[WCA Regulations 2014] Logos and Stickers

[mark49152]

Also, that would automatically make the new fangshi 2x2 illegal with no good way of making it legal since there is currently no good way of getting extra tiles

Looks to me like the logo is on a transparent sticker. I haven't peeled it off to check, but that tile definitely has a tile-shaped transparent sticker on it.

 

[TDM]

Looks to me like the logo is on a transparent sticker. I haven't peeled it off to check, but that tile definitely has a tile-shaped transparent sticker on it.

Looks like a sticker from this picture. You can see four white tiles in the pile, and the logo isn't on a tile.

 

[Lucas Garron]

After reviewing a whole bunch of discussion, we had a Board vote to settle this.

There will be some changes in what puzzles are allowed, but most cubes should remain okay.
In addition, there will be an official grace period: *you are still allowed to use your old puzzles until March 31*. But you will be reminded that you need to have fully compliant puzzles starting April 1. That should hopefully be enough time to fix your puzzle, or buy a new one (or perhaps just new stickers).

For the exact changes about puzzles/logos, see https://github.com/cubing/wca-documents/commit/402333c8078e9e57d79b45ecc258ea8cbafaf2df

In particular, the puzzle rules will now forbid cubes that have multiple colors of plastic. That means your center, edges, and corners have to be the same color of plastic, and the two-color-plastic FangShis will no longer be allow.

Thick tiles and engraved/embossed logos are no longer allowed. Such puzzles are now less popular, and there are also a lot more alternatives than when this was originally allowed (for example, everyone had a Megaminx with thick tiles back then).

Rules are also more specific about where logos may be placed, but they are officially allowed on 2x2x2 now.

 

[ThomasJE]

In particular, the puzzle rules will now forbid cubes that have multiple colors of plastic. That means your center, edges, and corners have to be the same color of plastic, and the two-color-plastic FangShis will no longer be allow.

Why? They give no advantage.

 

[Lucas Garron]

Why? They give no advantage.

Yes, that's a fair point. However, we get a *lot* of questions about whether certain plastic patterns are allowed, which requires judgment of "advantage" instead of simple rules.

Everyone has access to puzzles of a single color plastic (nearly all puzzles come this way by default), so this is not an unreasonable requirement. A few people might need to change puzzles, but then everyone should be fine. I know that some people prefer certain patterns, but no one really *needs* them.

 

[ThomasJE]

Yes, that's a fair point. However, we get a *lot* of questions about whether certain plastic patterns are allowed, which requires judgment of "advantage" instead of simple rules.

Everyone has access to puzzles of a single color plastic (nearly all puzzles come this way by default), so this is not an unreasonable requirement. A few people might need to change puzzles, but then everyone should be fine. I know that some people prefer certain patterns, but no one really *needs* them.

No one really *needs* custom logos, but they're allowed.

 

[Lucas Garron]

No one really *needs* custom logos, but they're allowed.

A lot of competitors use them for identification, which is a legitimate need. (Custom plastic colors also help with identification, but fewer cubers use that.)

In addition, many popular puzzles come with a logo imprinted on a sticker, and forbidding logos would require them to buy new stickers just to use the cube. In contrast, few cubes come with multiple colors of plastic.

 

[AmazingCuber]

[WCA Regulations 2014] Logos

I don't fully get this. So are logos allowed on 4x4 and 6x6? Were the changes mentioned in the OP made?

 

[SenileGenXer]

In particular, the puzzle rules will now forbid cubes that have multiple colors of plastic. That means your center, edges, and corners have to be the same color of plastic, and the two-color-plastic FangShis will no longer be allow.

This is awful. Is that regulation targeted at the fangshi alone?

I suggest everyone protest the unjustifiable loss of their freedom by exercising it until the last minute. Bring you two-tone fangshi and use it in competition until April 1st. Even if it's not your fastest cube a little visible protest is in order. There was no valid and objective reason for this rule.

 

[kcl]

This is awful. Is that regulation targeted at the fangshi alone?

I suggest everyone protest the unjustifiable loss of their freedom by exercising it until the last minute. Bring you two-tone fangshi and use it in competition until April 1st. Even if it's not your fastest cube a little visible protest is in order. There was no valid and objective reason for this rule.

No. I see no issue with the rule. What's the point? I find them ugly anyway.

 

[TDM]

No. I see no issue with the rule. What's the point? I find them ugly anyway.

For me, it's my only non-57mm cube, so I'd have to either buy another cube or use a bigger cube for OH, even though it gives me, as well as anyone else using it, no advantage. But a logo on a 2x2 would, as you could identify a piece at the back just by one sticker.. So I can't see why the two-colour mini ShuangRen isn't allowed but 2x2 logos are.

 

[kcl]

For me, it's my only non-57mm cube, so I'd have to either buy another cube or use a bigger cube for OH, even though it gives me, as well as anyone else using it, no advantage. But a logo on a 2x2 would, as you could identify a piece at the back just by one sticker.. So I can't see why the two-colour mini ShuangRen isn't allowed but 2x2 logos are.

Touché.. I'm forgetting the fact that if I only had a two color fangshi, I'd be majorly pissed if I had to buy a new one for this.

 

[SenileGenXer]

No. I see no issue with the rule. What's the point? I find them ugly anyway.

Exactly what is the point? Why restrict competitors choices if it isn't even about advantages?

You may not like fangshi and think they are ugly. I think recognition a little poorer. Does it follow that yours, mine and everyone else's choices and expressions should be restricted? If you or I are getting screaming times on a two-tone fangshi the night before competition why do we have swap out the caps to match the body? Who does that appease?

The Rubik's cube 2.0 is a black body with colored caps on each external piece. The centers are literally two different colors of plastic. Is that disallowed now?

If I get creative at shapeways and make custom caps for a 54.5mm fangshi with six different colors using them like tiles will it be allowed?

 

[Dene]

This is awful. Is that regulation targeted at the fangshi alone?

I suggest everyone protest the unjustifiable loss of their freedom by exercising it until the last minute. Bring you two-tone fangshi and use it in competition until April 1st. Even if it's not your fastest cube a little visible protest is in order. There was no valid and objective reason for this rule.

I think you're being unfair and inconsiderate because I take it you like the fangshi. You need to try and view this from the perspective of delegates, who constantly have to deal with the difficulties of people pressing the rules with all sorts of weird cube modifications and adjustments. It's not easy for us to moderate every single alternative and come to consistent decisions throughout the world. We have a hard enough time as it is, and it's not as if it's difficult to just get a cube with the same damn colour plastic, to make our lives easier.

Instead of being difficult and coming up with ways to make the lives of the volunteers a misery, how about thinking about those who put in an enormous effort and sacrifice to make cubing competitions an enjoyable experience for everyone. You might also think about how you can help and contribute to what we do, so the community, and cubing in general, can continue to grow.

 

[SenileGenXer]

I think you're being unfair and inconsiderate because I take it you like the fangshi.

I think the new rules are unfair and inconsiderate and I have my suspicions of why they are that way. Lucas Garron's comments on Github proposing this rule sometimes go to nakedly inconsiderate.

Now this is a sport that needs rules. Most people can and will comply even for a bad rule. Most people can comply. It has been said quite a lot to sell this. That doesn't mean all people can or should comply.

If you really want to sell this explain why this rule exists. Just because you can make people follow the rule doesn't explain it's existence. The desire to have a simpler set of rules does not explain this rule.

As a delegate you surely did not freak out and get suspicious when you see a two-tone Fangshi. But now you're going to have to enforce and explain this bad rule. Again and again. It doesn't stop weird cube mods it just specifies the colorations allowed.

If you want respect don't assume someone questioning the rules does does so out of "butthurt".

 

[Dene]

Lucas Garron's comments on Github proposing this rule sometimes go to nakedly inconsiderate.

I'm not sure which comments you are referring to; by my understanding, Sarah Strong was the first person to specifically bring up the fangshi. But regardless, the comments of the WRC are generally based on discussions with the delegates; for the most part they are simply a public voice for other discussions that have gone on in private. (Mostly I'm saying it is unfair to single out any one person, so don't go blaming Lucas for this).

As a delegate you surely do not freak out and get suspicious when you see a two-tone Fangshi.

Actually, there has been dispute amongst delegates about the fangshi (I should point out this cube is just one obvious case amongst others). And as a delegate, the first thing we do when we see something out of the ordinary is "freak out and get suspicious". You clearly have no idea what it's like for a delegate, constantly dealing with weird cubes and things throughout competitions.

But now you're going to have to enforce and explain this bad rule. Again and again. It doesn't stop weird cube mods it just specifies the colorations allowed.

Enforcing this "bad" rule will be considerably easier than enforcing the previous rule, so that's a good thing. Explaining rules to people is another thing delegates have to spend a lot of time doing every competition, so that won't be anything new. And while it won't stop people doing other weird modifications to their cubes, it will prevent us having to deal with instances of mixed-colour-plastics from now on, making our lives easier. You don't appear to have been around for all that long, so you wouldn't be aware of some of the history around here... once upon a time "hybrid" cubes were all the rage, and for delegates they caused all sorts of difficulties, and many inconsistent decisions from different delegates around the world. This is what we're trying to prevent in an attempt to improve the situation within the WCA in general.

If you want respect don't assume someone questioning the rules does does so out of "butthurt".

I don't care about your respect, but I still haven't seen an actual reason from you other than "but but but it's my best cube and I wanna use it ". If you actually have a good reason, you're doing an extremely good job of making it out as if you don't have one.


I've tried to give you some insight into the world of making the WCA work; perhaps you should take the time to think about it and consider what I've said this time. What we do isn't easy, stop being so unnecessarily difficult.

 

[SenileGenXer]

I don't care about your respect, but I still haven't seen an actual reason from you other than "but but but it's my best cube and I wanna use it ". If you actually have a good reason, you're doing an extremely good job of making it out as if you don't have one.

I've tried to give you some insight into the world of making the WCA work; perhaps you should take the time to think about it and consider what I've said this time. What we do isn't easy, stop being so unnecessarily difficult.

Your are not listening. I didn't say any of that. The fangshi is currently my second best cube and not what I would think of for competition. Damm it travels well and I could just change caps. I asked who would that appease.

What I resent is choices being taken away. Misplaced burdens. If making delegates lives easier and being "consistent" - if arming them with rules and authority to deny contestants is what cubing is all about this is a great rule.

When I have asked why this was done you have said it is all about you and the volunteer job you seem to resent. Sorry if questions seem to exacerbate that. That doesn't mean questions should stop.

For other people you have just disqualified their main cube. You seem to have done this to make your job easier. I think there might be some resentment coming from a different direction.

I am new around here. I have never been to a competition. If you have a hierarchical/judgemental mind those two statements just invalidated everything I said about this.

 

[Kit Clement]

Your are not listening. I didn't say any of that. The fangshi is currently my second best cube and not what I would think of for competition. Damm it travels well and I could just change caps. I asked who would that appease.

What I resent is choices being taken away. Misplaced burdens. If making delegates lives easier and being "consistent" - if arming them with rules and authority to deny contestants is what cubing is all about this is a great rule.

When I have asked why this was done you have said it is all about you and the volunteer job you seem to resent. Sorry if questions seem to exacerbate that. That doesn't mean questions should stop.

For other people you have just disqualified their main cube. You seem to have done this to make your job easier. I think there might be some resentment coming from a different direction.

I am new around here. I have never been to a competition. If you have a hierarchical/judgemental mind those two statements just invalidated everything I said about this.

I don't intend to be hierarchical, but if you haven't attended a competition, it's hard to understand the decisions that need to be made on a consistent basis around the world. Consistency in decisions is one of the hardest parts of delegating. In China, there were actually delegates that would not allow the weilong (might have been another puzzle, not sure) because of the asymmetrical cuts. We've cleared this up since, but inconsistencies like this appear often.

What has been incredibly hard to make consistent are judgments about hybrids/swapped caps. We have had many interpretations of this situation for years, and the multi color fangshi only complicates these issues.

It is indeed a negative consequence that some will not be able to use their cubes, but we believe that ample time had been given to make an adjustment. But every time a multi colored cube is used in competition, delegates have to check that all the color differences are symmetrical, as it is plausible for s competitor to swap fangshi parts. Our time is better spent attending to other matters that may prevent a major incident rather than checking multi colored cubes.

 

[Dene]

When I have asked why this was done you have said it is all about you and the volunteer job you seem to resent. Sorry if questions seem to exacerbate that. That doesn't mean questions should stop.

I love doing what I do, but it's good having some more regulations in place to make my life easier when it comes to it. The thing is, there's really only one question for you to ask, namely "why ban these cubes?" I've answered that question, and yet you persist seemingly without any thought given to what I've said.

What I resent is choices being taken away. Misplaced burdens. If making delegates lives easier and being "consistent" - if arming them with rules and authority to deny contestants is what cubing is all about this is a great rule.

There are a ton of things currently banned by the regulations. But this is what the regulations are for, and regulations are absolutely necessary. You seem to have no idea what it's like managing an organisation. Look at any sport in the world; there will always be tons of rules and regulations. This is necessary to bring everyone in line with each other, to maintain fair and equal conditions throughout the world in every case. We have to make decisions all the time about changes to the WCA's regulations to ensure that fairness and equality are maintained consistently in every competition in every country in the world. Sometimes this means making hard choices and banning things, but sometimes it is necessary to take action. We will always consider everything we can think of before making decisions like this, for example, the consideration that only a small minority of people use multi-coloured cubes. The decision to ban the stickerless dayan cubes had more of an impact than this decision...

I am new around here. I have never been to a competition. If you have a hierarchical/judgemental mind those two statements just invalidated everything I said about this.

You've got it all wrong. I'm just trying to give you a perspective that you obviously aren't aware of (might I say, through no fault of your own). But because you aren't aware of our perspective, you have to put in that extra thought and consideration to try and see where we are coming from. Until you know what it's like for us, you can't really continue to argue against the case I have put forward.


What it comes down to is, these sorts of cubes create unnecessary difficulty for delegates and competitors around the world. There is absolutely no need for anyone to have to use these cubes over any of the other cubes out there (which, I should point out, are largely considered superior). So to anyone unhappy with this decision: get over it and move on... you probably won't care anymore come April anyway.

 

[Yuxuibbs]

I'm going to ask here since it wasn't really answered in the other thread.

3a4) All pieces of a puzzle (ignoring stickers/tiles) must be made of the same consistent material (e.g. a single color of plastic).

Would having black 57mm caps on a primary fangshi be legal (caps are black so everything on the outside looks like a black cube but the internals are all primary)?

What about the Moyu Lingpo? All the internals are primary plastic and the outside is white/black/etc