[Unofficial] 8.16 second 3x3 solve (with scramble and solution)

[Stefan]

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?p=306128#post306128

Hmm... so what happened to that plan?

Probably the same as what happened to this plan. Calmed down and got reasonable before it was too late.

 

[Carrot]

omg why so suspious about the difference between average and PB??

I'm averaging about 17.xx but PB average of 12 is 13.92.. and fastest NON-lucky single is 9.65... and I have still got some 7's with scrambles that had really easy x-cross... but yeah... I don't get why he is blamed SO much for his inconsistentness... I'm like even worse.. I sometimes have averages with times like: 11, 14, 28, 12, 26, 13 etc...

It's not really the inconsistency that is the issue. For me at least. I am the queen of inconsistency. I think it would just do him a favour to post a video in an average of 5 format or something so that people can see his cubing without flaming. People would be more inclined to say nice things if they could see he was having a more encouraging attitude towards speedsolving. He decided to post this lucky solve, there is no reason why he wouldn't, he provides the scramble and solution and that's great, that's exactly what anyone else would do. It's also refreshing that he says he isn't counting it as his PB as it's ridiculous, yet another improvement since the "my PB is 0.02 for 2x2" stage. He's getting better. It's just the fact that yet again it arouses suspicion about how legit it is, given that he bizarrely chooses to create a scramble in cube explorer (the functions of which we are aware of ) then time in CCT, which provides scrambles anyway.

He is fully aware of the reaction to his previous fast videos and yet still decided to post yet another questionable solve, rather than a more usual measure of his ability. Why don't you do that Ben? Seriously, it wouldn't half stop the hating.

woops... =D I know that you are inconsistency queen so it was actually not for you ;D but someone posted something like... "he is averaging 20, there is no way he can get sub9!" (didn't bother to find it =D)

but I think we should hate him inside our heads and only blame him for the things that actually happens IN the video... not what happened in the last video... it's just stupid. Like Feliks... how many said "OMFG HE CHEATED WITH A SOLVED CROSS FOR EVERY SOLVES!!" or something like that when his WR average got posted... huh?

I know it seems unreasonable to post this kind of videos when he knows it went really wrong last time he did it and I agree that I would rather see him do an average than this.. =)

 

[Stefan]

I mean it's not difficult to put the cube down and act as if you are amazed, especially with your face out of shot.

How does that explain "The way he reacted after the solve made it looks very, very suspicious"?

1: Ben has had a history of faked solves, which he has quickly removed from Youtube so suspicions are aroused immediately.

Are you talking about those that were the subject of the "so there's this kid on youtube" thread full of hate and unspeakably false reasoning on the part of the haters?

2: He averages 20 seconds, so a sub-9 solve is quite far out of his range, even for a really lucky solve.

Huh? I averaged 18 seconds when I got my official 9.56 with a less lucky solve. Also, why do you say he averages 20 seconds? He did average 20 seconds *in competition* almost three months ago and on his youtube channel he says he now averages 18 seconds.

3: He generated the scramble from CubeExplorer, yet he has CCT open. Why bother creating a scramble with CE, just to time in CCT?

Maybe because CE produces better and shorter scrambles? Also, during that old hate incidence I advised him to not use hand-scrambles anymore and to use WCA-style scrambles. And what does WCA require for 3x3x3? Hmm?

 

[Lucas Garron]

Au contraire, mon ami. It can actually help to prove faking! I'm including CE scrambles in my timer using Herbert's Java package, but I don't do the extra work and mistake of reversing the found solution. So if someone naive uses CE to generate fake scrambles the obvious way and claims it came from my timer... well, how likely is it that a CE generator has the structure of a CE solve? I'd say even much much less likely than that a 25 moves CE generator was produced by current CCT. It might actually very well be impossible.

Invert and set the automatic bounds high? It's hard to hit 25, but 24 is doable at least.

 

[Muesli]

A leopard can't change it's spots. He's lied before, and has never come up with a valid rebuttal, in this thread or any others. I think our suspicions are reasonable.

 

[Deleted member 2864]

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?p=306128#post306128

Hmm... so what happened to that plan?

Probably the same as what happened to this plan. Calmed down and got reasonable before it was too late.

Meh I suppose. Though I was just trying to poke fun and that wasn't serious

Also, I believe that this IS in fact real, though it's a silly video IMO.

At 17 or 19 seconds, sub 10 IS perfectly reasonable as a PB, especially with this lucky solve.


Oh yeah, just in case... I'm not saying all his videos are real. I think that many of his old ones are fake, but I see no reason for flames on this video... maybe a few, "what's the point of this?" posts, but no flames or insults... though I do think Ben has a pretty pathetic attitude at times.

 

[Stefan]

There are a bunch of R U R' moves in it, for example at 0:45

Too fast for me to see. Anyway... are you really saying that it's abnormal to end up with the right hand like that after you just did U R'? In my opinion, that's *expected*.

 

[Carrot]

There are a bunch of R U R' moves in it, for example at 0:45

Too fast for me to see. Anyway... are you really saying that it's abnormal to end up with the right hand like that after you just did U R'? In my opinion, that's *expected*.

I would like Pochmann say it's expected...

 

[Stefan]

People would be more inclined to say nice things if they could see he was having a more encouraging attitude towards speedsolving.

Need reminding of how he was introduced/welcomed here? With all the hate and even an intended organized bullying campaign, based on lots of very poor judgement? Yeah, quite possibly he could present himself better and show more stuff to please us, but I can certainly understand if that's not what he want.

 

[Olivér Perge]

There are a bunch of R U R' moves in it, for example at 0:45

Too fast for me to see. Anyway... are you really saying that it's abnormal to end up with the right hand like that after you just did U R'? In my opinion, that's *expected*.

For me it is. Well, not the whole hand, only the index finger. It points up, however for the many of us it points mostly forward (I just watched a few videos to see that.). It is weird beacuse it feels unconfortable a bit (for me at least) at not at all fast (there is no reason to put the finger far away from the cube).

Only case I know of when I do that is the middle T permutation. But that's different, I know the moves for that algorithm. In that case, it is indeed expected.

I'm not saying it is a 100% evidence for anything, and it doesn't even matter. It's a home made video, and yet has no significance. However I do think it's not accaptable to post fake videos on youtube from this community, we have enough haters from outside, no need to feed them.

I think the best way to get rid of fake videos is to ignore them. We have our own faker in Hungary, the more attention he gets the more pleased he is.

 

[Stefan]

Invert and set the automatic bounds high? It's hard to hit 25, but 24 is doable at least.

You're talking about making a CE generator look like a CE solve, right? No need for high bounds there. But yes, inverting must be done. And yes, it's not all that hard to do. But that's why I said "naive", which I believe many if not most of these cheaters are. I believe most will right away fail to realize that CE generators are clearly distinguishable from CE solves. And even if they know it, they must still understand how to cheat and then do it. So...

Cheating using CE generator claiming it's a random 25 moves scramble:
- Easy to do
- Length needs to be cared for
- Easy to prove it's most likely fake

Cheating using CE generator claiming it's a CE solve:
- Easy to do
- Needs inversion
- Easy to prove it's fake

 

[CharlieCooper]

People would be more inclined to say nice things if they could see he was having a more encouraging attitude towards speedsolving.

Need reminding of how he was introduced/welcomed here? With all the hate and even an intended organized bullying campaign, based on lots of very poor judgement? Yeah, quite possibly he could present himself better and show more stuff to please us, but I can certainly understand if that's not what he want.

How do you know it was "poor" judgement? Surely it's just a "judgement" because we don't really know if was a good or bad one.

I don't think it would necessarily be just to please us that Ben would post a video more along the lines of "this is my current average". It would do him a lot of favours. I appreciate that this is merely my opinion, but surely he can see that too. I'm only trying to help him in this situation really, I think he's done a lot of things that people have suggested to gain some credibility. He isn't making as many videos, he is providing scrambles and he is providing solutions. Unless he really wants that much bad feeling about him, I think it would be a wise move.

It's true, we shouldn't just moan at him due to his track record, but it's hard to forgive and forget for a lot of people. Any issue I have with Ben has been magnified due to other communication we have had outside of this forum, so forgiving and forgetting is not just quite as simple.

Several are still calling our now WR holder a cheat because of his pre-made cross videos but that hasn't stopped him from succeeding. I hope Ben can achieve similar things but think he would have far more support in doing so if he was wiser in the comments he made and the videos he posted.

 

[ChrisBird]

People would be more inclined to say nice things if they could see he was having a more encouraging attitude towards speedsolving.

Need reminding of how he was introduced/welcomed here? With all the hate and even an intended organized bullying campaign, based on lots of very poor judgement? Yeah, quite possibly he could present himself better and show more stuff to please us, but I can certainly understand if that's not what he want.

Using my own experience, and it's outcomes, as a basis for this opinion, posting videos and making posts like a normal member would will get him much farther then just posting questionable videos on here.

 

[Stefan]

He's lied before

Proof, please?

and has never come up with a valid rebuttal

Most if not all of the accusations I've seen were so obviously flawed they were rebutted simply by properly thinking about the so-called evidence. Plus in that "this kid on youtube" thread, he simply arrived way after I (and some others) had rebutted a lot already. And... "he never came up with a valid rebuttal"? Well... as far as I remember, the haters never came up with an apology. Hate and flame, be shown wrong, then silently move away. Admirable and inspiring!

Also... do I try to prove myself to all the haters commenting on my youtube videos? No, I don't. Should I? No, I don't care about them. I only find that natural, don't you?

I think our suspicions are reasonable.

I think you're a stubborn hater.

 

[CharlieCooper]

Don't think we were actually proved right or wrong in our "accusations"... were we?

 

[Stefan]

How do you know it was "poor" judgement? Surely it's just a "judgement" because we don't really know if was a good or bad one.

No, I really do mean poor judgement. Lots of things were unclear and were judged in negative ways when they should've have been. That by itself is poor. There were numerious violations of "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance" (yeah, I replaced stupidity with ignorance because it's more appropriate). Examples:

- His list of records included lucky singles (without saying they were lucky) and people based their arguments on thinking they were non-lucky singles cause they themselves wouldn't count lucky solves as records. In my opinion, he just didn't know that.

- People said his scrambles are so poor quality they must be fake. Turned out they were hand-scrambles, apparently cause he didn't know better.

- People said he claimed to have set world records when he never did. He claimed fast times, but *they* added that he called them world records. They mixed up official and unofficial, too.

People carelessly misinterpreted things and even fabricated false evidence. And then this stuff got repeated and exaggerated. All in all, I think didn't see a single statement of him that couldn't reasonably be explained by innocent mistakes and not being familiar with how we do things. But there were tons of clearly false statements of people who really should've known better. Btw, this was all covered in that old thread that you yourself started. Did you miss this all?

 

[Deleted member 2864]

Nothing gets by Stefan

 

[CharlieCooper]

How do you know it was "poor" judgement? Surely it's just a "judgement" because we don't really know if was a good or bad one.

No, I really do mean poor judgement. Lots of things were unclear and were judged in negative ways when they should've have been. That by itself is poor. There were numerious violations of "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance" (yeah, I replaced stupidity with ignorance because it's more appropriate). Examples:

- His list of records included lucky singles (without saying they were lucky) and people based their arguments on thinking they were non-lucky singles cause they themselves wouldn't count lucky solves as records. In my opinion, he just didn't know that.

- People said his scrambles are so poor quality they must be fake. Turned out they were hand-scrambles, apparently cause he didn't know better.

- People said he claimed to have set world records when he never did. He claimed fast times, but *they* added that he called them world records. They mixed up official and unofficial, too.

People carelessly misinterpreted things and even fabricated false evidence. And then this stuff got repeated and exaggerated. All in all, I think didn't see a single statement of him that couldn't reasonably be explained by innocent mistakes and not being familiar with how we do things. But there were tons of clearly false statements of people who really should've known better. Btw, this was all covered in that old thread that you yourself started. Did you miss this all?

It's not that I missed it, I just interpreted it differently to you, which is why in some cases I wouldn't consider it poor judgement at all. Just because something, by your standards, could be "explained by innocent mistakes..." doesn't mean it couldn't either. I understand what you are saying, but having dealt with Ben far more than you have, I am entitled to form my opinions somewhat differently and if necessary, not offer the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Innocence]

I agree with Stephan, and Charlie, to some degree. Accusations and gossip can get out of hand very fast, and before long they can snowball to complete malice without foundation, long after the accused cleans up their act.

Ben: The best idea right now would be to stop posting lucky singles, and just post averages of 5 or 12 right now.

Charlie: Which WR holder were you referring to a few posts back?

 

[Meep]

I agree with Stephan, and Charlie, to some degree. Accusations and gossip can get out of hand very fast, and before long they can snowball to complete malice without foundation, long after the accused cleans up their act.

Ben: The best idea right now would be to stop posting lucky singles, and just post averages of 5 or 12 right now.

Charlie: Which WR holder were you referring to a few posts back?

Feliks