2x2 BLD questions

[InternetTom]

I'm with the hawk here.

 

[tim]

So: You guys rather want to add an extra step to your bld method to avoid complexity? The thing is: Leaving out the orientation step doesn't add complexity at all. Permutating is exactly the same thing: Memorize 8 corners and set up the corners by paying attention to the stickers. That's it.

Believing in those complexities sounds like believing in god to me.

 

[InternetTom]

Tim, I agree that Orienting and permuting at the same time is better, but for memo I can remember the orienting really easy without thinking about it and permuting than becomes simpler. I totally agree with you as far as execution goes but I prefer my memo technique which works better for orienting than permuting.

BTW excellent comparison their.

 

[blah]

... but I prefer my memo technique which works better for orienting than permuting.

Uhh, so? That's not a valid argument against a permutation-only method. We know your CP memo sucks (like mine), and your CO memo rocks (unlike mine), but either way you still have to go through the sucky process of memorizing CP, so just work on your sucky step and it'll improve with time, rather than lean on an easy step and leave your sucky step sucky as ever.

BTW excellent comparison their.

Nice typo their. And I like the comparison too

 

[hawkmp4]

So: You guys rather want to add an extra step to your bld method to avoid complexity? The thing is: Leaving out the orientation step doesn't add complexity at all. Permutating is exactly the same thing: Memorize 8 corners and set up the corners by paying attention to the stickers. That's it.

Believing in those complexities sounds like believing in god to me.

That's like telling a beginner, one look PLL is simpler because you just do it in one step, instead of worrying about corners then edges.

 

[joey]

Not really. It is different.
CP only _isn't_ harder than CO and CP.

 

[MistArts]

1.Let say you are using 3-cycle or 2-cycle.

2.Let say you orient first

If you orient first you still have to set up the piece like permuting stickers.

But...

3.Let say you didn't orient first and only memorized the permutation of the stickers.

You still setup the pieces but only this time, you setup the stickers. So it's the same amount of memorization to memorize the the pemutation. But orienting first requires the memorization of the orientation.

So. Memorization: Orienting first < permuting stickers

Now on to execution.

Orienting first has to do orienting first (duh...) but both of them has to do permuting (duh...). But permuting stickers is only permuting stickers and therefore has less to execute.

So. Execution: Orienting first < permuting stickers

Overall: Orienting first < permuting stickers

 

[tim]

But permuting stickers is on permuting stickers and therefore has less to execute.

Sorry, uhm what?

 

[MistArts]

But permuting stickers is on permuting stickers and therefore has less to execute.

Sorry, uhm what?

on is supposed to be only. I fixed it now.

 

[hawkmp4]

Okay...then...how do I remember orientation along with permutation?

 

[joey]

You don't. You just remember permutation of 'stickers'.

 

[MistArts]

NO...Only permutation...of the stickers.

 

[Hubdra]

as an example, your FR sticker (which for me is Green-Red), is totally different than your RF sticker (which for me is Red-Green). They change what setup moves you use, because you're permuting them differently.

except those are edges. I got lazy and didn't do a corner as an example, but I hope you can understand the main premise.

 

[yurivish]

How long should the setup moves be, on average? I've never done a cube blindfolded before and I tried doing this while looking (cycling stickers) and the setup moves were fairly convoluted. I was using a J perm, though; is it easier swapping, say, the two opposite corners on two different layers?

 

[joey]

Yes, thats why you use a conjugated Y perm.
F' Y-perm F

2 on average or so, 3 is the max for Y-perm corners.

 

[tim]

Yes, thats why you use a conjugated Y perm.
F' Y-perm F

2 on average or so, 3 is the max for Y-perm corners.

No, 2 is the maximum and the average is between 1 and 2 moves.

 

[philkt731]

I always thought that if you are going to memorize stickers for corners (ie no, orientation), why wouldn't you just use commutators? Its so many less move, a little more thinking, and definitely faster

 

[MistArts]

I always thought that if you are going to memorize stickers for corners (ie no, orientation), why wouldn't you just use commutators? Its so many less move, a little more thinking, and definitely faster

Some people don't bother learning commutators?

 

[philkt731]

But theyre the most intuitive and optimal thing ever! Its just insert, replace, uninsert, unreplace, or replace, insert, unreplace, uninsert

 

[Mike Hughey]

I think it's just the "a little more thinking" part that keeps people away from commutators. It takes quite a bit of practice to get really fast with them, and you can get faster much more quickly with some of the other methods.

But eventually you can get quite fast with commutators; good example - Chris Hardwick. It just takes a lot of practice.