Older cubers discussions

[MarcelP]

Yeah very doable - you're already very close to that for ao12, so you already have the pace and just need to extend your consistency. How was your transition?

I turn slow, even during cross. So there for I can spot my first pair while making the cross. I just uploaded an Ao12 (22 secs) and most of the cross + 1 are probably sub 5 I feel this targeted practice is very good for my progress.

Best
Ao5 = 3.23
Ao12 = 3.80
Ao50 = 4.05

Last few days just been practicing planning the whole cross+1 during inspection (at least up to figuring out where the first pair pieces are going to be, not necessarily the orientation). Sometimes it's not too hard but sometimes it takes much too long to be reasonable. But I'll keep at it and will probably get much better and faster at planning it.

Have you improved? For me Cross+1 during inspection is still to hard. Tracking one corner is some times ok though..

 

[sneaklyfox]

Have you improved? For me Cross+1 during inspection is still to hard. Tracking one corner is some times ok though..

Haven't noticed much improvement yet, but I just have to keep practicing. I used to not plan the first pair at all but just hoped to spot something during cross.

 

[kcl]

Hi, Marcel from Holland here

I'm going to be honest, it's not always worth it to find your first pair. If you can't find exactly what will happen, don't worry about it, it comes with time. I would consider myself pretty decent as far as cross+1 goes. If I can't find my entire first pair, I just figure out where a corner will be. Because I only have to "search" for one piece, the edge, I can just find it while bulidng my cross. Another thing that works along with what I mentioned is to track a corner and just see where an edge is during inspection, and physically track the corner. It gives you a visual idea of where to find the edge after the cross. . If you then only have to spot the orientation of the edge, the first pair will be very fast since you already know where the corner is. Hopefully this makes sense, I'm dead tired

 

[AmazingCuber]

I did this a bit and weirdly enough the longer/more complicated crosses gave better times. Maybe because I then could look-ahead?

 

[kcl]

I did this a bit and weirdly enough the longer/more complicated crosses gave better times. Maybe because I then could look-ahead?

If you know exactly what you're doing for your cross, just find the other pieces as you build it. If you aren't trying to manipulate stuff your cross should be short. That being said I wouldn't be surprised if mine regularly breaks 10+ moves because I build pairs in making it.

 

[Schmidt]

I don't have time to do this on Monday, so I did it a few days early this year:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...t-from-Denmark&p=830262&viewfull=1#post830262
Average of 12: 22.38
1. 20.71
2. (18.88)
3. 21.90
4. 24.44
5. 21.91
6. 20.03
7. 24.33
8. 22.53
9. (29.94)
10. 21.38
11. 24.30
12. 22.22

Still improving even without practice

 

[MarcelP]

Still improving even without practice

Nice.. Sub 20 still a goal?

 

[Schmidt]

Yeah and so is subfaz, but both of them seems far away.

 

[mark49152]

Back to cross+1 after a couple of days off. Ao50 = 6.96 with bao12 = 6.15. I'm not seeing the first pair during cross at all. Feels like major improvement will be hard to achieve.

 

[sneaklyfox]

I'm going to be honest, it's not always worth it to find your first pair. If you can't find exactly what will happen, don't worry about it, it comes with time. I would consider myself pretty decent as far as cross+1 goes. If I can't find my entire first pair, I just figure out where a corner will be. Because I only have to "search" for one piece, the edge, I can just find it while bulidng my cross. Another thing that works along with what I mentioned is to track a corner and just see where an edge is during inspection, and physically track the corner. It gives you a visual idea of where to find the edge after the cross. . If you then only have to spot the orientation of the edge, the first pair will be very fast since you already know where the corner is. Hopefully this makes sense, I'm dead tired

I know what you're saying. But since I almost never did anything during cross (not planning the first pair, not even tracking a corner) I figure it would be good to get into a habit of doing more than just cross. It's helping a bit during my normal solves so when cross isn't too hard I also start having a tendency of figuring out more than that. I'm going to keep practicing this way.

 

[MarcelP]

I'm not seeing the first pair during cross at all. Feels like major improvement will be hard to achieve.

No not at all.. You know I am lousy at cross and it took me a long time to get decent cross times. Still... from the beginning I try to track a corner during the cross. It is really not that hard and will speed up your cross+1 quite a bit. The only down side it that when you track a visible (in inspection) corner, it might be a hard case to solve after cross is done. So there might be better F2L pairs available but since you tracked that specific one, you might lose time making that first 'hard' pair even though faster ones are available.

..I'm going to keep practicing this way.

Yeah, you will get better for sure.. The real fast people plan cross + 1 in inspection time. Also X-cross training might be usefull. JSkyler.. has a great video on that.

 

[mark49152]

Still... from the beginning I try to track a corner during the cross. It is really not that hard and will speed up your cross+1 quite a bit.

I might stop timing for a few days and do blind practice only. That's what helped my F2L. Just solving isn't helping me change the way I solve.

I know what you mean about tracking a corner then finding it's a hard CE case, but somehow being able to track like that also helps find pairs quicker. Often during F2L I'll just spot there's an easier pair and switch.

 

[MarcelP]

I might stop timing for a few days and do blind practice only. That's what helped my F2L. Just solving isn't helping me change the way I solve.

I know what you mean about tracking a corner then finding it's a hard CE case, but somehow being able to track like that also helps find pairs quicker. Often during F2L I'll just spot there's an easier pair and switch.

Cross+1 practice must have improved me.. Broke PB's (Ao50 and Ao12).. I am on fire today...

EDIT: Cube: Gan III V2 57 mm

 

[mark49152]

Great progress Marcel!

 

[MarcelP]

Yeah baby.. yeah! PB Ao100!

Spoiler

Mean: 21.94
Average: 21.94
Best time: 15.54
Median: 22.16
Worst time: 28.37
Standard deviation: 2.64

Best average of 5: 19.91
9-13 - 18.04 22.23 (22.60) (15.73) 19.45

Best average of 12: 20.39
17-28 - 18.15 19.04 20.34 21.00 22.71 19.15 21.20 19.89 19.25 23.12 (24.26) (17.42)

1. 22.17 B2 R2 B2 L2 U' F2 D B2 F2 U F2 L' D2 F' U F2 D F2 L B' L2 U'
2. 24.92 L2 D2 L2 D R2 B2 D2 F2 U F2 R2 F U' F2 L' B' D R D' R2 D2
3. 20.36 D F2 D B2 U R2 D B2 U2 R2 D2 L' D U' B R' D' L' F U
4. 19.54 L2 B2 D B2 R2 D U2 L2 D' F2 D2 L' F L2 F D' R D' R2 U' L' U
5. 21.10 D B2 U' B2 D R2 B2 D B2 L2 D' B' U R' D' B2 F' U R' L B2 U
6. 25.40 F2 R2 U' R2 L2 U2 F2 D' F2 D' L2 B' L' U2 F' R' F2 L' F' U F' U'
7. 18.95 L2 B2 D' L2 U2 F2 D' R2 L2 D2 U' B' R' D2 U2 B' D' R' L2 B D' L
8. 22.26 D' B2 U2 L2 D' B2 U B2 D' F2 U L' U' F2 R L B' L U2 B2 D
9. 18.04 U2 F2 L2 U' R2 D' B2 D' F2 U R2 F B2 U' L' U R F' D' R' U
10. 22.23 D B2 U' F2 L2 D' L2 D U F2 U' R B2 F' L' D' B2 R B' R2 B U'
11. 22.60 D' R2 U' F2 D L2 B2 F2 D L2 U' L' U R F2 R B L F L' D2 U
12. 15.73 D' B2 D' L2 D U2 R2 F2 D' L2 F2 L' F2 D' F U2 L D' F U2 R2
13. 19.45 D2 R2 B2 D U R2 F2 D' B2 D L2 F D F D2 L2 D2 F' R F2 L
14. 25.37 D' R2 B2 F2 U' B2 L2 D2 R2 D R2 F R2 D2 F R' U B R' D' R2 U'
15. 24.79 L2 F2 U2 B2 U2 R2 F2 L2 U R2 U R L F' L B2 D U2 L U' R2 F'
16. 28.37 L2 U2 L2 D R2 D' F2 U B2 F2 R2 B' F D B2 L' D' R B' L F2
17. 18.15 U' L2 U2 R2 B2 R2 D' F2 R2 U' F2 L F L' B2 U2 R' F D L' F2 U
18. 19.04 R2 L2 F2 U2 L2 U' F2 D' R2 L2 F2 R B' F' R' B' D' B2 L2 F' R' D'
19. 20.34 U F2 U R2 F2 L2 U' B2 U' L2 D2 L' F L B' D2 R2 L2 D' B' L2 U2
20. 21.00 D F2 L2 D' L2 U' B2 F2 D' U' L' U F' R2 B2 U' B U2 R' D L
21. 22.71 L2 D R2 B2 U' L2 D F2 R2 F2 R' U' R L D F' R2 F' D' R U'
22. 19.15 U2 L2 D R2 D L2 D' F2 U L U2 B D' F D2 F2 U' F' L U2
23. 21.20 U2 L2 F2 D' R2 F2 U2 B2 F2 L D' L' B U B2 F' R U
24. 19.89 B2 R2 F2 U R2 D' U' L2 U' R2 U2 L' D' U' F U' L F2 U2 B2 U2
25. 19.25 B2 D F2 D' B2 U' R2 U' R2 F2 D2 L' B R F2 D' R U R2 F' L2
26. 23.12 F2 D B2 D L2 D2 R2 B2 U B2 U' B U R2 B F D2 R' F2 D2 F U'
27. 24.26 U F2 D' B2 L2 D2 B2 R2 D R2 D' F' D L' B' R' D2 F R2 B U2
28. 17.42 R2 B2 D' R2 L2 D L2 U R2 U F' D L2 F L2 U2 L' B D B U'
29. 18.85 L2 B2 U F2 U B2 U2 B2 U' R2 U2 B' L2 U' L' F D F2 R U2 R' U
30. 26.37 D' L2 U2 F2 R2 U B2 F2 L2 F2 U' B L D' R' U2 L' D2 U' L' U2 F2
31. 23.31 F2 D' F2 U' F2 L2 D' F2 L2 B2 D2 B L2 U' L2 F L2 B' L' D' R' U'
32. 24.70 D2 F2 D2 F2 L2 B2 F2 L2 D B2 U B U2 B2 L F2 U' F2 U' F2
33. 23.95 F2 L2 D R2 F2 U2 R2 B2 D L2 U' F D R2 B R' F L F U' B2
34. 22.07 D' B2 U2 R2 B2 R2 D' R2 D2 F2 U' R' B R F U' L B D2 B D U'
35. 19.92 D R2 D2 L2 B2 D2 L2 D' L2 F2 R2 F L2 B' D B F2 R F U' B
36. 23.56 B2 L2 U' L2 U F2 D B2 D2 B2 U2 B R' F2 U L2 F' R' D U R U2
37. 22.46 U' L2 U B2 U2 F2 R2 B2 D F' U2 L' F' D2 R D' R2 D' B' U'
38. 18.23 D L2 F2 D' B2 R2 U' B2 L2 U2 L2 B' D2 L2 B' U R' F2 D R B2 D'
39. 25.62 D B2 D' B2 F2 U2 L2 D' F2 U2 R2 F R' D U' F' U' R B R F2
40. 23.25 U B2 D2 R2 B2 F2 U' R2 L2 B2 U' L U L B2 F' U' B F2 D F2 U2
41. 21.43 U2 F2 D U2 F2 D R2 L2 B2 R2 U2 R' B R L F' D' R U' R2 B' U
42. 23.76 D' R2 F2 D' R2 U' L2 U2 R2 U' R' D L2 B L2 F' L' U B' D2 U2
43. 19.07 B2 L2 D2 U B2 D L2 U R2 L2 U' F L2 D F D F2 R L' D B U2
44. 21.37 L2 U' R2 U' L2 D' U2 F2 U2 B2 L' U F2 D' F' U' R D2 F' D'
45. 23.89 R2 L2 D' U' B2 D L2 U B2 D R B' U' B' F R2 D' B L2 D
46. 19.76 D B2 F2 L2 U' R2 D L2 D' R2 D F U' L D L' B' F2 R B2 U'
47. 22.07 D' R2 L2 D U2 B2 L2 B2 F2 D' L2 F L2 B' R L D' F D' U' F U
48. 20.28 D L2 D2 U F2 L2 F2 L2 D2 F2 L2 F D2 L2 F' R' L' F' R B'
49. 21.48 B2 U2 B2 L2 D2 R2 U2 B2 D' L2 U' R' B2 D B' D R' B2 L' D F U
50. 16.57 U' F2 L2 D' L2 D2 B2 L2 D L2 U2 F' R2 B U R L2 B2 D' R D
51. 24.65 U L2 F2 D B2 F2 D2 R2 D' F2 R2 F D' F2 R' B' U R' L B2 D U2
52. 24.06 L2 B2 L2 U' F2 R2 D' U L2 D U F L2 U R' U B' D' F' L' B2 L'
53. 24.18 B2 R2 D B2 R2 F2 U' F2 D U2 B' L2 D' R B' R' L B U2 R2
54. 21.09 U2 B2 R2 D F2 D B2 L2 D L2 U R F L B R B' F2 L B2 U'
55. 22.68 F2 U B2 U B2 U2 R2 B2 U L2 B' D' L U F' L' D2 F2 R B U
56. 26.01 B2 F2 L2 D F2 D2 F2 R2 L2 F2 U' B' D' F R' U B' D2 L' B' F' U
57. 23.89 B2 L2 U2 L2 F2 D2 U B2 F2 R' U' L B2 F R2 D2 R U' B' U'
58. 23.39 U' L2 F2 D2 L2 D R2 B2 U' L2 U L' U' B' L' D B L' B2 U' B' U'
59. 22.75 R2 D F2 L2 D' R2 U2 B2 D2 F2 R B R2 D2 U R' B' U2 F R2
60. 20.04 B2 D B2 D L2 D2 F2 D F2 U2 F2 R' D2 L' F' U B F D' U2 L'
61. 25.50 F2 U B2 U2 R2 D B2 D L2 U2 L B F L2 U R D2 B U2 R2
62. 26.18 R2 D' B2 F2 D' F2 L2 U' L2 U' L' F D2 U' R B2 L F2 L2 B' U'
63. 22.82 D B2 R2 D' R2 U' B2 D L2 U R' U B L B2 F' U' R' D' L2 D'
64. 22.31 B2 F2 R2 D' F2 U' B2 D R2 U2 L2 F R2 L D2 B' U R' D2 F2 R'
65. 26.51 R2 B2 F2 L2 D L2 D2 F2 D' L2 D' F' R' U L2 D2 U2 F' R F2 D2
66. 22.48 F2 L2 U' R2 D F2 D' R2 D U2 F R' D R' U' B D' B R' L' D2
67. 22.46 D R2 D' R2 B2 U2 R2 L2 F2 U' L2 F D B' R2 L' U' F2 R B' R2 D2
68. 22.07 R2 U' F2 D2 B2 R2 U B2 U' L2 U' F' D F2 U' R L U2 B U2 B'
69. 23.50 D2 F2 R2 D F2 R2 F2 U F2 L2 D F U R' B U2 L' U B' R2 D2 U
70. 22.04 U' L2 D F2 U' R2 L2 U' F2 R2 F2 R' B2 D U F R' B2 F L B' U2
71. 21.81 U F2 D R2 F2 D2 U' L2 D B2 U' L' U' L B' R2 U R' U F2 R
72. 21.93 U' F2 L2 D L2 B2 U B2 D B2 D' F U2 F U L D' B' D2 R' D' L
73. 19.06 B2 D B2 L2 U F2 R2 F2 D' L2 D2 L' B U F' L2 B U R' L B2 D'
74. 23.82 D' B2 U R2 U' F2 L2 D' B2 R2 U F L' B2 F' U2 R' L B' L2 B2 U2
75. 20.39 L2 B2 F2 U' R2 B2 U L2 U' F2 U L' D' F2 R U' F2 L2 F D2 U2
76. 16.40 R2 B2 U R2 D2 R2 L2 D' F2 R' B' U' R' D' R L' U L F U'
77. 21.76 B2 L2 B2 U L2 B2 U' R2 U' F2 U2 B' L2 F' L' D' F' R2 D' R2 L2 U
78. 22.82 R2 U2 R2 D' B2 D' U2 F2 L2 U2 F' D B U2 L' F R U2 F2 R' U2
79. 18.79 U' L2 U' L2 U' F2 U2 B2 F2 U2 L2 F' D2 R U' L2 D' R B2 R2 D'
80. 23.48 B2 U B2 F2 D' F2 R2 U2 B2 U2 B2 L' U F' D2 F D' B R' L2
81. 24.01 R2 D R2 F2 D U2 B2 L2 D2 L2 U2 F R' L U R' B R2 U' R D U
82. 21.10 D L2 B2 F2 U2 B2 U L2 U' L2 U' B' U2 F D' L' F2 R' B' D2 U2
83. 15.54 R2 F2 D' L2 D U R2 U' L2 B2 U' R U2 L' F' L F2 D' L2 B2 U'
84. 20.43 B2 R2 L2 U L2 D2 B2 U2 B2 U' F D F' R F U L2 F2 U2 L2
85. 18.89 U' L2 B2 L2 B2 U' R2 D' U' L2 U' B L F R2 B D' B' L' D2 B2 U2
86. 25.07 U' L2 U' R2 U2 B2 F2 U' F2 L2 D F L' B2 F2 U2 B2 R B L' B
87. 21.78 D2 R2 U' R2 F2 U L2 D B2 D' U' F L2 D B2 R' D2 U F D F'
88. 22.14 F2 D' F2 D R2 D R2 D R2 F2 U' L' D' B D2 F U R2 U2 L' F U'
89. 24.76 U2 L2 F2 D' B2 F2 R2 B2 D2 B2 D' R U L2 D2 R' B' R2 L2 D B' U'
90. 22.39 B2 D L2 D2 U' F2 L2 F2 L2 D' U F' R' L F' L' D' B U R' L' U
91. 18.31 D' F2 L2 U' L2 D L2 U B2 F2 U' R' D U2 F D R U B2 F' L'
92. 26.75 B2 U' R2 B2 D2 R2 F2 L2 D' R2 U' R U2 F' R' U' L' B L' B2 D' L'
93. 21.42 D L2 D F2 R2 U F2 L2 D2 F2 R2 B' R D2 F R2 U2 B' D F U'
94. 24.78 D F2 D R2 F2 U L2 U B2 F2 U' R D F' U2 R2 L2 F' D' R2 L D
95. 23.09 U' B2 U' B2 R2 U' B2 F2 U' L2 U2 F' D2 U R F2 D B R' L' D'
96. 16.95 F2 D F2 D B2 L2 D L2 F2 U' F2 L' U' F' D L B' F2 R' L2 D' F2
97. 25.54 D B2 U R2 D R2 B2 D B2 U L2 B' L' U2 R' B U2 R B' F2
98. 18.35 R2 U B2 L2 F2 L2 U' L2 U' B2 U' L' D L2 B' D2 F' D F2 R L2 U'
99. 21.85 B2 L2 B2 L2 D B2 U L2 D' U' F2 L' F U' R2 B F' L B F2 L U2
100. 23.57 R2 L2 U F2 U F2 R2 D2 L2 D2 L2 B L' D U' R D R B' R U2 R2

 

[mark49152]

Sub-22, very nice! What do you think you improved most?

 

[MarcelP]

Sub-22, very nice! What do you think you improved most?

Yeah, well Ao100 by a full second. I doubt it is all Cross+1 training. I think I am better at solving overall. Still slow solving btw. When I start rushing I get lousy times.

 

[mark49152]

Did 50 blind crosses before tonight's ao50 cross+1 thinking that might warm me up for a good time, but no, only 7.13.

 

[sneaklyfox]

Go sub-20 Ao12!

Yeah, I watches jskyler's vid on xcross before. Didn't really get the hang... I figured that since it doesn't come up so much unless you're CN that I'd rather just get better at cross+1.

 

[kcl]

2.00 cross+1 ao12 grrr

They were pretty easy scrambles tbh