Best/fastest Last Layer (F2L + LL) 3x3 (Mainly CFOP)

[Bunyanderman]

Many different methods than oll and pll on the last layer are in question and becoming popular, as people get more advanced and faster.
To start with the last layer methods, you can influence the last layer on how you insert the last pair.
This being WV = Winter Variation or VHLS(edge control.)

WV orientates all of the corners on the last layer while inserting the last pair, and VHLS orientates the last layer edges while inserting the last pair(while many cases in VHLS take more moves to insert last pair and orientate just edges, than to insert last pair and perform oll normally). Does this mean you can always solve orientate the last layer while inserting the last pair. Yes you can, but with a unreasonable amount of moves to do so.

Getting down to learning COLL or ZBLL, they can be very controversially useful. COLL will orientate the corners and solve the them (useful if edges are orientated (Note you can not use COLL if you use WV because the corners will be orientated, and many people don't learn COLL for the sune cases because the are to awkward to preform fast .)) ZBLL if very useful if one does completely memorizes and recognizes the patter given, ZBLL (493 algorithms needed.) will completely solve the last layer given the edges are orientated. Only a handful of people have tried using and memorizing ZBLL and many times the can't always remember what case goes with what algorithm.

So what are the best styles to be combined to form the fastest/best last layer? This is where the community comes into place, so please voice your opinion.
(I believe partial edge control + COLL + ZBLL for sune/anti-sune)

 

[Kirjava]

best proven system is currently OLL/PLL with random extra stuff

best potential system in my opinion is the flowcharting abstract LL thing I was working on

 

[kcl]

Well, COLL/ELL can be fast I know, but generally OLL PLL is best.

 

[Lchu613]

best proven system is currently OLL/PLL with random extra stuff

best potential system in my opinion is the flowcharting abstract LL thing I was working on

Where? I'm interested. Flowcharts are kewl.

 

[TheOneOnTheLeft]

Where? I'm interested. Flowcharts are kewl.

There's a link in his sig.

 

[TDM]

Well, COLL/ELL can be fast I know, but generally OLL PLL is best.

CLL/ELL. COLL when you're ignoring edges would have too many extra unnecessary moves.

I've been thinking about this for ZZ. I'm thinking WV is probably best for 2H and some variant of ZZ-d for OH.

 

[kcl]

CLL/ELL. COLL when you're ignoring edges would have too many extra unnecessary moves.

I've been thinking about this for ZZ. I'm thinking WV is probably best for 2H and some variant of ZZ-d for OH.

Sorry, CLL!

 

[mDiPalma]

Why don't people ever consider OCELL/CPLL after F2L+EO?

 

[Bunyanderman]

Why don't people ever consider OCELL/CPLL after F2L+EO?

Interesting... This would seem to work better on the ZZ method but you would need dedication to learn and the 2-look last layer is still not very good, once you preform OCELL then you might get a nasty E-Perm and that it terrible to preform. Although this might be useful for OH because orientating the corners and permuting edges is 2-gen.

 

[Username]

nasty E-Perm and that it terrible to preform.

If you know how to perform it correctly it isn't bad at all. Actually one of my favourite PLL's


I still like OLL/PLL though

 

[scottishcuber]

Why don't people ever consider OCELL/CPLL after F2L+EO?

You think OCELL is better than COLL in terms of recognition and speed?

EPLL is definitely better than CPLL.

 

[Bunyanderman]

If you know how to perform it correctly it isn't bad at all. Actually one of my favourite PLL'

I still like OLL/PLL though

That's a thought but what would you like to have a U-perm or E-Perm?

 

[TDM]

Why don't people ever consider OCELL/CPLL after F2L+EO?

All 2-look LL methods are going to take about the same time to do, with the exception of ones where one stage is 2-gen, which is better for OH. OCELL/CPLL isn't going to be that much faster than OLL/PLL, and the same with COLL/EPLL. The fastest methods are probably ones where you affect LL during F2L, but not enough to slow you down by very much.

 

[uberCuber]

That's a thought but what would you like to have a U-perm or E-Perm?

A fairer comparison would be Z perm with E perm. You shouldn't compare two sets by specifying the worst case from one set and good cases from the other.

 

[Bunyanderman]

A fairer comparison would be Z perm with E perm. You shouldn't compare two sets by specifying the worst case from one set and good cases from the other.

Yes I understand that seemed unfair, a fair comparison would be A-perm and U-perm. U-perm seems better any way you put it.

 

[TDM]

Yes I understand that seem unfair, a fair comparison would be A-perm and U-perm. U-perm seems better any way you put it.

Not any way. The HTM optimal A perm is faster than the optimal U perm. But other than that, U perms are better. But remember OCEPLL is 2-gen, and COLL isn't.

 

[Username]

Yes I understand that seem unfair, a fair comparison would be A-perm and U-perm. U-perm seems better any way you put it.

A-perm > U-perm for me

 

[mDiPalma]

A-perm > U-perm for me

Same

for me:
A>U (~.7 sec vs ~1 sec)
E=Z
H=H

I tried once to learn OCELL, but the recognition was not compatible with my COLL recognition habits, thus taking longer for me.

But I'm confident that OCELL/CPLL is superior to COLL/EPLL with regards to execution, at least.

And if you spent enough time adapting to the weird (but easy) OCELL recognition, it very likely would be approximately as quick as COLL recognition.

 

[Bunyanderman]

Same

for me:
A>U (~.7 sec vs ~1 sec)
E=Z
H=H

I tried once to learn OCELL, but the recognition was not compatible with my COLL recognition habits, thus taking longer for me.

But I'm confident that OCELL/CPLL is superior to COLL/EPLL with regards to execution, at least.

And if you spent enough time adapting to the weird (but easy) OCELL recognition, it very likely would be approximately as quick as COLL recognition.

Everyone Is different and I think it is good that we have different opinions, to show the most effective method for the variety of different solving styles.

 

[EMI]

Not any way. The HTM optimal A perm is faster than the optimal U perm. But other than that, U perms are better. But remember OCEPLL is 2-gen, and COLL isn't.

I believe my htm optimal U-perms and A-perms are appr. the same time. My M slice U-perms are quite a bit faster of course.