The "Why I hate this event..." and "Why this event should be added" thread

[TMOY]

[The corner-tutning octahedron is] actually pretty much the megaminx version of pyraminx actually, I would be sad if pyraminx was removed, its not a bad event.

It is in fact only a 3^3 mod with no corners and orientable centers (plus the tips). Not really the best replacement for pyraminx IMHO.

 

[Tim Major]

Even stupider if you get on TV in my opinion. It gives off a picture of speedcubing as a joke. Granted, it's not the most serious sport but feet solving just makes it look ridiculous.
It's bad for the image. Speedcubing is already viewed as geeky enough. It's like, there's reciting pi and then there's reciting pi with your armpit.


Also: If you are organising a competition and want to have feet, at least don't put it late in the day (especially in summer...).

It gives a horrible impression to almost any noncuber. I've had a few friends who fully respect cubing, even a few of them can solve a cube, but whenever they hear about feetsolving they either think it's a joke, or it's the stupidest thing they have heard.

Anyway, apart from just feet which I hate, I dislike 6x6 and 7x7 for a few reasons, including;
-time constraints. They take so long. And if you say "don't host them" when hosted they are mean of 3 due to the time it takes to solve them, and I don't think mean of 3 is a good format for any event, when possible the format should ignore the best and worst result.
-it offers little over 5x5, and the fastest 6x6 and 7x7 solvers are generally the fastest 5x5 solvers.
-hardware, there is only one viable choice, this isn't the WCA's fault obviously.

The only thing I like about 6x6 and 7x7 is that there are people who average 12+ at 3x3 who are fast at 6x6/7x7, but 3x3 has a bigger effect on 5x5 meaning only fast 3x3 solvers can be world class at those events.

And then I hate Pyraminx due to tips. I wish when it was originally added to the WCA is was just a tetrahedron, without the tips. As well as making it a better event in my opinion, it would also allow advancements in hardware.

Don't get me wrong, I like Pyraminx obviously, but I would like it far more and actually have it as my favourite event if it didn't have tips.

Edit: As for corner turn octahedron, this is only similar to a Pyraminx if you use an L4E like method on Pyraminx. The top 50 solvers currently at Pyraminx don't really use a method that compares anything like the corner turn octahedron. I have 2, and average 20-40 iirc (I think the puzzle would be probably 15~ if official or faster). It's basically a Pyra->Megaminx like how 3x3->Megaminx, but isn't solved in any way similar to Pyra.

 

[IRNjuggle28]

stuff

Agreed about feet and pyra tips. Both are stupid.

I dislike 6x6 and 7x7 for a few reasons, including time constraints. They take so long. And if you say "don't host them" when hosted they are mean of 3 due to the time it takes to solve them, and I don't think mean of 3 is a good format for any event, when possible the format should ignore the best and worst result.

They can be done in reasonable amounts of time if there are cutoffs. I don't think MO3 is really a problem for big cubes. The purpose of AO5 is essentially to allow for one solve with a pop. It's for equipment failure, and that's the only point to it. Big cubes (or at least Shengshous) don't explode very often. At worst, lockups that take a few seconds to fix, or small pops, happen. Compared to the amount of time it takes to solve a big cube, they're pretty insignificant. With pops, the difference between 10s and 30s on a 3x3 is a lot bigger than 5:00 and 5:20 or something like that.

it offers little over 5x5, and the fastest 6x6 and 7x7 solvers are generally the fastest 5x5 solvers.

The centers are different. But whether of not there's a big enough difference to merit an extra event is total opinion. No point in arguing about it. I don't see why it's a problem that the fastest with 5 are also the fastest with 6 and 7. The skills overlap. Obviously. Why is that something you dislike? Do you want different people to be the best at events? I think that if someone is skilled enough to be world class at 5x5, there's no reason it should be considered a bad thing that they're going to be good at 6 and 7 too.

hardware, there is only one viable choice, this isn't the WCA's fault obviously.

This will change. Moyu is coming out with stuff.

 

[SolveThatCube]

feet: feet sucks
skewb: its just another 2x2
6x6+7x7: they are the same as 5x5 but they waste more time
5bld: its the same as 4bld but it wastes more time

feet: say why it sucks rather than it just sucks
skewb: maybe
6and7: maybe
5bld: no

going on the same logic:

fmc: its the same as 3x3 but it wastes more time

I agree with both of yas, but I do feet because I can't do BLD and cause why not?

 

[IRNjuggle28]

We already have enough events under 10 seconds, so perhaps a 24 puzzle would be a better idea.

Whaaaa... Someone who is literally in charge of the competitive cubing world and knows how pushed for time comps are thinks we should find events that are longer than they need to be?
24 puzzle is a great idea, but so is 15 puzzle, and I definitely don't think that it being a sub 10 event is a reason to not have it. I'm a bit surprised to hear anyone say that.

Right now, all the physical 15 puzzles are terrible.

One idea that might be worth exploring is "official" virtual comps. Yes, judging would indeed be difficult, but I'm sure you could find a way to set it up so that when you sign up for the competition, the sim will give everyone the same scrambles, and measured can be taken to prevent scrambles being stolen and inspected before competing. I'm sure ways around this are easy, but most people aren't cheaters and anyone who is world class at it will be watched by enough people that if they're cheating, it'll likely be noticed eventually. Time wouldn't be even close to as much of an issue with this as it is at regular competitions, so multiple sizes of sliding puzzles could be offered, and maybe virtual cubes also. It sounds easier to organize than a regular competition in terms of time, judging, travel, and other things like that, but much more difficult in terms of technology. I don't know. Might be worth considering.

I wouldn't be interested in adding it, so I doubt many other people would be.

Um... why not? I'm really surprised you wouldn't want that.

 

[Bindedsa]

One idea that might be worth exploring is "official" virtual comps. Yes, judging would indeed be difficult, but I'm sure you could find a way to set it up so that when you sign up for the competition, the sim will give everyone the same scrambles, and measured can be taken to prevent scrambles being stolen and inspected before competing. I'm sure ways around this are easy, but most people aren't cheaters and anyone who is world class at it will be watched by enough people that if they're cheating, it'll likely be noticed eventually. Time wouldn't be even close to as much of an issue with this as it is at regular competitions, so multiple sizes of sliding puzzles could be offered, and maybe virtual cubes also. It sounds easier to organize than a regular competition in terms of time, judging, travel, and other things like that, but much more difficult in terms of technology. I don't know. Might be worth considering.

The logic that most people are not cheaters is no reason to make cheating easier. The moment electronics are the main focus of a competition things get complicated. It's unrealistic, physical puzzles are so much easier to judge and I'm sure if any company took into account speedsolving, it would be easy to make a better puzzle. Would it not be simpler than a cube? the mechanism is pretty simple.

 

[SolveThatCube]

WE REALLY DON'T NEED ANY VIRTUAL PUZZLES TO BE AN EVENT. IT'S STUPID AND THAT'S LOGIC. FULL STOP

 

[Tim Major]

I don't think MO3 is really a problem for big cubes. The purpose of AO5 is essentially to allow for one solve with a pop. It's for equipment failure, and that's the only point to it. Big cubes (or at least Shengshous) don't explode very often.

Big cubes are probably the most common cubes to pop now days. Back in 2010 I remember constant pops of all puzzles, but now it's only really big cubes.

Kevin got denied multiple WRs and even first at WC 2011 due to a pop. The ideal structure for every event in my opinion in ao10000000000000000
But since that's not viable, you gotta make it work, so ao5 is viable. mo3 is far from ideal, but done to save time. That's why I dislike mo3 events.

I think Jay won this 7x7 comp due to mo3 too https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=CanberraSummer2014&allResults=1#777

It works both ways, screws over good solvers, but also makes their averages inconsistent with what they actually average due to lucky/good solves.

 

[Ninja Storm]

everyone who is good at 6x6/7x7 is good at 7x7/6x6.

*ahem hem*

 

[IRNjuggle28]

The logic that most people are not cheaters is no reason to make cheating easier. The moment electronics are the main focus of a competition things get complicated. It's unrealistic, physical puzzles are so much easier to judge and I'm sure if any company took into account speedsolving, it would be easy to make a better puzzle. Would it not be simpler than a cube? the mechanism is pretty simple.

Sure, the mechanism would be simpler than a cube, but there's no way a physical puzzle would be faster than using a keyboard on a sim, no matter how good the mechanism was.

So it could be a "semi-official" sort of thing. Something where cheating doesn't gain you anything. I don't think fear of people cheating is a reason to not do that. Is the goal to enjoy solving, or to prevent cheating? Physical puzzles are easier to judge, but I bet everyone would hate solving them. You would have to spend time scrambling it that you don't have to spend on a sim, and you'll be slower at solving. I'd rather have an event with the possibility of cheaters than a crappy version of a puzzle that nobody will like as well as a sim.

 

[Deleted member 19792]

No virtual competitions. Whatsoever. Sims or not, NO. It is stupid and takes the fun out of physically solving a puzzle. You really think we will just enter times into the WCA database, if someone ends up getting a like, what. 3.31? I don't think so.

 

[Sajwo]

Please, do not add 15 puzzle. It's even more stupid than feet solving

 

[Deleted member 19792]

No feet solving is even more stupid that 15 puzzle.

 

[Bindedsa]

Sure, the mechanism would be simpler than a cube, but there's no way a physical puzzle would be faster than using a keyboard on a sim, no matter how good the mechanism was.

So it could be a "semi-official" sort of thing. Something where cheating doesn't gain you anything. I don't think fear of people cheating is a reason to not do that. Is the goal to enjoy solving, or to prevent cheating? Physical puzzles are easier to judge, but I bet everyone would hate solving them. You would have to spend time scrambling it that you don't have to spend on a sim, and you'll be slower at solving. I'd rather have an event with the possibility of cheaters than a crappy version of a puzzle that nobody will like as well as a sim.

What does cheating at an official event get you now? Nothing more than it would in an semi-official event. The difference between UWR and WR is the legitimacy and the trust in the WCA system. Official virtual events simply will not work and your idea sounds no different from just using Ben's simulator now? I am not really interested in 15 puzzle becoming official though I use the sim quite regularly, but if it any way became official it would have to be a physical puzzle.

No feet solving is even more stupid that 15 puzzle.

That implies that 15 Puzzle is stupid. Feet solving being an official event is as ridiculous to me as hand stands races being in the Olympics would be.

 

[ComputerGuy365]

They should add 2x2 OH.

 

[IRNjuggle28]

No virtual competitions. Whatsoever. Sims or not, NO. It is stupid and takes the fun out of physically solving a puzzle.

The fun of solving 15 puzzle has nothing to do with "physically" solving it. Nobody does that.

Straterek & Blindedsa:
OK, I see where you guys are coming from. I think the conclusion to come to is that 15 puzzle shouldn't be official. Just doesn't seem like it can be worked out well.

This is unrelated to competitions, but if Moyu or somebody made a 15 puzzle that was decent, do either of you think you'd prefer it to a sim?

 

[Bindedsa]

This is unrelated to competitions, but if Moyu or somebody made a 15 puzzle that was decent, do either of you think you'd prefer it to a sim?

I would say yes, I dislike computer cubes when compared with physical ones, so I don't see why it would be different for a sliding puzzle.

 

[Deleted member 19792]

That implies that 15 Puzzle is stupid. Feet solving being an official event is as ridiculous to me as hand stands races being in the Olympics would be.

Considering that to some people, it is.

 

[Ranzha]

Is anyone besides Lucas and me actually down to see Team BLD implemented?

 

[Ollie]

Has anyone actually justified their reasons for saying feet is stupid? Other than "feet is just stupid?" I've seen the argument from a non-cuber's perspective but when has any WCA decision been made on what non-cubers think...

Also, don't a lot of the same arguments for feet apply for OH as well?

As for 15 puzzle, where would be draw the line between a 'twisty' puzzle and just a generic puzzle? A lot of the same logic for putting in 15 puzzle also applies to adding Sudoku as an official event, to give an extreme example.