ZZ brag (unrelated tips appreciated!)

[MM99]

I don't care if I "strengthen your point" considering your point is so silly.

I'm not getting "shook up" over anything so don't even bother making assumptions about my attitude (Especially if you're going to completely ignore the points I made and dismiss it as just another opinion"). If anything, you're the one who's "shook up" considering how overly defensive you are of someone who seems to have been dishonest about his times. Don't even bother responding to this post if you're not going to rebut any of my points and just call me an internet warrior. Interesting choice of insult btw, considering you're arguing via the internet as well

I didn't want to make a big deal out of this but I guess I have to now... In regards to your points in your previous post about how the people have a good reason for doubting him because he hasn't shown any proof and a lot of the skeptics are 'accomplished cubers' so that means they have the right to determine myth from fact and immediately shoot anyone without proof down because these people know everything about cubing even it's full potential and know for a fact that his claims are impossible right? This is absurd no one could possibly know that not even the most decorated cubers because we haven't reached the full capabilities or potential of speed cubing but what we do know for a fact is that a 5.xx avg isn't too ridiculous if a fast solver like Faz, Mats, etc. learned zbll... Faz is also proof that these kinds of speed gains that al3x claims are possible because Faz went from zero to hero with the wr avg in around 2 years if I'm not mistaken. So I'm not ruling out any possibilities... we already know a few people who have learned full zbll and perhaps al3x is the first example of how zbll can be used practically in a speed solve but now we may never know because the skeptical 'accomplished' cubers shot him down. And yes I am calling you the warrior because you waged war on me man, I had no intentions of engaging in this hostile war zone known as the internet

 

[Bindedsa]

I didn't want to make a big deal out of this but I guess I have to now... In regards to your points in your previous post about how the people have a good reason for doubting him because he hasn't shown any proof and a lot of the skeptics are 'accomplished cubers' so that means they have the right to determine myth from fact and immediately shoot anyone without proof down because these people know everything about cubing even it's full potential and know for a fact that his claims are impossible right? This is absurd no one could possibly know that not even the most decorated cubers because we haven't reached the full capabilities or potential of speed cubing but what we do know for a fact is that a 5.xx avg isn't too ridiculous if a fast solver like Faz, Mats, etc. learned zbll... Faz is also proof that these kinds of speed gains that al3x claims are possible because Faz went from zero to hero with the wr avg in around 2 years if I'm not mistaken. So I'm not ruling out any possibilities... we already know a few people who have learned full zbll and perhaps al3x is the first example of how zbll can be used practically in a speed solve but now we may never know because the skeptical 'accomplished' cubers shot him down. And yes I am calling you the warrior because you waged war on me man, I had no intentions of engaging in this hostile war zone known as the internet

You replied to a thread, saying what you think. Then continued to argue that you were right when others disagreed with you. Jay is as much of an internet warrior as you in any reasonable persons eyes. You in no way were forced to post in this thread, let a lone reply twice, that is engaging if anything is. No one is saying it is impossible for those times to be achieved, they are saying that any one at that level is very impressive and I can't think of anyone who would just accept this. Perhaps you did, but that just means you are very gullible.

 

[DeeDubb]

No one is saying it is impossible for those times to be achieved, they are saying that any one at that level is very impressive and I can't think of anyone who would just accept this. Perhaps you did, but that just means you are very gullible.

Regardless of how difficult it is to believe his times, there is a level of tact and courtesy that should be afforded to someone even if they make these kind of claims. Most people in here have been pretty tactful in their skepticism; some have not.

 

[scottishcuber]

Idk if al3x still reads this thread but I'd just like to clarify that all the people that have been skeptical or just straight up saying his times are fake are most likely jealous, or envious towards al3x simply because it's a feat that they think is impossible or too much work etc.

I'm not jealous. Why would I be jealous when I average low7 on a good day with full ZB?

I learnt full ZBLL in ~2 months and really my times rival the best cubers in the world, so I ain't even jealous. I don't care if people don't believe me.

Haters you best believe me or I won't post a vid or nothing.

Spoiler

I'm just trying to make the point that his claims are quite unbelievable and they far outshadow his request for ZZ help. Initially this thread was very patient and helpful and polite when it came to requesting a video so they could see someone using full ZB; which would be very impressive if it were true. However, consistently making excuses to not make a vid based on the fact that too many people wanted to see a vid as evidence only makes sense if he was lying about his times.

If you are trying to portray this community as one which follows claims based on zero evidence, or as one which fully accepts liars who continue to lie and refuse to answer for themselves then that is a community I don't want to be a part of.

If you look at this objectively, there is no reason to believe him and every reason to think he is lying. I for one won't 'love to help you in I way I can' if he is a liar, and I don't understand how you can support him so diligently.

 

[aznanimedude]

I didn't want to make a big deal out of this but I guess I have to now... In regards to your points in your previous post about how the people have a good reason for doubting him because he hasn't shown any proof and a lot of the skeptics are 'accomplished cubers' so that means they have the right to determine myth from fact and immediately shoot anyone without proof down because these people know everything about cubing even it's full potential and know for a fact that his claims are impossible right? This is absurd no one could possibly know that not even the most decorated cubers because we haven't reached the full capabilities or potential of speed cubing but what we do know for a fact is that a 5.xx avg isn't too ridiculous if a fast solver like Faz, Mats, etc. learned zbll... Faz is also proof that these kinds of speed gains that al3x claims are possible because Faz went from zero to hero with the wr avg in around 2 years if I'm not mistaken. So I'm not ruling out any possibilities... we already know a few people who have learned full zbll and perhaps al3x is the first example of how zbll can be used practically in a speed solve but now we may never know because the skeptical 'accomplished' cubers shot him down. And yes I am calling you the warrior because you waged war on me man, I had no intentions of engaging in this hostile war zone known as the internet

Not quite. What he is saying is more of, how are these accomplished fibers unaware of someone with world class time in multiple categories. Faz did not quite "come out of the blue", as he was actively participating in the curbing community and thus people could if they wanted track and see how fast he was improving.

These people have also seen a lot of people make claims and either fail to back it up when asked to justify it ir have been debunked hence the resistance to just quickly accept it.

Now that doesn't mean its impossible for a scenario like this to occur, just that its so unlikely to.

Absolutely no one would have a problem if he was able to legitimately justify it.

 

[Kirjava]

Idk if al3x still reads this thread but I'd just like to clarify that all the people that have been skeptical or just straight up saying his times are fake are most likely jealous, or envious towards al3x simply because it's a feat that they think is impossible or too much work etc.

We are highly aware that it is not impossible. It's more likely that the people you think are jealous (implying they believe the times) are just very interested in viewing this performed. We like watching cubing videos! Especially interesting ones! It would be fun to watch another person that is mad fast to see what his style is like. We've not even seen someone execute ZBLL like this before - it would be groundbreaking if posted.

People have aired doubts about the legitimacy of this and this is normal in this community. People making false claims happens fairly regularly so we are wary of it. It's absolutly fine because it's very easy to provide evidence or proof of claims if you are able to do so. Requesting something to remove all controversy is the plan of action that needs to be taken in a situation like this; we would no longer be discussing this and could move on.

So then they just start ripping him apart on the internet with no knowledge of who he really is as a person and it's just sickening really it is...

I have re read through this entire thread and the behaviour exhibited is far from 'ripping him apart'. Mostly it's just people saying they're a bit skeptical and actually praising his times.

When people have pointed out inconsistancies and weird things about claims being made instead of having them explained they have been met with condemnation from people like al3x or yourself simply wishing that we do not question him/her at all. There is nothing wrong with questioning things like this, especially when there are multiple things that don't seem to add up.

I mean, if that's sickening I'd love to see what you think of what I get up to on the weekends.

Now you're probably saying well that's the internet grow up.. Really? this is what the internet has done to society? A place where you can go and just lash out on any being they choose and receive no consequences. This is just wrong and you would think that a community so specialized as cubing is would be a little nicer to one another because we are such a small group

The problem comes when the skepticism is seen as an affront and has to be defended. This causes things to heat up and turn into an argument, when it should have simply been accepted.

If you think someone has been "lashing out" what you need to do is report the post to the moderator and they will deal with it if that is necessary. However, I don't think anyone has crossed the line and since moderators will have read this thread, I don't think they think that either.

and yes the occasional harping al3x for a video is understandable because it is exciting to think that someone has learned full 1LLL but we shouldn't just be telling him upload or you're a liar (except much harsher obviously)

Can you show me an example of someone being extremely harsh going about saying this? Like I said, I re read the thread and cannot find it. I'm inclined to think that you are lying about this and exaggerating to add some weight to your argument. If you can show me a particularly bad example I'll rescind this idea.

 

[stoic]

I mean, if that's sickening I'd love to see what you think of what I get up to on the weekends.

Video or it didn't happen

On second thoughts...nah. Just leave it.

 

[ElectricDoodie]

Idk if al3x still reads this thread but I'd just like to clarify that all the people that have been skeptical or just straight up saying his times are fake are most likely jealous, or envious towards al3x simply because it's a feat that they think is impossible or too much work etc.

Lol I'm not here to start a fight with any internet warriors I just simply stated my beliefs to why al3x is receiving this hatred from the community, and you are entitled to your own opinion as everyone else is but when you get all shook up like that and say he is getting this poor treatment because he hasn't uploaded any proof just strengthens my point...

This is one of the dumbest posts I've read in a while. Especially the part where you use the term "internet warrior."
Grow up.

 

[FJT97]

This is one of the dumbest posts I've read in a while. Especially the part where you use the term "internet warrior."
Grow up.

yep, imo too.

 

[mDiPalma]

I have re read through this entire thread and the behaviour exhibited is far from 'ripping him apart'. Mostly it's just people saying they're a bit skeptical and actually praising his times.

You obviously can't read then bro.

A condensed map of the criticisms:

Spoiler

post 35 XTowncuber
post 41 Porkynator
post 49 scottishcuber
post 54 scottishcuber
post 61 joey
post 94 ottozing
post 95 Robert-Y
post 103 uvafan
post 105 cubingawsumness
post 116 scottishcuber
post 126 ElectricDoodie

these not directed at al3x:
[post 137 ottozing
post 139 tseitsei
post 148 ElectricDoodie]

EDIT: Btw there's nothing wrong with tearing this guy apart. I'm just trigger-happy at the opportunity of being correctly contentious with Kirjava.

 

[elrog]

IMO saying "internet warrior" is much more mature than vulgar language others may have used in its place. I think we should approach al3x like this - "innocent until proven guilty". I agree with MM99 that the community should not just straight up say his times are fake. Asking for a video is fine.

It really is sad how this community constantly is overrunning threads with their arguments... And now I have made myself part of it in hopes that the community can realize they are doing this and stop it.

 

[tseitsei]

You obviously can't read then bro.

A condensed map of the criticisms:

Spoiler

post 35 XTowncuber
post 41 Porkynator
post 49 scottishcuber
post 54 scottishcuber
post 61 joey
post 94 ottozing
post 95 Robert-Y
post 103 uvafan
post 105 cubingawsumness
post 116 scottishcuber
post 126 ElectricDoodie

these not directed at al3x:
[post 137 ottozing
post 139 tseitsei
post 148 ElectricDoodie]

EDIT: Btw there's nothing wrong with tearing this guy apart. I'm just trigger-happy at the opportunity of being correctly contentious with Kirjava.

Okay I read through those posts you listed (last ones number is wrong by the way. It was 129 iirc).
The most insulting thing I could find was scottishcuber saying "Now you sound like a brat" and that doesn't qualify as "tearing this guy apart" in my eyes... Most of the posts were just people saying that they don't believe the times and often even told some reasons for why they were doubtful (for example post 35 by XTowncuber)

 

[mDiPalma]

Okay I read through those posts you listed (last ones number is wrong by the way. It was 129 iirc).
The most insulting thing I could find was scottishcuber saying "Now you sound like a brat" and that doesn't qualify as "tearing this guy apart" in my eyes... Most of the posts were just people saying that they don't believe the times and often even told some reasons for why they were doubtful (for example post 35 by XTowncuber)

They still violate forum rule 1a.

oh btw ur right about #129

 

[al3x]

This is nuts. The few who contacted me via pm, I'll stillread any reply to PMS, but I'm done with this thread. Shows a bad side of community.

 

[tseitsei]

They still violate forum rule 1a.

oh btw ur right about #129

More than half of the posts on this forum violate that rule if one wants to interpret it strictly enough

 

[Kirjava]

You obviously can't read then bro.

"criticism" is not synonymous with "ripping apart"

 

[ElectricDoodie]

Shows a bad side of community.

That we don't believe liars?

I agree with MM99 that the community should not just straight up say his times are fake. Asking for a video is fine.

Most people just wanted to see a video of some awesome ZZ solves, which are really fun and crazy to watch.
Once he started making up excuses, is when people were able to deduce that he was lying and accusing him.

He should've either not mentioned crazy times, or just posted a video for people to see awesome solves.
He dug his own grave.

 

[TDM]

That we don't believe liars?

Find any proof he is lying.

 

[ElectricDoodie]

Find any proof he is lying.

Find any proof that he isn't.

 

[tseitsei]

Find any proof he is lying.

I say pink flying unicorns exist.

Now go find some evidence they don't.

See, it doesn't work that way. The one who makes the claim needs to provide the evidence in order for people to believe it.


He says something amazing and hard to believe: "I have world class times, yet I have only been to one competition where I was slow"
That's why he needs some evidence for most people to believe him.

Most of the time it's also much easier to prove there IS something than that there ISN'T something... As in this case as well. It's (almost) impossible for us to show concrete evidence that he is lying, as it is impossible for you to show me evidence that pink flying unicorns don't exist. But it should be VERY easy for him to show evidence about his times if he is able to solve that fast...