ZZ brag (unrelated tips appreciated!)

[Lazy Einstein]

Well I'd just like to see ZB used in every solve, and confirmation as to whether this guy can do it or not would be nice.
But otherwise, I'm not personally bothered either way

Same here. I am hoping it is true. I really want to see ZB solves as I am very interested in ZB but not prepared to change and learn over 9000 algs yet. If I saw it used well, it would be a strong push it learn.

If he is lying, well I am a strong believer that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If he is going to make all these claims and not prove it then I am def calling him out. As you should with anything you are skeptical about.

 

[DuffyEdge]

Same here. I am hoping it is true. I really want to see ZB solves as I am very interested in ZB but not prepared to change and learn over 9000 algs yet. If I saw it used well, it would be a strong push it learn.

If he is lying, well I am a strong believer that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If he is going to make all these claims and not prove it then I am def calling him out. As you should with anything you are skeptical about.

I agree with you for the most part. Since it is still unclear whether or not learning full ZBLL is actually worth it, it would be very useful to the community to acknowledge that there is someone out there who uses ZB, and averages 7-8 seconds. A strong indication that ZBLL is worth it.

But if he's lying, I don't really see the benefit of calling him out. It would make him feel bad which I don't want. I just want confirmation as to whether he can do it or not, and then I'll be on with my merry little way

 

[uvafan]

The EO is easy but the line makes the EOLine take 45 seconds? I'm going to have to call B.S. on that one.

 

[al3x]

I'm done I don't need to prove this. Its not like I was given reasonable time to put up a video, and in the meantime I got barely any ZZ help. This is why I don't compete. I'm done. Bye. Thanks for those who helped. My ZZ is around 20s, and constantly improving.

 

[cubingawsumness]

The EO is easy but the line makes the EOLine take 45 seconds? I'm going to have to call B.S. on that one.

This. The line is literally placing 2 edge pieces...

EDIT:

My ZZ is around 20s, and constantly improving.

In learning ZZ, my times have gone up to 45 - 60s.

?

 

[Lazy Einstein]

Its not like I was given reasonable time to put up a video.

4 days is ample time. Whip out phone, film 5 solves, upload. Done

and in the meantime I got barely any ZZ help.

Definitely were told about this thread. Also if you type "ZZ method" into youtube you great many great videos on the method from example solves to tutorial which would be helpful.

Not to mention Phil Yu, the best ZZ solver imo, said he would personally help you if you proved your claims. Anyone would take up that offer unless they knew their claims were false.

This is why I don't compete. I'm done. Bye. Thanks for those who helped. My ZZ is around 20s, and constantly improving.

You don't compete because people don't give you advice? or because you make claims that you can't back up and it makes you mad when people ask to see you do ZB solves and you can't?

I'm done I can't prove this. Its not like I was given reasonable time to put up a video, and in the meantime I got barely any ZZ help. This is why I don't compete. I'm done. Bye. Thanks for those who helped. My ZZ is around 20s, and constantly improving.

Glad to see you are constantly improving with ZZ. Hope the method is as good for you as you are hoping it will be.

 

[al3x]

I'm not doing eo+line, I'm trying to learn how to get optimal solutions every time. Eoline optimized I'm finding is much harder than doing eo+line, but eoline will go further. I don't see why people care so much. To push and push for a video without any actual advice is just rude. Maybe I'll post one someday in the near future, but no way in hell I'm posting that here. This community has been for the most part rude and unwelcoming.

 

[brian724080]

I'm not doing eo+line, I'm trying to learn how to get optimal solutions every time. Eoline optimized I'm finding is much harder than doing eo+line, but eoline will go further. I don't see why people care so much. To push and push for a video without any actual advice is just rude. Maybe I'll post one someday in the near future, but no way in hell I'm posting that here. This community has been for the most part rude and unwelcoming.

You don't have to optimize it, but you should try to make it so that the line pieces are on opposite sides of the cube when you're done with EO. If the EO case is simple, then you can try to place the line pieces when doing EO.

 

[Lazy Einstein]

I'm not doing eo+line, I'm trying to learn how to get optimal solutions every time. Eoline optimized I'm finding is much harder than doing eo+line, but eoline will go further. I don't see why people care so much. To push and push for a video without any actual advice is just rude. Maybe I'll post one someday in the near future, but no way in hell I'm posting that here. This community has been for the most part rude and unwelcoming.

Almost everybody on here has been pretty nice to you. Saying they are skeptical is not being rude. Being upset over this thread would only happen if you were indeed lying. Is lying not rude? I mean you can redeem yourself at any point in time with video proof and, myself anyway, would happily apologize to you being so skeptical.

 

[al3x]

Nobody has been personally rude. The way skepticism dominates progress is rude in my eyes, and is a creation of the community as a whole

 

[Robert-Y]

Alex, I did not intend to be rude, but I was pointing out something that seemed rather odd to me. I have some (legitimate) reasons to doubt your times, and I have pointed one of them out.

About what you said earlier about EOline: What do you by optimal? Optimal for speed or move count? Isn't speed your goal? Surely move count doesn't matter so much? When you learnt to do the cross, do you solve it move optimally every time? If yes, how can you know all the time? Whatever knowledge you've gained and the approaches you've taken to average under 10 seconds can surely be enough to help you average at least sub 15 in absolutely no time with ZZ? It's really difficult for me to believe that EOline could damage someone's solves that much. Can you understand? It's not a personal thing. If anyone told me that they average under 10 seconds with CFOP, tried ZZ and started averaging above 40 seconds, that would sound too far-fetched for me. Please understand why I feel a bit skeptical about your times.

I really wouldn't worry about move efficiency so much. I admit that I'm not *that* fast but surely if you just follow this guide on EOline: http://cube.crider.co.uk/. You'll be averaging sub 15 and maybe even sub 10 quite comfortably. (I average around 12-13 seconds with ZZ)

Is it too late for the video for those who'd like to watch one? I still think it's kinda cool to watch someone new to me, do some decent 3x3x3 solves. It's still nice to watch others like Feliks, Mats, Alex Lau etc. but someone new, will always grab my attention. Even if you only averaged like 15 seconds, I would still watch it, because full ZB solves is cool to me

 

[al3x]

Rob my main problem with cfop is that my execution speeds were near maximum, and yet the solve involved no thinking. I'm trying to minimize move count as much as possible , and work on speed later. If you want a video, message me-i don't mind. That **** doesn't belong here though

 

[Robert-Y]

Ah ok, most of my times with ZZ are usually bad because my EOline is bad. I also try to colour neutral. I think your approach at getting faster at EOline does make sense to me. Unfortunately, I'm not great at this step. Now I wonder though... How do you choose your orientation? I usually scan fast, and pick an orientation with many correctly flipped edges on D (+ sometimes E). Then I work out which edges need flipping and a short enough solution for EO. I worry about the line later because by then, I usually run out of inspection time

 

[mDiPalma]

Ah ok, most of my times with ZZ are usually bad because my EOline is bad. I also try to colour neutral. I think your approach at getting faster at EOline does make sense to me. Unfortunately, I'm not great at this step. Now I wonder though... How do you choose your orientation? I usually scan fast, and pick an orientation with many correctly flipped edges on D (+ sometimes E). Then I work out which edges need flipping and a short enough solution for EO. I worry about the line later because by then, I usually run out of inspection time

If I'm not mistaken, there are only 3 orientations you have to check to determine which orientation "group" is best. If you count the bad edges in the scrambling orientation, in a y-rotation from the scrambling orientation, and in an x-rotation for the scrambling orientation, you should be able to see which of these groups has the fewest bad edges. You should be able to scan for the number of bad edges in each of these orientations in around 2 seconds each.

Then you can determine what z-rotation of that "orientation group" is best. This is usually determined by whichever z-rotation has the most favorably placed line edges (preferably on L/R). You should be able to scan through for line pieces in around 1.5 seconds for each rotation.

That leaves you 3 seconds to plan out your eoline. Which, many ZZers will tell you, is MORE than enough lol. Just ask uva- "Don't bother starting that inspection stopwatch" -fan.

Then, you decide which y2-orientation is best. This is best planned after you have come up with an efficient eoline. Just pick the y2-orientation for which the eoline solution you develop is the most ergonomic.

However, I'll be honest. Color neutrality in ZZ is perhaps the third least worthwhile endeavor on this entire planet, right after "sucking your thumb" and "arguing with Pochmann".

 

[ottozing]

I'm done I don't need to prove this. Its not like I was given reasonable time to put up a video, and in the meantime I got barely any ZZ help. This is why I don't compete. I'm done. Bye. Thanks for those who helped. My ZZ is around 20s, and constantly improving.

Look, if you want ZZ help, that's totally fine. There's a thread on Speedsolving dedicated to discussing ZZ/ZB and I'm sure there would be people there willing to help you. However, since you also felt like casually mentioning you're super fast at 4 different events with absolutely no proof, of course people were bound to be both very sceptical and curious of your claims and therefore ask for video proof.

 

[scottishcuber]

I'm done I don't need to prove this. Its not like I was given reasonable time to put up a video, and in the meantime I got barely any ZZ help. This is why I don't compete. I'm done. Bye. Thanks for those who helped. My ZZ is around 20s, and constantly improving.

This community has been for the most part rude and unwelcoming.

Now you sound like a brat. In this thread people have been incredibly helpful and have given lots of resources to help you with ZZ, so don't be so ungrateful. In fact, I'm surprised people have been so understanding seeing as it's pretty obvious you haven't been honest about your times.

People in this thread have been quite open and forgiving (except me maybe), so don't insult them.

Its not like I was given reasonable time to put up a video

No one gave you a deadline, you can show a video whenever you want...you're just making excuses now.

 

[ryanj92]

Please understand al3x this is nothing to do with you personally. This forum has had more than its fair share of people lying about their times at all levels, with similar excuses, so i think people were right to be on the defensive. We are a community who has to rely on the fidelity of our members, and sometimes that trust is hard to earn. I hope you understand.
In terms of EO line, what is your approach to finding an optimal one? Ive not really heard of many people using a purely move-optimal approach to EO line...

Also, this forum largely exists for people to pick holes in arguments, apparently!

 

[brian724080]

Also, this forum largely exists for people to pick holes in arguments, apparently!

This is so true

 

[DeeDubb]

Also, this forum largely exists for people to pick holes in arguments, apparently!

This is quite a bold statement to make without doing any numerical research on the amount of active members vs. the amount who "pick holes in arguments" as you describe. Also you are claiming the existence of the board revolves around this when the URL, forum sections, and forum rules seem to imply that the existence of this board is for speed cubers to have a community where they can share information on cubing and work as a community for individual improvement. Now whether or not this actually happens is open for debate, however the "largely exists" argument is clearly flawed and has many holes that I've just picked.

 

[DuffyEdge]

This is quite a bold statement to make without doing any numerical research on the amount of active members vs. the amount who "pick holes in arguments" as you describe. Also you are claiming the existence of the board revolves around this when the URL, forum sections, and forum rules seem to imply that the existence of this board is for speed cubers to have a community where they can share information on cubing and work as a community for individual improvement. Now whether or not this actually happens is open for debate, however the "largely exists" argument is clearly flawed and has many holes that I've just picked.

I agree. To make such a claim is absurd when he backs it up with no evidence whatsoever and not a single quotation (which somebody made years ago) in sight.