ZZ brag (unrelated tips appreciated!)

[porkynator]

[...]I was solving ~9seconds with full CFOP, and my times shot up to the high 30s by the end of 8 months. I was close to giving up, however when reading week came, I began practicing like crazy (mostly because I didn't have much else to do xD). After that week alone, my times had dropped to 17s (I thought that was pretty awesome. Recog of last layer alone took a lot of time, and my ll was ~8 seconds, 5 for recog, 3 for execution (average)).[...]

So with 8 months of stop you suddenly became 3 times slower? I stopped for 6~7 months when I was around 12s (well I still am that fast lol) and when I started practicing again I was barely 1 second slower.
This and the results you claim make it impossible for me to believe you.
Your 3BLD times are also really good. Do you use ZBLL also for that?
It would be nice for me to be proven wrong.
Good luck with ZZ anyway.

 

[ottozing]

Any of these would be great. I'd ideally like to see ALL of your algorithms, but I'm more interested in cases for now

For the 3rd one I found (U') r U R' U' r' F R2 U' R' U' R U2 R' U' F' by hand a while back. Mirroring it/inversing it deals with the other 3 cases you want for that COLL subset but I don't like them

EDIT: Also yeah like people said video pls. I don't really care though because I'm sure he's just full of it and I doubt I'll be proven wrong.

 

[a small kitten]

I also find it weird that your ZZ times are between 45 and 60 seconds. I started ZZ back in 2009 and I had to do a lot of thinking and discovering on my own, since there were not many English tutorials out. I made the switch when I averaged low 20s in CFOP. My first ZZ solves were all sub 30. Unless you're trying extremely hard to optimize EO line and F2L move count while solving, I can't think of any plausible reason for a 6.xx-9.xx solver to suddenly drop that drastically in performance.

Anyway, I think we would all appreciate it if you posted a video of a casual average 5 or 12 with your intuitive ZBF2L and ZBLL. If you can actually do what you say you can do, I will personally coach you in ZZ until you get sick of me.

 

[Lazy Einstein]

I also find it weird that your ZZ times are between 45 and 60 seconds. I started ZZ back in 2009 and I had to do a lot of thinking and discovering on my own, since there were not many English tutorials out. I made the switch when I averaged low 20s in CFOP. My first ZZ solves were all sub 30. Unless you're trying extremely hard to optimize EO line and F2L move count while solving, I can't think of any plausible reason for a 6.xx-9.xx solver to suddenly drop that drastically in performance.

Anyway, I think we would all appreciate it if you posted a video of a casual average 5 or 12 with your intuitive ZBF2L and ZBLL. If you can actually do what you say you can do, I will personally coach you in ZZ until you get sick of me.

I will personally learn every ZBLS and ZBLL alg if you'll personally train me in ZZ afterwards. =P

 

[FJT97]

I also find it weird that your ZZ times are between 45 and 60 seconds. I started ZZ back in 2009 and I had to do a lot of thinking and discovering on my own, since there were not many English tutorials out. I made the switch when I averaged low 20s in CFOP. My first ZZ solves were all sub 30. Unless you're trying extremely hard to optimize EO line and F2L move count while solving, I can't think of any plausible reason for a 6.xx-9.xx solver to suddenly drop that drastically in performance.

Anyway, I think we would all appreciate it if you posted a video of a casual average 5 or 12 with your intuitive ZBF2L and ZBLL. If you can actually do what you say you can do, I will personally coach you in ZZ until you get sick of me.

im at at low 20 now and i just switched to zz (thanks petro leum). If i speedsolve with zz im between 30 and 50 seconds. I think my times are that worse cause im kinda afraid to do my blockbuilding too much cfop-like. I often see myself doing just cfop after eoline.

btw: thanks Phil for your zz tutorial It helped me out

 

[Petro Leum]

I will personally learn every ZBLS and ZBLL alg if you'll personally train me in ZZ afterwards. =P

same for me. i doubt his offer was put for everyone to accept tho, LOL

 

[thatboyahcubah]

same for me. i doubt his offer was put for everyone to accept tho, LOL

we can dream cant we?

 

[al3x]

Porkynator,I did not mean I took a break. I learnedZBLL over two months, however as I learned more and more, my recognition got terrible. I would often do one alg and realize it was the wrong one many times in a row before getting the correct one. Dedicated practice helped improve this extremely fast.
Kitten, thanks for sending me a weilong when the first didn't arrive. Its my main cube (over zhanchi) now! In terms of ZZ, the biggest part of my time comes from recognising eo, fixing it, and then creating a line without wasting a ton of moves in the process. In trying to be efficient and optimal, I end up messing up a lot . I solve the f2l in 2-3 sec, and all in about the same. I'm just having loads of trouble with eoline. I'll get a video up asap! In the meantime, do you have any tips? I've watched a few of your videos on eoline, if that helps!

 

[scottishcuber]

Porkynator,I did not mean I took a break. I learnedZBLL over two months, however as I learned more and more, my recognition got terrible. I would often do one alg and realize it was the wrong one many times in a row before getting the correct one. Dedicated practice helped improve this extremely fast.
Kitten, thanks for sending me a weilong when the first didn't arrive. Its my main cube (over zhanchi) now! In terms of ZZ, the biggest part of my time comes from recognising eo, fixing it, and then creating a line without wasting a ton of moves in the process. In trying to be efficient and optimal, I end up messing up a lot . I solve the f2l in 2-3 sec, and all in about the same. I'm just having loads of trouble with eoline. I'll get a video up asap! In the meantime, do you have any tips? I've watched a few of your videos on eoline, if that helps!

No, no you don't.

 

[porkynator]

Porkynator,I did not mean I took a break. I learnedZBLL over two months, however as I learned more and more, my recognition got terrible. I would often do one alg and realize it was the wrong one many times in a row before getting the correct one. Dedicated practice helped improve this extremely fast.

This makes sense, but I'm still skeptical.

 

[TDM]

No, no you don't.

He doesn't film himself, so he can't watch how fast he actually solves it. That is a guess of what time it takes him, and although it's very inaccurate (unless his EOF2L is faster than his regular F2L, despite it being a new method to him), you can't blame him for the mistake. I have to guess my splits, and I know a lot of them are wrong by a couple of seconds. Maybe. I can't say, and nor can he. We need video evidence.
But if his F2L times are similar to with CFOP, he's saying it takes him 50 seconds to do the EOLine. That's... a long time. It took me a few solves to improve past that, and I averaged 30 or so when I first attempted switching to ZZ.

 

[al3x]

scottishcuber, the f2l is same thing as cfop. Because i am very slow with the eoline, when I am finally done, I can pretty much start f2l immediately. I don't do it via building blocks, but as I would with cfop. After the cross piece are in place, it doesn't take long to place pairs, especially since I don't even need to bother influencing last layer (which took me ~3 seconds give or take one with my cfzbll). I don't know if that makes sense, but the f2l and last layer is easy. f2l is 2/3/4 sec, and ll is 2/3 sec.
porkynator, I understand I'll upload something ASAP, I wouldn't mind someone (kitten) teaching me ZZ haha.

Edit; Just so you guys know... I've been working on ZZ yesterday and today... I'm ~30 sec ish now . Barely ever getting over 40 which is good.

 

[Robert-Y]

Any of these would be great. I'd ideally like to see ALL of your algorithms, but I'm more interested in cases for now

Any luck?

 

[scottishcuber]

He doesn't film himself, so he can't watch how fast he actually solves it. That is a guess of what time it takes him, and although it's very inaccurate (unless his EOF2L is faster than his regular F2L, despite it being a new method to him), you can't blame him for the mistake. I have to guess my splits, and I know a lot of them are wrong by a couple of seconds. Maybe. I can't say, and nor can he. We need video evidence.
But if his F2L times are similar to with CFOP, he's saying it takes him 50 seconds to do the EOLine. That's... a long time. It took me a few solves to improve past that, and I averaged 30 or so when I first attempted switching to ZZ.

If he is as fast as he claims (with ZB) then that comes with an awareness of how fast his turn speed is (in qualitative terms at least), his efficiency and to an extent his splits. For a slower cuber I wouldnt 'blame him for the mistake' but he claims to have a very fast average, so I can't be as forgiving as you think I should.

EO-line isn't that hard, it is tricky to keep track of the bad edges at the start of a solve, and inspection can be a pain...but he should be quite well versed in the orientation of edges.

edited, ty TDM

 

[al3x]

Any luck?

Sorry! I completely forgot about that. For the first one posted I do
Y L U' R' U L' U' R F U2 F2 U' F2 U' F2 U2 F
I like this one because the first half is 3 gen, and if you rotate after the U' R, it becomes RU 2gen. Very fast and finger friendly.
The next one, I use R' U' R F' U L' U2 R' U2 R U2 L U' F. If you use your thumbs for the Fs, it is very fast! I'll post some more in a bit!I'm a not busy at the moment

If he is as fast as he claims (with CFOP) then that comes with an awareness of how fast his turn speed is (in qualitative terms at least), his efficiency and to an extent his splits. For a slower cuber I wouldnt 'blame him for the mistake' but he claims to have a very fast average, so I can't be as forgiving as you think I should.

EO-line isn't that hard, it is tricky to keep track of the bad edges at the start of a solve, and inspection can be a pain...but he should be quite well versed in the orientation of edges.

My f2l time is nearly the same as my cfopp f2l, because my moves are more restricted but I don't have to bother influencing last layer.
I do not want to be bragging about my solving time or my alg set, I just want help improving
Edit; I learned EOLL (zbf2l) intuitively, without grasping much concept of EO

 

[Robert-Y]

Oh right, most of the ones you use are from the wiki, I'm guessing...

Can you show off any decent ZBLL algorithms that you found? I'm curious about how decent you are at generating decent algorithms

 

[TDM]

If he is as fast as he claims (with ZB) then that comes with an awareness of how fast his turn speed is (in qualitative terms at least), his efficiency and to an extent his splits. For a slower cuber I wouldnt 'blame him for the mistake' but he claims to have a very fast average, so I can't be as forgiving as you think I should.

Not sure I'd agree with this if he's never seen himself solve.

EO-line isn't that hard, it is tricky to keep track of the bad edges at the start of a solve, and inspection can be a pain...but he should be quite well versed in the orientation of edges.

Yep, EOLines shouldn't take as long as they do for him after a few solves. Especially if he does know about EO (he figured out ZBLS by himself).

 

[al3x]

Yeah I got a bunch from the Paris edu site too, but most are from wiki. I'll check the wiki's zbll u cases , and compare em to my own so I can figure out which are ones I generated

 

[joey]

My f2l time is nearly the same as my cfopp f2l, because my moves are more restricted but I don't have to bother influencing last layer.
I do not want to be bragging about my solving time or my alg set, I just want help improving
Edit; I learned EOLL (zbf2l) intuitively, without grasping much concept of EO

If you take 30s to do ZZ.. and your F2L is like 2-3s with CFOP. Where is the other 28s?

 

[al3x]

If you take 30s to do ZZ.. and your F2L is like 2-3s with CFOP. Where is the other 28s?

I spend about 2-4* seconds on f2l, 1-3 LL, and the rest is in figuring out eoline