and some year be able to catch up to the scale of the community.

Just my 2 cents, I feel like it is worth considering having volunteers judge like at local competition and having the staff scramble and take care of organizational matters, with plenty of oversight, I think it could be quite ensured that these volunteers would know what they are doing and not be a bad judge.
 
AlexMaass said:
Very good response!
It is nice to know the reasoning for why this had to be done, at first I was very opposed to qualifications but now I am much less opposed to it because of your response, you should post this or link to it on the Nationals website/qualifications website. I hope you will continue to scale up Nationals and some year be able to catch up to the scale of the community.

Just my 2 cents, I feel like it is worth considering having volunteers judge like at local competition and having the staff scramble and take care of organizational matters, with plenty of oversight, I think it could be quite ensured that these volunteers would know what they are doing and not be a bad judge.
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I don't know, I've seen waaaayyyy too many examples of terrible judges. It would save a lot of staff power at Nationals if we could have volunteer judges, but it also seems like too much of a risk (what if you can't get enough judges, or what if they do end up being really bad?).
 
DGCubes said:
I don't know, I've seen waaaayyyy too many examples of terrible judges. It would save a lot of staff power at Nationals if we could have volunteer judges, but it also seems like too much of a risk (what if you can't get enough judges, or what if they do end up being really bad?).
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That's why I said plenty of oversight, we could have 1 or 2 people at each stage closely watch the judges to make sure they are doing things right. Also a judge training and certification system could work out very well.

Also about the potential risks of shortages, it would be wise to take this slowly and safely, for example at one nationals try this out on a small scale to see if there is enough willing volunteers.
 
AlexMaass said:
That's why I said plenty of oversight, we could have 1 or 2 people at each stage closely watch the judges to make sure they are doing things right. Also a judge training and certification system could work out very well.

Also about the potential risks of shortages, it would be wise to take this slowly and safely, for example at one nationals try this out on a small scale to see if there is enough willing volunteers.
Click to expand...

A judge training system might be a good idea. I've only been to 1 competition myself and it was a very small one, but it had a lot of younger judges due to a lack of volunteers. Most of them were maybe 12 years or younger, and not saying that young people shouldn't be able to judge, but there should be some sort of way to make sure they know their stuff. At the comp one of the younger ones almost gave me a +2 on a pyraminx solve which clearly was not a +2. I had to call the delegate over because he was being a little stubborn which wasn't really a big deal because I don't really care about pyraminx, but something like that will most likely not be allowed at something as big as nationals.
 
Joel2274 said:
A judge training system might be a good idea. I've only been to 1 competition myself and it was a very small one, but it had a lot of younger judges due to a lack of volunteers. Most of them were maybe 12 years or younger, and not saying that young people shouldn't be able to judge, but there should be some sort of way to make sure they know their stuff. At the comp one of the younger ones almost gave me a +2 on a pyraminx solve which clearly was not a +2. I had to call the delegate over because he was being a little stubborn which wasn't really a big deal because I don't really care about pyraminx, but something like that will most likely not be allowed at something as big as nationals.
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I've only been to one competition, and I never had a problem myself, but I did observe one case where a judge simply left in the middle of a 7x7 solve. I believe that another judge stepped in and the solve was counted. most likely it should be sufficient to require delegates to approve any judges, but if making that a point of emphasis in training delegates is not sufficient then implementing a WCA-wide judge training protocol may be required.
 
Heyy I just thought of a good idea! Since there are qualifications and stuff. That means everyone has been to at least one comp. So shouldn't most people know how to judge?:):)
 
Joel2274 said:
A judge training system might be a good idea. I've only been to 1 competition myself and it was a very small one, but it had a lot of younger judges due to a lack of volunteers. Most of them were maybe 12 years or younger, and not saying that young people shouldn't be able to judge, but there should be some sort of way to make sure they know their stuff. At the comp one of the younger ones almost gave me a +2 on a pyraminx solve which clearly was not a +2. I had to call the delegate over because he was being a little stubborn which wasn't really a big deal because I don't really care about pyraminx, but something like that will most likely not be allowed at something as big as nationals.
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Yeah, I'm thinking a quiz of some sort that tests everything a judge should know should be implemented, maybe online or in person.
aybuck37 said:
Heyy I just thought of a good idea! Since there are qualifications and stuff. That means everyone has been to at least one comp. So shouldn't most people know how to judge?:):)
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Good point, especially since the regulations requires everyone to know how to judge https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#1e2.
 
The main reason we use a full staff of judges rather than working on volunteers is not so much in part due to our lack of trust in volunteers, but more due to the fact that we run a very strict, calculated schedule, and having volunteer judges means that we don't have full control over whether we can actually fill a station at all times. Volunteers are free to leave their station at will, and so losing a judge and having to call up more volunteers is a hassle and wastes time of the staff when they should be tending to their own jobs. It's a nice consequence that our staff typically will be a higher quality judge than a volunteer.

Rather than having a volunteer system, the better way moving forward may be to look into part-time staff members who help only on the days where we need the extra help the most -- say, 2x2 and 3x3 round 1. It does create a bit of a hassle in scheduling though, and we'll see how our staff recruitment goes this year (and in future years!) to determine if we need to look into this.
 
Kit Clement said:
The main reason we use a full staff of judges rather than working on volunteers is not so much in part due to our lack of trust in volunteers, but more due to the fact that we run a very strict, calculated schedule, and having volunteer judges means that we don't have full control over whether we can actually fill a station at all times. Volunteers are free to leave their station at will, and so losing a judge and having to call up more volunteers is a hassle and wastes time of the staff when they should be tending to their own jobs. It's a nice consequence that our staff typically will be a higher quality judge than a volunteer.

Rather than having a volunteer system, the better way moving forward may be to look into part-time staff members who help only on the days where we need the extra help the most -- say, 2x2 and 3x3 round 1. It does create a bit of a hassle in scheduling though, and we'll see how our staff recruitment goes this year (and in future years!) to determine if we need to look into this.
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Aw that's true. Haha I'm just throwing ideas out there. How about having Nats at many venues like FMC usa. Crazy idea and I know alot of you won't agree but just trying to brainstorm lol
 
Joel2274 said:
A judge training system might be a good idea. I've only been to 1 competition myself and it was a very small one, but it had a lot of younger judges due to a lack of volunteers. Most of them were maybe 12 years or younger, and not saying that young people shouldn't be able to judge, but there should be some sort of way to make sure they know their stuff. At the comp one of the younger ones almost gave me a +2 on a pyraminx solve which clearly was not a +2. I had to call the delegate over because he was being a little stubborn which wasn't really a big deal because I don't really care about pyraminx, but something like that will most likely not be allowed at something as big as nationals.
Click to expand...
In 5x5 second round of Aus Nats, the kid that judged me didn't call 12 seconds, when I asked why, he said he was watching Feliks, do we want something like that happening at US Nats Finals?
 
FastCubeMaster said:
In 5x5 second round of Aus Nats, the kid that judged me didn't call 12 seconds, when I asked why, he said he was watching Feliks, do we want something like that happening at US Nats Finals?
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Yeah I totally think that cubers with over a decade of experience like Bob Burton or Tim Reynolds will do this and therefore we can't trust them to judge US Nats finals as they have done many times in the past. /s
 
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