Blindsolving Failure Thread

[joey]

4/10 at the Shaastra Cube Open.
I forgot to fix parity on 3 of the cubes, another cube had 2 flipped edges and ran out of time on the last cube. Damn the 10 min rule

10 minute rule? Wasn't there a stopwatch available in case the stackmat competition timer hit its limit?

10 minutes per cube.

I still don't understand. It was multi-blind right? Do you mean they imposed a limit of 10 times 10 minutes? (1 hour 40 minutes)? Does that mean I should not compete in 3x3 BLD if I cannot do memo and execution within 10 minutes? Or was it just a limit imposed by Shaastra Cube Open?

In Multi BLD, you have a limit of 10 minutes per cube.

If you were to compete in a competiton, you could have 1 attempt, but if you went over the time limit (which is usually less than ten minutes), you may not get another attempt.

 

[rjohnson_8ball]

If solving one 3x3 cube BLD, am I right to say there is not a 10 minute limit imposed? The rules say 10 minutes per cube for multi-BLD but the rules don't mention a limit for single BLD. It takes me more than 20 minutes for single BLD, so it would be a waste for me to go to a competition if I cannot do well under 10 minutes. One goal I have is to simply get some WCA stats, however bad they might be, so I can give friends a link to my official stats. I hope to have a BLD success in the stats.

EDIT: Regarding next 3 responses by tim, Ron, Mike Hughey -- I will work on getting down to at least 7 minutes for a single 3x3 BLD. I've done 9 successful solves (+ about 10 close, 5 chaos), but I am not making much progress improving my time. I guess I need a couple dozen successes? Not sure I can make Westchester NY tournament, Nov 22 08. My 5x5 is often over 10 minutes too.

 

[tim]

If solving one 3x3 cube BLD, am I right to say there is not a 10 minute limit imposed? The rules say 10 minutes per cube for multi-BLD but the rules don't mention a limit for single BLD. It takes me more than 20 minutes for single BLD, so it would be a waste for me to go to a competition if I cannot do well under 10 minutes. One goal I have is to simply get some WCA stats, however bad they might be, so I can give friends a link to my official stats. I hope to have a BLD success in the stats.

Yes, there's no time limit for single bld. But most competitions set the time limit to 10 minutes. So you really should try to get down to maybe 7-8 minutes (which isn't too hard).

 

[Ron]

Hi RJohnson,

The standard time limit for events is 10 minutes.

A1a) The time limit is 10 minutes, or less/higher if announced before the event.

This time limit is just a guideline. It helps to protect competition organizers against obstructing competitors. But in a competition with lots of time and some slower competitors an organiser may set a higher time limit, like 20 minutes.

For multiple blindfolded the time limit is more than a guideline, it is a true limit. It is not allowed to use more than 20 minutes for 2 cubes blindfolded.

Have fun,

Ron

 

[Mike Hughey]

If solving one 3x3 cube BLD, am I right to say there is not a 10 minute limit imposed? The rules say 10 minutes per cube for multi-BLD but the rules don't mention a limit for single BLD. It takes me more than 20 minutes for single BLD, so it would be a waste for me to go to a competition if I cannot do well under 10 minutes. One goal I have is to simply get some WCA stats, however bad they might be, so I can give friends a link to my official stats. I hope to have a BLD success in the stats.

Yes, there's no time limit for single bld. But most competitions set the time limit to 10 minutes. So you really should try to get down to maybe 7-8 minutes (which isn't too hard).

I'd like to repeat what Tim said - it isn't too hard. Hang in there and you'll get it. My first solve was something like 45 minutes, but it didn't take that long to get down to 7-8 minutes. Any method you use should be fine for that kind of time - it's just a matter of practice to get to that speed.

 

[Karthik]

You haven't been practicing BLD at all lately, have you? I've caught up to you now - you were once so much better than me! It looks like you've gotten a bit faster at speedcubing, though.

No. Not practicing at all. I had forgotten lots of my images. And switched to M2 just a month ago. And when was I better than you?!!

Anyway, nice to see you back here, Karthik!

Thanks. I will try and be more regular now.

 

[blah]

Probably my worst attempt in any BLD event by far

I tried BLD-ing the Megaminx I got yesterday. Took about 30 minutes to memorize (I use a very very very crappy system), did the first edge 3-cycle, and just inexplicably got lost at the next 3-cycle - I just couldn't visualize a dodecahedron in my head, so I can't picture what setup moves I needed to do It felt very bad, like I was handicapped or just plain dumb or something. Then I just removed the blindfold after 10 minutes of doing nothing and figuring out how to do the damn setup moves and giving up.

Another bad thing about the memorization is that I took almost half the time finding out where the last damn short cycles were, in both edges and corners I really couldn't find a systematic way to check which pieces have been "used" and which are not, so I just did random checking till I hit something. Bad.

Bad.

 

[Mike Hughey]

Wow, blah, you're brave. I still haven't actually tried a megaminx BLD solve. The only "system" I've come up with has the same problem you're describing - it's too hard to keep up with the setup moves in your head. I tried a couple of sighted solves a number of months ago, and even while watching, I kept confusing the setup moves and messing up the puzzle. In order to be reliably successful at megaminx at a reasonable speed, I need a better way to handle the setup moves. Or practice a lot so they're easy to see.

And Karthik, about middle of the year or so, you were regularly getting close to 2:00 solves while I was still more like 2:30, and even though you were usually behind me by a cube or so on multiBLD, your times were a good 10 minutes or more faster than mine. So I thought of you as being substantially better than me, which was disappointing to me because I remember when you were just starting and I was already doing big cubes BLD. Also, for some strange reason I thought you were already using M2 (for some reason I thought you went to M2 at about the same time as you came up with your image list), so I was surprised to see you just switched.

 

[AvGalen]

I finally got a second chance to try my favorite event!

7x7x7 multiBLD: 0/2 = DNF, 2:59:49.04 (1:33:25 memorization)

The first cube was off by just 4 pieces - 2 central edges flipped and 2 inner + centers. The centrals were wrong because I just missed seeing a flipped piece when memorizing! I don't know what caused the 2 + centers to be wrong - must have been a bad commutator.

The second cube was off by 28 pieces (4 corners, 4 centrals, 17 wings, and 3 obliques), but I'm pretty positive that all of them were due to me forgetting to undo a B' setup move. So I think it was just a single mistake!

Disappointing, but it feels like I was close. And I managed to break the 3 hour barrier! My retention of memory was perfect.

I will get this someday! I have to, so I can justify buying a third 7x7x7. (If I'm lucky, I'll own the world's largest collection of 7x7x7's someday.)

I am making the same offer as before: You can use my 7x7x7's for multi and if you make it you can keep it. I think the next time we will meet will be when you can do 7x7x7 2/2 "regularly" so I will bring at least 2 extra 7x7x7's with me.

 

[Mike Hughey]

I am making the same offer as before: You can use my 7x7x7's for multi and if you make it you can keep it. I think the next time we will meet will be when you can do 7x7x7 2/2 "regularly" so I will bring at least 2 extra 7x7x7's with me.

You are most generous - thank you. Next time I'll have to make sure I don't need to drive 8 hours the day afterwards, so I can actually try it.

 

[Stefan]

I still haven't actually tried a megaminx BLD solve. The only "system" I've come up with has the same problem you're describing - it's too hard to keep up with the setup moves in your head. I tried a couple of sighted solves a number of months ago, and even while watching, I kept confusing the setup moves and messing up the puzzle. In order to be reliably successful at megaminx at a reasonable speed, I need a better way to handle the setup moves. Or practice a lot so they're easy to see.

Why don't you just learn setup moves for all cases?

 

[joey]

Isn't it only 60? And like 5-6 moves maximum? Just guesstimating.

 

[blah]

I still haven't actually tried a megaminx BLD solve. The only "system" I've come up with has the same problem you're describing - it's too hard to keep up with the setup moves in your head. I tried a couple of sighted solves a number of months ago, and even while watching, I kept confusing the setup moves and messing up the puzzle. In order to be reliably successful at megaminx at a reasonable speed, I need a better way to handle the setup moves. Or practice a lot so they're easy to see.

Why don't you just learn setup moves for all cases?

@Stefan: Was that what you did?

Another question, it's not possible to do edge comutators (by this I mean 8-move commutators) on a Minx, right? I stared at it and messed around with it for hours yesterday but still couldn't find a way to do a "slice" move properly (something like R L'). And with this, the number of moves in a commutator suddenly becomes a lot more than 8 and it becomes much harder. So I just used a 2-gen 3 cycle, and I'm not even sure if it's optimal. For corners I used commutators though. Do you have any documentation on how you did the Minx BLD?

@Mike: I'm gonna try it again soon. This time more prepared, so I don't waste half an hour memorizing and end up doing nothing

 

[Stefan]

@Stefan: Was that what you did?

No. But it's what I'd do now.

Back then I solved two pieces at a time using a three-cycle. Setting up/down two pieces concurrently was very hard, especially the corners. But now I'd just solve one piece at a time which leads to far fewer cases and no concurrency, making it much much easier.

And I think depending on how you count, eight moves edge commutators are either impossible or trivial. I don't have a megaminx here right now but here's a 3x3 alg which might work on it as well. Or probably at least something similar exists:
U' R' U' R U R U R U' R'
Note that it's *good* that two of the three moved edges are close together (they can play the alternating buffers for fake swapping) and one is farther away (it can play the target and being away leads to shorter setups).

For corners it's maybe better to use true swaps, with the side effect being another swap. Like what you get with (R' U R U')*3.

 

[blah]

And I think depending on how you count, eight moves edge commutators are either impossible or trivial. I don't have a megaminx here right now but here's a 3x3 alg which might work on it as well. Or probably at least something similar exists:
U' R' U' R U R U R U' R'

Trivial? A little lost here As for the alg you gave, doesn't work on a Minx. Isn't that just a conjugated U perm with cancellations (on a 3x3x3)? At least that's how I see it...

Note that it's *good* that two of the three moved edges are close together (they can play the alternating buffers for fake swapping) and one is farther away (it can play the target and being away leads to shorter setups).

Fake swapping, hmm, sounds nice. Never thought of such a concept before You haven't mentioned much details yet, but I think it's something like alternating between clockwise U perm and anticlockwise U perm on a 3x3x3 (to shoot to a fixed target position), am I right?

On a side note, I think I just came up with quite a nice memory system for the Minx, I think. But I'm gonna try it out first before I reveal it If it's too lousy I'll just ditch it and no one will ever get to know about it

 

[Stefan]

Trivial?

Yes:
[ (L' R) F2 (L R'), U ]

As for the alg you gave, doesn't work on a Minx. Isn't that just a conjugated U perm with cancellations (on a 3x3x3)? At least that's how I see it...

I made it as a combination of two F2L algs, (U' R' U' R U) and (R U R U' R'). Or rather (F' R' F' R F) and (R F R F' R') if you have F2L on bottom.

Fake swapping, hmm, sounds nice. Never thought of such a concept before You haven't mentioned much details yet, but I think it's something like alternating between clockwise U perm and anticlockwise U perm on a 3x3x3 (to shoot to a fixed target position), am I right?

Yes, that's the concept. I used the term "fake swapping" a few times recently, the first time I posted the concept was in 2005:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/blindfoldsolving-rubiks-cube/message/595
I think it's somewhat well-known, but not used much if at all. Bernett might've used it in winning 5x5bld at RWC2007, but I'm not sure. For the NxNxN cubes I'd say M2 and its variations are superior, but for megaminx edges and for the pyraminx crystal it'd still be my method of choice.

 

[Ville Seppänen]

Almost really fast 5x5x5 BLD. I was halfway through on wing edges (I solve them last) when I just couldn't recall my memo. So I stopped the timer and saw that everything else was solved and only those forgotten pieces were left. The time was 9:35.17. Memo was 3:57. Without memo problems it would've been about 10:30 I think. I will get a good time soon.

 

[Zava]

3x3 multi 3/5 in 19:16
the second and the third cubes were wrong, one by 2 edges (orientation, of course), the other by a 3 cycle of corners. Memo was around 8 minutes, around the third cube my frineds arrived from lunch, and started annoying me, so it could have been at least 3 minutes faster :/

 

[dangitsmatthew]

Noo! I was so close to solving my first 3x3 using the Classic Pochmann method from badmephisto's tutorial. The only thing wrong was that 3 corners in the right places were oriented incorrectly. (It looks like the Sune OLL case)

 

[Ville Seppänen]

DNFd 5x5, off by 2 X-centers. Time: 11:33.13 and 4:33 memo. I think I found a way of remembering everything better. Next time..